can we really call jon an oath breaker for sleeping with ygritte?

[snow is the man]

He kinda had too to some degree and how many men of the nights watch go to that brothel in moles town. And it was both known and allowed by the leadership of the nights watch. Also the vows say that he should take no wife and father no children which he didn't do either. The other stuff is open to interpation.

[LindsayLohan]

I think by Wildling customs he may have taken Ygritte as his wife.  But that's another discussion.

[Lion of the West]

5 hours ago, snow is the man said:

He kinda had too to some degree and how many men of the nights watch go to that brothel in moles town. And it was both known and allowed by the leadership of the nights watch. Also the vows say that he should take no wife and father no children which he didn't do either. The other stuff is open to interpation.

If so then the part of obeying the lord commander is also open to interpretation. No where in the oath is a lord commander mentioned nor that you need to do what he says.

[TheDnDPodcast]

Jaime Lannister taught us that if you take all oaths literally then any man can be called oathbreaker. 

In regards to Jon Snow, if you only look at his Nights Watch oath and the situation with Ygritte, I would say that he is not an oathbreaker.  He didn't marry Ygritte or have any children with her.   

But when he decided to leave the wall with a force of men to get involved with the affairs at winterfell he did become an oathbreaker.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Just now, TheDnDPodcast said:

Jaime Lannister taught us that if you take all oaths literally then any man can be called oathbreaker. 

In regards to Jon Snow, if you only look at his Nights Watch oath and the situation with Ygritte, I would say that he is not an oathbreaker.  He didn't marry Ygritte or have any children with her.   

But when he decided to leave the wall with a force of men to get involved with the affairs he then became an oathbreaker.

"Not getting involved" isn't in the oath, either.

[TheDnDPodcast]

Fair point.

[Yucef Menaerys]

6 hours ago, snow is the man said:

He kinda had too to some degree and how many men of the nights watch go to that brothel in moles town. And it was both known and allowed by the leadership of the nights watch. Also the vows say that he should take no wife and father no children which he didn't do either. The other stuff is open to interpation.

We could charge him with conspiracy to commit oathbreaking because he had sexual relations with ygritte which could've resulted in birth which in turn would also break the specific oath of "I shall father no children"

[Ralphis Baratheon]

I think the way "they" see it is it's one thing to sleep with a whore in moles town it's another to sleep with a Wildling who is attempting to kill members of the Night's Watch in a up coming raid. The Half Hand wasn't there to speak for Jon so it's Jon's word alone.

Then you have him letting the Wildings through the Wall and the whole thing with Stannis.

Then him planing on going to Winterfell was probably the last strike in a lot of the Black Brother's minds.

You have to put yourself in the shoes of the NW for a moment.

[shadin]

3 hours ago, TheDnDPodcast said:

Jaime Lannister taught us that if you take all oaths literally then any man can be called oathbreaker. 

In regards to Jon Snow, if you only look at his Nights Watch oath and the situation with Ygritte, I would say that he is not an oathbreaker.  He didn't marry Ygritte or have any children with her.   

But when he decided to leave the wall with a force of men to get involved with the affairs at winterfell he did become an oathbreaker.

I agree on all points. 

It depends on how you look at it and which oath had more weight at the time he made the "decision" to sleep with Ygritte. Was it worth it to break his vow of celibacy (although strictly speaking their oaths don't prohibit intercourse) to keep his oath to Qhorin? I think yes. 

At the end of the day, it boils down to who sits in the jury box.

[300 H&H Magnum]

11 hours ago, snow is the man said:

He kinda had too to some degree and how many men of the nights watch go to that brothel in moles town. And it was both known and allowed by the leadership of the nights watch. Also the vows say that he should take no wife and father no children which he didn't do either. The other stuff is open to interpation.

Sleeping with Ygritte is a misdemeanor.  It's a minor offense.  Sending his Wildlings to steal Arya out of the Bolton family is a very serious offense deserving of execution. 

[cgrav]

7 hours ago, LindsayLohan said:

I think by Wildling customs he may have taken Ygritte as his wife.  But that's another discussion.

