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NFL 2017 - The Afterdraft


Howdyphillip

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1 minute ago, DanteGabriel said:

If Kaepernick has somehow failed to explain the logic of his protest, I think it may have something to do with the cognitive abilities of his audience.

Somewhat relatedly, how should Kaepernick have protested? 

The short answer from most people is that he shouldn't have.

There is a very strong group of people - especially compassionate conservatives - who believe that people should have a right to protest, but they should ensure they do so without inconveniencing anyone even a little bit. So if they are protesting at sports things? Sorry, that's way too much of an inconvenience to their enjoyment of the game. They don't want to be aware of CTE, or of the various rape coverups, or the murders, or any of the various bullshit - they want to just enjoy their game. 

So if Kaep wanted to protest, he should have done so long after he stopped playing, in the offseason, and hopefully out of sight of as many cameras as possible. Otherwise people might get slightly bothered, and we can't have that. 

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1 minute ago, Kalbear said:

Yes, I don't think it's very surprising that they're not hiring him. He's directly advocating against the owners for the most part. it is disappointing and sad, but it isn't any more surprising than Damore getting fired from Google. 

The objections as to why they're not hiring him are bullshit cowardice however.

Well, I think you are maybe giving Kap credit for thinking more deeply about Fidel Castro than he has, I don't really think he's advocating for a communist revolution, because if he is, then he is actually as anti American as his critics say, and I don't think he really means to be antiAmerian...I doubt he knows much about Cuban history or Fidel Castro's revolution.  It was a superficial, silly and damaging decision, based on some superficial out of context information, as you laid out, universal health care...  Misguided and a historical.

He also is not a very good QB.  Now, if you asked me who was more deserving of a job as a not very good QB, the dog killer or Kap, I would take Kap 100 times out of 100.  But,then I didn't think Vick deserved a second chance, and I recall at the time, that anyone who didn't think he deserved a second chance was also accused of racial bias.....

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5 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Eh, you use your platform, whatever that might be. In his case it happened to be professional sports.

And, we're back to that whole protesting on the job might make your employer upset, especially if your protest alienates the customers...which apparently it did....and so, some consequence would be expected.

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12 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

And, we're back to that whole protesting on the job might make your employer upset, especially if your protest alienates the customers...which apparently it did....and so, some consequence would be expected.

Sure, it's not unexpected. Doesn't mean it's not also cowardly bullshit. If one QB on a high profile team goes down early this year, how much you want to bet someone puts him on the roster? Pretty sure some owner will break from their "principles" if he's the only option.

 And as you and others mentioned earlier in the thread, if he were a better QB, he'd already have been hired. So let's not pretend that this blackballing is principled. 

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2 hours ago, Maithanet said:

Wilson had what was pretty unequivocally his best season as a passer in 2015, with 68% comp, 34 tds, 8 ints, 110 rating.  Those are awesome numbers.  His numbers in 2016 were down, but that was mostly because he had a lot of nagging injuries (in spite of never missing a start).  If you saw any of the Seahawks midseason games, he was obviously not himself, but he was still decent even without his signature elusiveness.  He put up a career high in yardage in 2016, but his efficiency went down and interceptions went up. 

WIlson also helps the Seahawks rushing offense tremendously.  Seattle went from #3 in the league in FO rushing offense in 2015 with a healthy Wilson down to #22 in 2016 with Wilson hobbling around.  Both years the O line was very poor (for example, FO has them as #25 in pass protection in 2016, up from #30 in 2015). 

On the whole, there's really no reason to think that Wilson is regressing.  He was still a good quarterback in 2016, even playing injured and behind a terrible O-line.  Only a fool would argue that Wilson should be replaced with Kaepernick, or that bringing Kaep in as a backup would create some sort of "qb competition".  Wilson is a far better player.  In fact, if the Seahawks had Kaepernick last year, they might have been able to give Wilson a couple of weeks off so that he actually healed up, rather than sending him out all 16 games even when he was noticeably hobbling around. 

