NBA 2017: Take That For Data - MVP Edition

[DunderMifflin]

1 minute ago, Rhom said:

Was it though?  They were together when LeBron was at the height of his Miami days.  The Spurs were still milking the last bit from Duncan.  And the Warriors were on the rise. 

That's a bit like saying Stockton and Malone were two MVP caliber players on the same team and didn't do much...

Stockton never really sniffed mvp though. Perhaps he should have but he was never a serious candidate

[Rhom]

1 minute ago, DunderMifflin said:

Stockton never really sniffed mvp though. Perhaps he should have but he was never a serious candidate

No, but they were both Hall of Famers.  I think the comparison is apt.  Perhaps there are better from that era, but I think my overall point stands.

Could also go with Barkley joining Hakeem on the Rockets.  (I really wanted them to make the Finals one of those years other than the Jazz.  Thought it would be neat for Jordan to have beaten six different opponents in the Finals.)

[DunderMifflin]

7 minutes ago, Rhom said:

No, but they were both Hall of Famers.  I think the comparison is apt.  Perhaps there are better from that era, but I think my overall point stands.

Could also go with Barkley joining Hakeem on the Rockets.  (I really wanted them to make the Finals one of those years other than the Jazz.  Thought it would be neat for Jordan to have beaten six different opponents in the Finals.)

I see Lebron and Wade as a better duo than stockton and malone. Stockton/malone just maintained it for like 50 years. But lebron + wade was pretty sick for the shorter time it existed.

Now that I think about it Russ/Durant is a good comparison to Stockton/malone.

As great as stockton and Malone were together, the farthest they ever got was to the finals , which is all the Thunder ever got with Russ/Durant.

[Rhom]

45 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said:

I see Lebron and Wade as a better duo than stockton and malone. Stockton/malone just maintained it for like 50 years. But lebron + wade was pretty sick for the shorter time it existed.

Now that I think about it Russ/Durant is a good comparison to Stockton/malone.

As great as stockton and Malone were together, the farthest they ever got was to the finals , which is all the Thunder ever got with Russ/Durant.

That's my point.  Stockton/Malone would have won a title if not for Jordan.

Durant/Westbrook/Harden got to the Finals ahead of schedule and then had the misfortune of being great during the ascendancy of some of the best players of all time.

[DunderMifflin]

2 hours ago, Rhom said:

That's my point.  Stockton/Malone would have won a title if not for Jordan.

Durant/Westbrook/Harden got to the Finals ahead of schedule and then had the misfortune of being great during the ascendancy of some of the best players of all time.

Idk maybe, stockton never got near an mvp award though. Probably rightfully so since he and malone together could only get to the finals later in their tenure. They were two great players that stayed together and got knocked out of the playoffs numerous times before they even got to Jordan. 

Durant has and Westbrook looks to get one, that's two MVPs that played years together. Perhaps one or both of them shouldn't be mvps if even both of them together couldn't get it done.

For the record, if I was building a team I'd choose Durant over Westbrook. I'd be super happy with either one of course but I think Durant is the better player overall. Actually I'd probably be advocating Durant for mvp this year if I didn't feel salty about him jumping ship to GS.

[Slurktan]

So only the second game 6 won by the Raps.. .ever.  But I'm glad we put them away even if we blew a lead.

[sperry]

4 hours ago, DunderMifflin said:

Probably something to do with that organization maybe. 3 mvp tier players drafted. Only one left.  2 of them spent a fair amount of time together with less results than you'd expect from 2 mvps on the same team.

Thunder quickly went from the model of how to rebuild a struggling franchise via the draft to "wtf happened????"

 

Ended up being really frustrating.

 

2012, made the finals, lost to a Heat team that was just better, and Harden left. 2013 they were the best team in West, then Beverly took out Russell's knee on a cheap shot in the first round of the playoffs, and they lost the next round. 2014 they lost to a really good Spurs team in the WFC. 2015, Durant got hurt.  2016, they choked it away to the Warriors.

[DunderMifflin]

1 hour ago, sperry said:

 

Ended up being really frustrating.

 

2012, made the finals, lost to a Heat team that was just better, and Harden left. 2013 they were the best team in West, then Beverly took out Russell's knee on a cheap shot in the first round of the playoffs, and they lost the next round. 2014 they lost to a really good Spurs team in the WFC. 2015, Durant got hurt.  2016, they choked it away to the Warriors.

Gotta b frustrating I remember after that 2012 finals appearance it just seemed like this team was going to be at the top for at least a decade. Like they seemed like they were going to be the Patriots if the nba where every year they were going to be a threat to win it all.

 

 

I've always heard the story that the Thunder had the money to keep Harden but they used the money to keep ibaka instead. If that's true what a colossal fuck up. And they still lost ibaka anyway.

[Jaime L]

The sneaky best thing about the playoffs thus far, IMO, is the Raptors vs. Bucks troll game.  Barney vs. Bambi memes. Now this. 

[Jaime L]

Friday was everything I wanted from the NBA. John Wall putting up a 42/8 in a road, close-out game 6 making virtually every play down the stretch when things got tight. And finally vanquishing his feisty, surprisingly good antagonist Dennis Schroder. It felt like the kind of performance where a young star finally is bringing all his considerable gifts to bear at the moment his team most needed. And Beal was awesome too (31 points, super efficient). Wizards had, clearly, 2 of the 3 elite players in the series and pretty satisfying to see that trump card overwhelm the bench and defensive disparities that really made it a tight series. 