That's about the only possible infraction I see. He didn't father any children.

[ThePrinceThatKnewNothing]

I wouldn't say he broke an oath. If he married her by Westerosi custom and not Wilding custom then yeah. But if he broke an oath then so do the brothers who go off to the moles town brothel, and it's widely known that brothers of the watch do that 

[snow is the man]

7 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

I think the way "they" see it is it's one thing to sleep with a whore in moles town it's another to sleep with a Wildling who is attempting to kill members of the Night's Watch in a up coming raid. The Half Hand wasn't there to speak for Jon so it's Jon's word alone.

Then you have him letting the Wildings through the Wall and the whole thing with Stannis.

Then him planing on going to Winterfell was probably the last strike in a lot of the Black Brother's minds.

You have to put yourself in the shoes of the NW for a moment.

He was helping stannis but if he had really said no and you have to leave stannis could have killed them all very easily. Almost all his men were seasoned vets while the nights watch is not and are vastly outnumbered. I see the neccesity for marching on winterfell but that would be one to struggle with. But again what choice did he have. They know ramseys reputation and would he listen to him when he said hey we don't have arya or theon here what would he do.

[snow is the man]

3 hours ago, 300 H&H Magnum said:

Sleeping with Ygritte is a misdemeanor.  It's a minor offense.  Sending his Wildlings to steal Arya out of the Bolton family is a very serious offense deserving of execution. 

technically he didn't. Also he didn't know she was at winterfell. Remember she was supposed to have escaped by then given mel's vision.

[Nevets]

It is worth noting that he had to sleep with Ygritte in order maintain his cover as a deserter.  Had he refused, it is likely that the Wildlings would have been convinced that he will still a loyal NW man and killed him.

3 hours ago, 300 H&H Magnum said:

Sleeping with Ygritte is a misdemeanor.  It's a minor offense.  Sending his Wildlings to steal Arya out of the Bolton family is a very serious offense deserving of execution. 

When he sent his Wildlings, he thought that Arya had already escaped the Boltons, and a discreet rescue could be made.  Mance went to Winterfell on his own volition, and there is no reason to believe that Jon even knew about it..

[snow is the man]

6 hours ago, Nevets said:

It is worth noting that he had to sleep with Ygritte in order maintain his cover as a deserter.  Had he refused, it is likely that the Wildlings would have been convinced that he will still a loyal NW man and killed him.

When he sent his Wildlings, he thought that Arya had already escaped the Boltons, and a discreet rescue could be made.  Mance went to Winterfell on his own volition, and there is no reason to believe that Jon even knew about it..

This I agree with. Mance was supposed to find her on the road. Nowhere did jon think or say that "hey he is gonna go to winterfell" until he gets the pink letter the idea never showed up. So finding a girl who is supposedly dying on the road according to mel's vision is a big step from sending mance to to winterfell to steal ramseys wife.  This idea that mance needing six spearwives means he knew he was going to winterfell makes no sense. Does six wildling men walking on a road suddenly not draw attention. Women would draw less and not be viewed a hostile.

[devilish]

On 2017-4-30 at 6:43 AM, snow is the man said:

He kinda had too to some degree and how many men of the nights watch go to that brothel in moles town. And it was both known and allowed by the leadership of the nights watch. Also the vows say that he should take no wife and father no children which he didn't do either. The other stuff is open to interpation.

no because he knew nothing about anything really

[Dorian Martell's son]

On 4/29/2017 at 10:43 PM, snow is the man said:

He kinda had too to some degree and how many men of the nights watch go to that brothel in moles town. And it was both known and allowed by the leadership of the nights watch. Also the vows say that he should take no wife and father no children which he didn't do either. The other stuff is open to interpation.

That is the whole point. Yes he did, but he had reasons. The whole point of the books is that the world is not black and white, but morally grey 

[LindsayLohan]

We need to take into account just how hot Ygritte was/is.  Anyone can keep their morals when confronted with a Lena Dunham-type.  But what happens when you're all alone with the Wildling Lindsay Lohan?  There's probably fine print in the oath:

1.  I vow to blah blah blah.... unless she's an 8.0 or better.