The Mountain's Children(Spoilers All!)

[Maester Saramello]

On 4/28/2017 at 8:40 AM, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Gregor also drank huge amounts of Milk of the poppy because of head aches. Anyone who has ever had surgery and has had to take strong pain killers knows it's hard to.."finish" on opiates. 

Then why bother even committing the rape if there's no climax? He would be teasing himself with no relief. I understand that being unable to climax would be immensely frustrating and possibly contribute to his temper but still, he can get it up but not climax? Seems wierd. And there must be a time when he is not high on the poppy and rapes to take his mind off the pain, does he release then? 

[leonardof]

On 27/04/2017 at 8:55 PM, Maester Saramello said:

So the Mountain has hit the genetic lottery(physically at least). Cleganes have a history of being big but this guy takes the cake. 8 feet tall and not skinny or sickly with every bit of it muscle. 

I'll get to the point. He has raped and pillaged half of westeros and doubtless have caused bastards. My question is are they all going to be hulks like he will? Or is it more of a Maegor deal where he can't have any living children?

Fortunately for the realm, abortion doesn't seem to be prohibited, even if it not openly done.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

3 hours ago, Maester Saramello said:

Then why bother even committing the rape if there's no climax? He would be teasing himself with no relief. I understand that being unable to climax would be immensely frustrating and possibly contribute to his temper but still, he can get it up but not climax? Seems wierd. And there must be a time when he is not high on the poppy and rapes to take his mind off the pain, does he release then? 

I don't know how Milk of the Poppy works in GRRM world. It's all pretty complicated from a real world clinical aspect. You can still very much get aroused while on a considerable amount of opiates. You can achieve an erection and sometimes even climax while on them. However what opiates do is basically numb parts of your body and desensitize certain body parts thus killing the pain. Opiates also cause constipation as well. I knew men in college that would purposely take smaller amounts of opiate type pain killers so they could last longer during the act because of the desensitizing effects. While on a large amount of opiates like Gregor was on it would be pretty difficult to reach a climax but he'd still be able to have sex or rape women therefore torturing them, the poor women don't care or probably notice if he doesn't climax. Perhaps sometimes he'd take smaller amounts of Milk of the Poppy when he knew he'd be in the position to torture women, I really don't know.

How this all relates to the thread is in my mind I don't think Gregor has been spreading his seed as much as some would think because of his addiction to a strong opiate that he drinks so much of all the time. Perhaps his Poppy addiction is also a reason he has no children and has killed his wives. Rather then blaming himself for not being able to finish the act that would birth him children he kills his wive so they can't spread rumors of his short comings. I mean he hasn't tried to remarry since the books have started, as far as I know anyway.

[PrinceHenryris]

Assuming the Mountain is fertile, I doubt we'll see a bunch of eight-foot monsters running around Westeros.

In the stories, we're introduced to some large men (The Baratheon boys, The Hound, The Strongboar etc.), and some true giants (Dunk, Hodor, the Umbers etc.), but Gregor is an outlier compared to them.

I've long believed that Gregor has a pituitary tumor.  It would explain both his gigantic size and violent headaches.

Some have argued that Gregor couldn't have achieved his martial prowess with a tumor like that, but I would counter that George Muresan grew to 7'7" before he had a pituitary tumor removed and had a relatively successful NBA career.

So, my guess woul be that if Gregor fathered children they'd probably be large and strong, but not come close to approaching the Mountain's size, maybe 7' tops.

[Yucef Menaerys]

On 4/28/2017 at 0:55 AM, Maester Saramello said:

So the Mountain has hit the genetic lottery(physically at least). Cleganes have a history of being big but this guy takes the cake. 8 feet tall and not skinny or sickly with every bit of it muscle. 

I'll get to the point. He has raped and pillaged half of westeros and doubtless have caused bastards. My question is are they all going to be hulks like he will? Or is it more of a Maegor deal where he can't have any living children?

Interesting....why do you think Maegor didn't have any children because he was big? or that bigger people are more likely to be sterile?