And so now we get the perfect Round 2 slate:

Celtics vs. Wizards
Cavs vs. Raptors
Spurs vs. Rockets
Warriors vs. Jazz/Clippers (at this point hope it's Jazz, but not sure it really matters)

Just can't believe how quickly Celtics/Wizards is starting. Game 1 is 36 hours after both teams closed out their first round series. Whatever, this could be really fun. Hope all the bad blood and intensity of the regular season proves to just be prologue. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

34 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

Friday was everything I wanted from the NBA. John Wall putting up a 42/8 in a road, close-out game 6 making virtually every play down the stretch when things got tight. And finally vanquishing his feisty, surprisingly good antagonist Dennis Schroder. It felt like the kind of performance where a young star finally is bringing all his considerable gifts to bear at the moment his team most needed. And Beal was awesome too (31 points, super efficient). Wizards had, clearly, 2 of the 3 elite players in the series and pretty satisfying to see that trump card overwhelm the bench and defensive disparities that really made it a tight series. 

And so now we get the perfect Round 2 slate:

Celtics vs. Wizards
Cavs vs. Raptors
Spurs vs. Rockets
Warriors vs. Jazz/Clippers (at this point hope it's Jazz, but not sure it really matters)

Just can't believe how quickly Celtics/Wizards is starting. Game 1 is 36 hours after both teams closed out their first round series. Whatever, this could be really fun. Hope all the bad blood and intensity of the regular season proves to just be prologue. 

Wanted to see the Cavs have to go through both the Wiz and the Celts.  I feel like both those teams are better than the Raptors presently. I can see the Cavs handling the Raps in 5 and the Celts and Wiz wearing each other down in a long set. I hope it doesn't shake out that way, but it seems likely.

Spurs v Rockets should be good. Two contrasting styles clashing there. I think the Warriors would much rather see the Clips, but they should be able to handle the Jazz. 

[DunderMifflin]

Spurs and Rockets should be the main event. Or they just make Harden look like the Westbrook of the 2nd round.

Wizards Celtics has good drama potential especially if theres some bad blood.

I'd like to see what the Jazz can do against the Warriors. Maybe they can win a game or two and make it intetesting. They are a team on the rise, Hayward and Gobert are legit underrated stars borderline superstars. Gobert might be the best center in the league. Certainly the best defensive. Hes making Deandre Jordan look bad. 

Cavs vs Raptors seem like an uninteresting afterthought to me unless you are a fan of one of these teams. Lebron is always gonna put on a show so there is that but for me its all about what he's going to do in the finals at this stage of his career.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Perhaps im guilty of skim reading but I would strenuously disagree with opinions questioning whether Nash deserved his MVP's, Nash had four 50/40/90 seasons (noone else has achieved more than two) as well as just missing a few other seasons. Putting him in the elite efficiency only a few players in history have achieved. And that amazing shooting efficiency wasnt his strongest suit, he was an even more valuable playmaking point guard than a shooter. Nash if anything, was extremely under rated. In todays NBA, he'd be the best attributes of a combined Chris Paul and Steph Curry.

He desrved his MVP's imo. The 50/40/90 club-https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/50–40–90_club

[Relic]

1 hour ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

 In todays NBA, he'd be the best attributes of a combined Chris Paul and Steph Curry.

Lol, NO. Nash couldn't play a lick of defense (unlike CP3), and he didn't have the ability to take guys off the dribble like Curry does. Both Curry and Paul are also stronger and faster than Nash. I'm not trying to take away from what Nash did (altho i WOULD take away one of his MVPs) but saying he is the the best of CP3 and Cutty combined is CRAZY TALK. 

[Slurktan]

11 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Wanted to see the Cavs have to go through both the Wiz and the Celts.  I feel like both those teams are better than the Raptors presently.

Based on what?

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

3 hours ago, Slurktan said:

Based on what?

Mostly from what I've seen in the playoffs. I don't see a lot of Eastern Conference ball, so it's not based on much, granted.

[Jaime L]

24 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Mostly from what I've seen in the playoffs. I don't see a lot of Eastern Conference ball, so it's not based on much, granted.

I think the two things the Raptors have that the Wizards and Celtics don't is defense and versatility. They have the best chance of the teams in the East at slowing down Cleveland's unstoppable offense. 

I'm really curious how this series goes. Cleveland swept the Pacers but every game was close and the Cavs still haven't shown an ability to defend anyone. Now they move up a level in weight class. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

3 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

I think the two things the Raptors have that the Wizards and Celtics don't is defense and versatility. They have the best chance of the teams in the East at slowing down Cleveland's unstoppable offense. 

I'm really curious how this series goes. Cleveland swept the Pacers but every game was close and the Cavs still haven't shown an ability to defend anyone. Now they move up a level in weight class. 

That makes me feel a bit better as a Cavs hater.

I trust your assessments more often than not. This gives me hope.

[DireWolfSpirit]

9 hours ago, Relic said:

Lol, NO. Nash couldn't play a lick of defense (unlike CP3), and he didn't have the ability to take guys off the dribble like Curry does. Both Curry and Paul are also stronger and faster than Nash. I'm not trying to take away from what Nash did (altho i WOULD take away one of his MVPs) but saying he is the the best of CP3 and Cutty combined is CRAZY TALK. 

Heres an hour or so of crazy talk. Notice how HE NEVER takes AI or any of his peers off the dribble........except for a hundrend or so times. He was better and more valuable than any point guard in the league during his prime. 

 

[Calibandar]

Hoping the Clippers beat Utah.

Second round projections:

Golden State over Clippers in 4

San Antonio over Houston in 6

Cavs over Raptors in 5

Celtics over Wizards in 6

Spurs vs Rockets interesting, but not a series I think I will love watching. 

Celtics I think have now found their groove and their mental toughness may be too much for the Wizards, that is my feeling. Team quality will win over the fact that Washington may have both the best and secondbest player in this series ( maybe I'm selling Thomas short here, but I'd take Wall and Beal over him by a small margin).