The Seahawks not signing Kaep strikes me as a pretty chickenshit move.  Kaep plays a similar style as Wilson, Seattle is one of the most liberal cities in the country, and the Seahawks saw firsthand last year how much a qb injury could set them back. 

Meanwhile, I have my rankings

Brady, alone at the top.

Rogers

Bressus

Wilson

Carr

Cam (healthy)

Ryan

Rapist

Mariota

Stafford

Rivers

Palmer

Bradford

Kirk

Crab leg thief Rapist

Daktacular

Culter

Tygod

Smith

Dalton

Wentz

Eli

Simieon

Flacco

McCown

Texans

San Francisco

Rams

Bortles

Bears

Browns

 

Yeah, Wilson's top-4 as far as I'm concerned.

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Just now, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Sure, it's not unexpected. Doesn't mean it's not also cowardly bullshit. If one QB on a high profile team goes down early this year, how much you want to bet someone puts him on the roster? Pretty sure some owner will break from their "principles" if he's the only option.

 And as you and others mentioned earlier in the thread, if he were a better QB, he's already have been hired. So let's not pretend that this blackballing is principled. 

Is there anyone, anywhere left in the U.S. who is under the impression that the NFL is principled?  But, if he would have a job if he were a bottom of the top tier/top of the second tier, instead of bottom of the second tier, top of the third tier....then the reason he's not been hired isn't racial bias, but it's the calculation of what he brings on the upside v. the downside.  And the calculation doesn't work in his favor.  Which is why he doesn't have a job.  He's also not that versatile, he can't be stuck in to any system.  Since so far the only system he has thrived in is the one that was run by Jim Harbaugh.  When the niners decided on 'let Kap be Kap' that was a fucking disaster of epic proportions.

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10 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

He also is not a very good QB.  Now, if you asked me who was more deserving of a job as a not very good QB, the dog killer or Kap, I would take Kap 100 times out of 100.  But,then I didn't think Vick deserved a second chance, and I recall at the time, that anyone who didn't think he deserved a second chance was also accused of racial bias.....

While he may not be that good of a QB, he's still an experienced QB that is getting passed over by people who have literally retired from pro football, from people who have never thrown an NFL pass, and for people who sound like Madden generated their name. 

 

8 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

And, we're back to that whole protesting on the job might make your employer upset, especially if your protest alienates the customers...which apparently it did....and so, some consequence would be expected.

What's interesting to me is the marked reaction of the NBA to protests and speaking out, which was nothing at allThe owners were fine with it, the players were told how they could protest and how they couldn't and stuck with those things, and the world didn't explode in a fire. The NBA champions didn't go to the white house as a team, and the world didn't end. In fact, they got credited for the most part. 

I think it's a smidgen more complicated than simply whether or not it might cause some pain for the customers; part of it, I think, is largely to do with what people's expectations are. 

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6 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

Meanwhile, I have my rankings

 

 

Yeah, Wilson's top-4 as far as I'm concerned.

I love that you either deliberately or inadvertently left out Luck. 

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What's the deal with Luck, speaking of football?  Have the Colts actually ruined him?  Will he play, again, too early, before he's healed and be ruined this year?  And did I miss the NLF massive penalty for Luck playing with all of those undisclosed injuries last year?  Oh, no, I forgot, that's only for the Patriots.  

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31 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I love that you either deliberately or inadvertently left out Luck. 

As far as I'm concerned, he's a non entity until I see that his arm works.

I will judge then, and if he's  fairly healthy I confidently put him at 5.

Unlike past years I noticed that after Breese there wasn't really anyone I would stand on the table for. Rus was the only guy I saw for whom I would trade any one non qb player to acquire, the rest max out at "really good, but not the franchise" for me.

I think all the guys who used to be in that second tier behind the top 4 are starting to fade and it makes the talent disparity really severe.

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31 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

And did I miss the NLF massive penalty for Luck playing with all of those undisclosed injuries last year?  Oh, no, I forgot, that's only for the Patriots.  

 Oh sweet Jesus, another fucking Pats fan? 

 http://s1336.photobucket.com/user/Lumpy67/media/EdelmanBlowsOffBrady_zpse35e1580.gif.html?sort=3&o=1670

 

/It must be rough lugging all those rings around.

