Vaedys Targaryen

Rhaegar's final words

103 posts in this topic

Something has been bothering me for a while and I would really like an answer to it; everyone says that Rhaegar died with a woman's name on his lips and everyone thinks that that name is Lyanna, but do we have it confirmed? Has GRRM confirmed that the name on Rhaegar's lips was "Lyanna" or..?

And if he has, where and when did he confirm it?

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Allegedly, it's been confirmed in the ASOIAF iPhone app. Which I don't have, so for me it's second-hand knowledge.

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I have the app and it does say that his last word was "Lyanna". George has also said the app is the carryover info that wouldn't fit in to the World book. I can find the interview later if you want. 

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1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I have the app and it does say that his last word was "Lyanna". George has also said the app is the carryover info that wouldn't fit in to the World book. I can find the interview later if you want. 

Yes, here is the quote.

Quote

Leading a large host to the Trident, Rhaegar met Robert in battle. Dueling on horseback in the fording of the river, Rhaegar was killed after giving Robert a serious wound. He would die with Lyanna's name on his lips. (Rhaegar Targaryen entry, WoI&F app) bold emphasis added

While confirming what many long suspected, this isn't really a great reveal. We have known from Ser Barristan and other sources that Rhaegar loved Lyanna. Less extensive are the sources that point to Lyanna loving Rhaegar. I think we really only have her reaction to Rhaegar's song, and the fact she dies holding flowers which seem remarkably like the crown of roses given to her at Harrenhal by the Crown Prince. Lyanna's feelings seems like the real mystery.

Which is how it should be. We still don't know if Lyanna went willingly with Rhaegar, or this really was a kidnapping. I think there is evidence that points to this being a rescue rather than a kidnapping - Dany's dreams of a rescue from her wedding to Hizdahr, just like Rhaegar did with his northern girl, being the strongest - but Martin hasn't given us the conclusive evidence yet. When he reveals Jon's parents, he likely will shine the light on what Lyanna wanted.

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The real question is why did he say her name. It's a bit melodramatic isn't it? that he said "lyanna" as he died. But I think he performed blood magic. 

When Stannis throws the leeches of edric storms blood in the fire he says the names of the other kings as melisandre has told him that's how he chooses the kings to die for each blood sacrifice. So when Rhaegar died his blood sacrifice would be his own. And if his last words were Lyanna did he choose her to die? Maybe he knew he needed to do that to assign jon as the prince that was promised. It would explain why all his songs were of love and doom or whatever.

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26 minutes ago, Nezza86 said:

The real question is why did he say her name. It's a bit melodramatic isn't it?

As is everything to their story. It fits.

Also, across the novels several characters have an opportunity to say some Last Words, and it isn't for any magic ritual, but purely for drama.

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Yeah but not many people have said a persons name while they're dying. Or none that I can recall. 

I just don't think George would make Rhaegar that much of a cliche. It's always stood out for me that he said a woman's name as he was dying. I'd put good money on it having significance that he did this. Maybe he had visions or prophetic dreams at summerhall and knew he would die at the trident.

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10 minutes ago, Nezza86 said:

Yeah but not many people have said a persons name while they're dying. Or none that I can recall. 

Lyanna.

Robb.

Jon.

And it's fitting that a member of Westeros' most famous star-crossed lovers duo would say with his last breath something sickeningly poetic.

10 minutes ago, Nezza86 said:

I just don't think George would make Rhaegar that much of a cliche.

Like excelling at everything he bothered to try? Like winning the greatest tourney ever held, against the best knights in the world, and crowning the Helen of Troy as Queen of Love and Beauty? Like facing the opposing army's commander personally on the battlefield, in a duel to the death?

Rheagar is very much of a cliché.

10 minutes ago, Nezza86 said:

It's always stood out for me that he said a woman's name as he was dying. I'd put good money on it having significance that he did this. Maybe he had visions or prophetic dreams at summerhall and knew he would die at the trident.

A man who knows he's going to die doesn't make plans for his political moves afterward.

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I always assumed it was Lyanna. Just more R+L=J bread crums. 

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Clique? For sure but GRRM loves playing with tropes, he doesn't abandon them completely.  

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4 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

George has also said the app is the carryover info that wouldn't fit in to the World book.

Seems pretty unlikely, doesn't it?

The app (Nov 2012) was released 2 years earlier than the book (Nov 2014).

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44 minutes ago, Nezza86 said:

Yeah but not many people have said a persons name while they're dying. Or none that I can recall. 

