Coolbeard the Exile Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 On 2017-04-29 at 4:26 AM, Bowen Marsh said: What evidence do we have that they want to cross the wall and attack the seven kingdoms? They left Craster alone so we know they don't inherently hate man. They attacked the wildling village in the prologue but we don't know who started that fight. Is it possible that the wildlings under Mance violated some sacred pact? If you were outside looking in and Mance is the King Beyond the Wall, wouldn't you consider the wildlings under his leadership a kingdom? You would. What if Mance killed one of the Others and they're out to settle the score with him? He's the king of the wildlings so they attacked the wildlings under his "banner". Craster was not a subject of Mance so they left him alone. What kind of purpose or story telling would it be if they just wanted to chill north of the wall? Impossible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon_Tor Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 9 hours ago, Darkstream said: Perhaps it is necessary for there to be a solid physical structure in order to place or maintain the magic barrier on or within. Sure, maybe. 9 hours ago, Darkstream said: But there are tales of the wall being gradually built up by the nights watch over the years. 8000 year old stories are not reliable. Sam Tarly even talks about how unreliable their history is. It's discussed in other contexts too: it's a running theme. 9 hours ago, Darkstream said: Are you proposing that the men of the nights watch who originally manned the wall were just guarding a magical barrier, and didn't notice that it eventually turned into an ice wall? A man enters the Night's Watch at age 20 100 years after the Long Night. There's a layer of frost 12 inches thick on the North face of the Night Fort. It shrinks a bit during the summer and grows again during the winter. It's his job to clear the ice off critical walkways. When he dies at age 40 the layer of frost is 18 inches thick. A man enters the Night's Watch at age 20 500 years after the Long Night. There's a nine-foot pile of snow on the North face of the Night Fort. It shrinks a bit during the summer and grows again during the winter. It's his job to shovel snow off of critical walkways. When he dies at age 40 the pile of snow is twelve feet high. A man enters the Night's Watch at age 20 1000 years after the Long Night. There's a 30 foot tall wall of snow on the North face of the Night Fort. It shrinks a bit during the summer and grows again in the winter. It's his job to shore up the tunnel and make sure it won't collapse. When he dies at age 40 the wall is 40 feet tall. Which of these men had something to notice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 10 hours ago, Damon_Tor said: 8000 year old stories are not reliable. Sam Tarly even talks about how unreliable their history is. It's discussed in other contexts too: it's a running theme. Sure, however information is usually lost or altered; It doesn't appear out of nowhere. If there are records of the Watch building up the Wall, you can be pretty confident that there is a degree of truth to them. Quote A man enters the Night's Watch at age 20 100 years after the Long Night. There's a layer of frost 12 inches thick on the North face of the Night Fort. It shrinks a bit during the summer and grows again during the winter. It's his job to clear the ice off critical walkways. When he dies at age 40 the layer of frost is 18 inches thick. A man enters the Night's Watch at age 20 500 years after the Long Night. There's a nine-foot pile of snow on the North face of the Night Fort. It shrinks a bit during the summer and grows again during the winter. It's his job to shovel snow off of critical walkways. When he dies at age 40 the pile of snow is twelve feet high. A man enters the Night's Watch at age 20 1000 years after the Long Night. There's a 30 foot tall wall of snow on the North face of the Night Fort. It shrinks a bit during the summer and grows again in the winter. It's his job to shore up the tunnel and make sure it won't collapse. When he dies at age 40 the wall is 40 feet tall. Which of these men had something to notice? What about the original men, who at the age of 20 manned the Wall nothing out in the middle of a frozen wasteland, and by the time they were 40, were guarding a 6" wall? Do you not think that the next generation of men to the Wall would hear about this? And why is there 400-500 year gaps between your examples? What about the guy who is ready to die, who is training the new recruits, and is telling him about the stories that the man who trained him told? A scenario like you propose, would not go unnoticed. And really, as like the scenario I was discussing up thread, this would be a complete asspull on the author's part. GRRM may not give you the full, or accurate story in the books, but he does give you hints, and he doesn't strait out lie. If you can provide some text that would either hint at this, or show that it is remotely possible, I would give at least some consideration to what you propose. However, as of now, all you have provided is a random idea plucked out of thin air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dragon Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 On 4/28/2017 at 10:26 PM, Bowen Marsh said: What evidence do we have that they want to cross the wall and attack the seven kingdoms? They left Craster alone so we know they don't inherently hate man. They attacked the wildling village in the prologue but we don't know who started that fight. Is it possible that the wildlings under Mance violated some sacred pact? If you were outside looking in and Mance is the King Beyond the Wall, wouldn't you consider the wildlings under his leadership a kingdom? You would. What if Mance killed one of the Others and they're out to settle the score with him? He's the king of the wildlings so they attacked the wildlings under his "banner". Craster was not a subject of Mance so they left him alone. I have a few questions. If Craster is not a subject to Mance, then why would the Others assume the first set of wildlings are (from the prologue). The wildlings don't actually wave banners, so what evidence is there for this idea? Wait, I get it now, you are Bowen Marsh and so you hate everything to do with Jon and his friends. That is pretty funny. Jon is not a favorite of mine either, but I think Daenerys will take his place in Westeros pretty soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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