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2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

The "real" issue is that you can't conduct a protest on the job, whatever your job may be, whatever the cause you are protesting about, and not expect a possibility of repercussions.  

And, nobody made him wear pig socks, or a Castro T shirt, or forced him to use Twitter.  

No, the real issue is racial injustice in the judicial system, something you've repeatedly dodged to discussed, and instead highlight meaningless red herrings, which was my point in the first place. So let me ask you, do you think it's an issue?

Also, Kaep did not violate a single rule. Keep that in mind. 

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

Okay, so he's advocating for revolution against capitalism and direct action against his capitalistic oppressors.  

And people are wondering why the billionaire boys club NFL isn't hiring him?  Now that is funny.

 

This comment highlights that you're not here to have a serious, honest, adult conversation. As does the last couple of pages of this thread.

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2 hours ago, Joe Pesci said:

Do you think it could also be that the casual fan who makes up a large portion of the fan base are just either uniformed or misinformed on the situation? Granted, there are going to be racists in every fan base of every sport, and racism definitely factors into Kaep's situation, but, for example, I'd guess that a sizable group of people saw the pig socks and passed judgement without knowing what issues Kaep was trying to shine light on or even bothered to look into it, and probably don't pay enough attention to the NFL to know that it's still an ongoing issue with him. I'm sure we all know plenty of people who are fans of the league who probably have no clue that any of this is even still going on with Kaep, because they aren't as dedicated to following the NFL as we might be.

 

I don't mean to be dismissive, but this doesn't really address my comment. My point was that the owners fear that their fan bases might be more racist than they'd like to believe, and that signing Kaep could lead to a lot of backlash. In essence the owners, or at least some of them, are actually insulting their own fans. 

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9 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

No, the real issue is racial injustice in the judicial system, something you've repeatedly dodged to discussed, and instead highlight meaningless red herrings, which was my point in the first place. So let me ask you, do you think it's an issue?

Also, Kaep did not violate a single rule. Keep that in mind. 

This comment highlights that you're not here to have a serious, honest, adult conversation. As does the last couple of pages of this thread.

That isn't the issue though.  You want it to be that objecting to Kap's various forms of protest is the same as objecting to the issue.  It' isn't.  Not all protests are created equal. Some are dumb.  Some are counter productive.  Some are ill advised.

It wasn't me who said that Kap's Castro T shirt was on message, I gave him credit for being stupid on that one...it was someone else who said that he, Kap wanted revolution against the capitalists and that is shirt reflected his actual beliefs about Castro and the U.S.

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4 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 Oh sweet Jesus, another fucking Pats fan? 

 http://s1336.photobucket.com/user/Lumpy67/media/EdelmanBlowsOffBrady_zpse35e1580.gif.html?sort=3&o=1670

 

/It must be rough lugging all those rings around.

You wouldnt understand the pain of 6 championships in 16 years.

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Full-time NFL officials?  Hmm...I'm intrigued!

Quote

Full-time game officials will be on the field this season.

The NFL will hire up to 24 full-time game officials for 2017 season from current crop of 124 officials, the league and the NFL Referees Association announced Wednesday.

The only thing I'm a little apprehensive of is that they will come from the current crop of 124 officials.  But, I suppose, that's the place to start as they're the most experienced and familiar with the rules, etc.  However, I don't think the refs in the NFL getting a bit younger and more diverse over time would be a bad thing.

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3 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

That isn't the issue though.  You want it to be that objecting to Kap's various forms of protest is the same as objecting to the issue.  It' isn't.  Not all protests are created equal. Some are dumb.  Some are counter productive.  Some are ill advised.

So what would be an effective form of protest? Some "thoughts and prayers" tweets when another black person gets killed for no good reason?

People are still talking about it and sensitive mediocre white people are still whining about it, so he certainly got attention and got the issue talked about by people who have led soft and squishy enough lives to think "politics" is just a thing that happens every four years. And he clearly has been reasonably good at explaining himself, because you're such an expert on what he thinks.

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