[Lady Blizzardborn]

On 4/28/2017 at 7:32 PM, zandru said:

<snip

Why not both? Dunc really got around. Other evidence is one of Bran's weirwood visions, of a hugely tall knight with a young woman (apparently Old Nan when she was young) under the Winterfell weirwood. Then there was Brienne seeing Duncan's shield in an armory back in Tarth.

Because GRRM said there is "a" descendant of Dunk in the series. That rather implies there's only one.

Allegedly Old Nan when she was young. It's unlikely that she was the only young woman in Winterfell at the time when Dunk and Egg visited.

Brienne has more than the shield. There's a reference to her being thick as a castle wall (or something very close to it) as well.

 

On 4/29/2017 at 0:22 AM, Renly's Banana said:

<snip

They're both apparently descendant from Dunk. 

See above.

[Renly's Banana]

@Lady Blizzardborn
He said there would be a descendant of him in Feast, not that there was only one descendant in general. And the "proof" for Brienne being his descendant is just as flimsy as Hodor. I thought it was pretty obvious from the vision Bran saw; not sure why else it would be included if it wasn't him. 

[Renly's Banana]

On 4/29/2017 at 5:50 PM, Damon_Tor said:

It's pretty clear that he doesn't get laid much, though.

You've only seen a tiny fraction of Dunk's life when he was in his late teens. The guy lived a long life and traveled everywhere. 

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

You Ser are not lying. 

On April 28, 2017 at 8:40 AM, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Gregor also drank huge amounts of Milk of the poppy because of head aches. Anyone who has ever had surgery and has had to take strong pain killers knows it's hard to.."finish" on opiates. 

 

[Universal Sword Donor]

9 hours ago, Renly's Banana said:

You've only seen a tiny fraction of Dunk's life when he was in his late teens. The guy lived a long life and traveled everywhere. 

He also was in the KG for probably half of it (233 - 269(. 

[Dorian Martell's son]

On 4/29/2017 at 6:30 PM, Maester Saramello said:

Then why bother even committing the rape if there's no climax? He would be teasing himself with no relief. I understand that being unable to climax would be immensely frustrating and possibly contribute to his temper but still, he can get it up but not climax? Seems wierd. And there must be a time when he is not high on the poppy and rapes to take his mind off the pain, does he release then? 

You misunderstand the fundamental root of sexual violence. It is about power, not physical pleasure. A rapist does not rape women to get off. Gregor does it because he is incredibly cruel and loves to inflict pain and suffering.  

[Renly's Banana]

5 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

He also was in the KG for probably half of it (233 - 269(. 

Dunk died in 259, and was born sometime between 191 to 193 (at least going by the wiki). Assuming Dunk became a Kingsguard at 233 with the crowning of Egg, that means he lived for 42 years before he became celibate. 

That's more than enough time to unsheathe your sword in every port and town. 

[JonCon's Red Beard]

On 29/4/2017 at 0:55 AM, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Climax would be the better word then finish I guess. I'll try to be as clinical as possible with the wording. A person on a heavy dose of opiates can have a very hard time ejaculating. Don't believe me look it up.

 

 

 

Ok, I checked because I like to check stuff...

If you're a man, the pain-killing medications known as opioids may do more than relieve pain -- they may also put a damper on your sex life.

A new study found that men who were prescribed medications for erectile dysfunction or low testosterone levels were more likely to be taking opioid (narcotic) medications for chronic back pain.

"People who have persistent pain problems need to know that a potential side effect of long-term opioid use may be erectile dysfunction," said lead study author Dr. Richard Deyo, a clinical investigator for the Kaiser Permanente Center for Health Research in Portland, Ore. "This is not a well-known potential side effect among patients, and it should be considered when thinking about treatment."

(source)

So, it's not that he couldn't finish: he couldn't even start D:

 

 

[Universal Sword Donor]

5 minutes ago, Renly's Banana said:

Dunk died in 259, and was born sometime between 191 to 193 (at least going by the wiki). Assuming Dunk became a Kingsguard at 233 with the crowning of Egg, that means he lived for 42 years before he became celibate. 