I just don't think George would make Rhaegar that much of a cliche. It's always stood out for me that he said a woman's name as he was dying. I'd put good money on it having significance that he did this. Maybe he had visions or prophetic dreams at summerhall and knew he would die at the trident.

 

Rhaegar represents the "old Westeros", the more romantic and "fantasy-like" side of it. So, it makes sense that he dies with this romantic action.

Also, I think the reason for him to say so is to "curse" Robert Baratheon, albeit not intentionally. To remind him the reason why he's fighting at all, and that he had the one thing he wanted but would never have. Robert often dreams of himself killing Rhaegar, so I'm sure he also remember that Rhaegar died with Lyanna's name on his lips. This reminds him that Rhaegar took her away. He pretty much accepts that himself as he acknowledges that Rhaegar "won". The simple mention of Lyanna's name was enough to destroy Robert for the rest of his life.

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I'd rhaegar had prophetic dreams then of course he could excel at everything he did. Except the last fight after which he couldn't see what would happen.

lyannas last words are "promise me Ned" not "Eddard stark", jons were "Ghost"? And Robs were "Grey Wind"? We don't know about ghost yet but grey wind died shortly after anyway, but I doubt it's blood magic unless you intend it, and maybe the royal blood is needed too. So I don't think GW died of blood magic. When stabbed burns the leeches he says each of their names in full in turn as he throws a leech into the fire.

its too poetic for me. And not important enough to be one of Danys vision from the house of the undying if he just said it because he loved her.

 

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"Rosebud."

"Apres moi, le deluge."

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Haha I like it. Lightbringer is actually Danys sled that willem darry made her out of the red door in braavos/dorne. 

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When was westeros romantic? Seems like it's always been brutal and depressing to be a peasant and controlling if you're a noble.

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, Snow Shrike said:

Seems pretty unlikely, doesn't it?

The app (Nov 2012) was released 2 years earlier than the book (Nov 2014).

I know there have been some app update along the way, maybe @Ran can bring some light to this? 

All I know is the author said the app information is the carryover information that would not fit in to the World book. Elio and Linda wrote about ~70,000 words for the World book, and George about ~300,000+/-, and George even says the app info was the extra info that could not fit in to the World book. Video link below. It should be linked to the 9 minute mark where he describes this process just a few seconds in.

so maybe, maybe not???

 
ADDING: The release of the app and book don't really have anything to do with when the information in total was conceived and written.
In this 2011 interview he talks about hoping to have the World book out in a year, making that 2012 for the book. Well, that got delayed, huh :dunno: Anyway, it would appear that the app info was available along with the World book info.
  • He also said he hoped to have the ASOIAF World Book out next year.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/5457/

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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8 hours ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Allegedly, it's been confirmed in the ASOIAF iPhone app. Which I don't have, so for me it's second-hand knowledge.

Forgive me. I'm just using your statement to state my opinion.

I do not have the IPhone app either. Nor have I bought the coffee table book. My thought is if Martin can't write a saga that makes sense he just isn't that great of an author.

Shite, all I need to do is think back to my youth and all those collectables that I thought were priceless.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Nezza86 said:

Lightbringer is actually Danys sled that willem darry made her out of the red door in braavos/dorne. 

Eureka!

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3 hours ago, Nezza86 said:

The real question is why did he say her name. It's a bit melodramatic isn't it? that he said "lyanna" as he died. But I think he performed blood magic. 

When Stannis throws the leeches of edric storms blood in the fire he says the names of the other kings as melisandre has told him that's how he chooses the kings to die for each blood sacrifice. So when Rhaegar died his blood sacrifice would be his own. And if his last words were Lyanna did he choose her to die? Maybe he knew he needed to do that to assign jon as the prince that was promised. It would explain why all his songs were of love and doom or whatever.

As readers, we first see this from Dany's vision in the House of the Undying, which makes it import for that prophecy. My analysis of the prophecy leads me to believe that the prophecy is about Dany's children, Rhaego, her child with a Greyjoy (that's still fuzzy) and her child with Jon Snow. The visions are in order, so the first vision in each quatrain is about Rhaego, the second is about little Greyjoy, the third is about her child with Jon. Rhaegar's last word appears in the Daughter of Death stanza, which also shows Viserys being "crowned" by Drogo and a man I believe is (f)Aegon (most think it's a Rhaego-that-would-have-been but I disagree).

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