That's more than enough time to unsheathe your sword in every port and town. 

Yeah I messed up some of the math but he was also a virgin until he was at least 20.

[Tom Cruise]

43 minutes ago, JCRB's Honeypot said:

Ok, I checked because I like to check stuff...

If you're a man, the pain-killing medications known as opioids may do more than relieve pain -- they may also put a damper on your sex life.

A new study found that men who were prescribed medications for erectile dysfunction or low testosterone levels were more likely to be taking opioid (narcotic) medications for chronic back pain.

"People who have persistent pain problems need to know that a potential side effect of long-term opioid use may be erectile dysfunction," said lead study author Dr. Richard Deyo, a clinical investigator for the Kaiser Permanente Center for Health Research in Portland, Ore. "This is not a well-known potential side effect among patients, and it should be considered when thinking about treatment."

(source)

So, it's not that he couldn't finish: he couldn't even start D:

 

 

It's that kind of frustration that could lead to one chopping a victim in two!

[Lady Blizzardborn]

22 hours ago, Renly's Banana said:

@Lady Blizzardborn
He said there would be a descendant of him in Feast, not that there was only one descendant in general. And the "proof" for Brienne being his descendant is just as flimsy as Hodor. I thought it was pretty obvious from the vision Bran saw; not sure why else it would be included if it wasn't him. 

First, I didn't say there was "proof" for Brienne. I said there was more evidence. The shield is one piece. Her size and appearance another. Her being described as "thick as a castle wall" (just like Dunk) yet another.

Hodor has...we'll he's a big guy.

I didn't say it wasn't Dunk in the vision. I said the girl might not be Old Nan.

Including Dunk in a vision without him being related to Hodor would fall under realism. Not everything Bran would see through the trees would be important. Though it would be very, very interesting if Egg's dragon egg got left behind at Winterfell. It was white, with green swirls. And IIRC the snake-like thing Summer say flying away from the ruins of Winterfell looked white to him.

[The Fattest Leech]

22 hours ago, Renly's Banana said:

@Lady Blizzardborn
He said there would be a descendant of him in Feast, not that there was only one descendant in general. And the "proof" for Brienne being his descendant is just as flimsy as Hodor. I thought it was pretty obvious from the vision Bran saw; not sure why else it would be included if it wasn't him. 

Actually, it really is not that flimsy for Brienne to be Dunkn's egg, especially if you read the D&E novellas. (not saying you have or have not)

Also this:

Spoiler

 

According to Vanity Fair, Martin appeared at a convention in Baltimore called Balticon to read aloud to those in attendance a new chapter from his forthcoming book The Winds of Winter. During his time in front of the crowd, the author announced that Brienne of Tarth is the descendant of Ser Duncan the Tall.

  http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/05/31/game-of-thrones-george-rr-martin-confirms-brienne-of-tarth-has-a-famous-ancestor

And this from the main source of the info:

http://thewertzone.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/george-rr-martin-confirms-game-of.html

And Werthead is an active member on this forum if you want to ask him directly.

 

ADDED the spoiler for just incases.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

10 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

You misunderstand the fundamental root of sexual violence. It is about power, not physical pleasure. A rapist does not rape women to get off. Gregor does it because he is incredibly cruel and loves to inflict pain and suffering.  

Very much this.

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

5 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

First, I didn't say there was "proof" for Brienne. I said there was more evidence. The shield is one piece. Her size and appearance another. Her being described as "thick as a castle wall" (just like Dunk) yet another.

Hodor has...we'll he's a big guy.

I didn't say it wasn't Dunk in the vision. I said the girl might not be Old Nan.

Including Dunk in a vision without him being related to Hodor would fall under realism. Not everything Bran would see through the trees would be important. Though it would be very, very interesting if Egg's dragon egg got left behind at Winterfell. It was white, with green swirls. And IIRC the snake-like thing Summer say flying away from the ruins of Winterfell looked white to him.

It took me a long time to read and othe dunk and egg books but I agree with you about the shield especially. I didn't catch the brienne=thick as a castle wall I won't lie. That's really cool.