Rhaegar's final words

[White Ravens]

If his last words are known to be a woman's name how could they be anything other than "Lyanna"?  The whole shit-show that was Robert's Rebellion revolves in large part around the love triangle of Robert/Lyanna/Rhaegar.  If he said any other woman's name it would be too big of a deal to be left unstated. 

[Darkstream]

8 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

My thought is if Martin can't write a saga that makes sense he just isn't that great of an author.

My thought is that this absurd remark doesn't make any sense. Might you want to explain how GRRM confirming something in the app, that is largely thought to be the case, equates to the story not making sense?

[devilish]

Im pretty sure his last words were "ouch"

[Vaedys Targaryen]

2 hours ago, devilish said:

Im pretty sure his last words were "ouch"

Pretty much this.

The reason why I'm asking is because Rhaegar is the most romanticised character in the series, not just by fans, but characters in the books as well.

Rhaegar received a fatal hit in the chest with a warhammer, which should render most people unable to speak. I don't know if there was fighting all around Robert and Rhaegar as they were fighting as well, or if it was simply the two of them fighting one on one with each other with the sldiers being spectators, but regardless, unless Rhaegar screamed Lyanna's name out loud, which I highly doubt he did, I doubt anyone heard him say anything.

Robert doesn't say anything about Rhaegar whispering Lyanna's name and if Rhaegar did indeed whisper her name, I think Robert would be the only one to hear it, as he was most likely the person who was in Rhaegar's closest proximity. But Robert doesn't say anything and still to this day thinks Lyanna was kidnapped and raped multiple times by Rhaegar, which leads me to believe that either Robert didn't hear Rhaegar, or Rhaegar didn't say anything at all.

 

All in all, the reason why I asked was because I think Rhaegar whispering Lyanna's name was something that was invented by some singer or someone else, because a lot of people believe that Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love and, as I stated previously, Rhaegar is the most romanticised character in the series. Not just by its fans, but also many characters in the books themselves.

[theblackdragonI]

1 hour ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

 

Robert doesn't say anything about Rhaegar whispering Lyanna's name and if Rhaegar did indeed whisper her name, I think Robert would be the only one to hear it, as he was most likely the person who was in Rhaegar's closest proximity. But Robert doesn't say anything and still to this day thinks Lyanna was kidnapped and raped multiple times by Rhaegar, which leads me to believe that either Robert didn't hear Rhaegar, or Rhaegar didn't say anything at all.

 

All in all, the reason why I asked was because I think Rhaegar whispering Lyanna's name was something that was invented by some singer or someone else, because a lot of people believe that Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love and, as I stated previously, Rhaegar is the most romanticised character in the series. Not just by its fans, but also many characters in the books themselves.

Couldn't agree more. There's no way anyone other than Robert would have heard that if they were fighting in a river. Whose Robert going to tell if it did happen? He would be in denial that Rhaegar loved Lyanna. 

It most likely was some singer or soldier who spread the tale and then people just stated it as fact. I'm trying to think of an example but nothing comes to mind. I'm sure there's some event in Westeros history that everyone believes happened a certain way while the truth was different. 

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

4 hours ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

Pretty much this.

The reason why I'm asking is because Rhaegar is the most romanticised character in the series, not just by fans, but characters in the books as well.

Rhaegar received a fatal hit in the chest with a warhammer, which should render most people unable to speak. I don't know if there was fighting all around Robert and Rhaegar as they were fighting as well, or if it was simply the two of them fighting one on one with each other with the sldiers being spectators, but regardless, unless Rhaegar screamed Lyanna's name out loud, which I highly doubt he did, I doubt anyone heard him say anything.

Robert doesn't say anything about Rhaegar whispering Lyanna's name and if Rhaegar did indeed whisper her name, I think Robert would be the only one to hear it, as he was most likely the person who was in Rhaegar's closest proximity.

And Robert would be the very last person in the world to share that. If he had heard it, he would be keeping it to himself. In Robert's story, Rhaegar is the blackest of villains.

Which isn't all that important anyway: if Rhaegar "whispered" Lyanna's name, then Bob probably genuinely didn't heard it over the cacophony of the Battle of the Trident.

3 hours ago, theblackdragonI said:

Couldn't agree more. There's no way anyone other than Robert would have heard that if they were fighting in a river. Whose Robert going to tell if it did happen? He would be in denial that Rhaegar loved Lyanna. 

It most likely was some singer or soldier who spread the tale and then people just stated it as fact.

It isn't accurate to talk about "inventing" and "spreading" a tale, if it's known to only one person in-universe, and that person has heard it thanks to a supernatural vision.

[Nezza86]

Yeah didn't Dany hear him say a woman's name in her vision from the house of the undying. Which of course could be a false vision, but that's not likely in my opinion. I thought as he was dying by a hammer blow to the chest he would probably have trouble saying her name, hence why she didn't hear it properly. 

[Clegane'sPup]

16 hours ago, Darkstream said:

My thought is that this absurd remark doesn't make any sense. Might you want to explain how GRRM confirming something in the app, that is largely thought to be the case, equates to the story not making sense?

Sorry you find my remark absurd. This is a fan site. I'm going to be polite. The best way I know to explain my statement is Martin's saga, books, need to make sense to the reader who is not frequenting a fan site, a wiki, an app or a fake history book.

[Darkstream]

53 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Sorry you find my remark absurd. This is a fan site. I'm going to be polite. The best way I know to explain my statement is Martin's saga, books, need to make sense to the reader who is not frequenting a fan site, a wiki, an app or a fake history book.

Well I apologize if you find my comment to be impolite, but that is my honest assessment. You are referencing something that had already been deduced by a majority of readers, strictly from reading only the main volumes of the saga, and before the app confirmed it was so. I don't see how this infers that the story doesn't make sense on its own.

I'm sorry, but I find your accusation that the main series doesn't stand up on its own to be completely unfounded. Perhaps you'd like to site an actual case wherein the story doesn't make sense without the bonus material?

Also, need I remind you that the saga is not complete? Many of the situations that you think might not make sense, still have an additional two volumes at the least, in which to be addressed.

[Clegane'sPup]

21 hours ago, Darkstream said:

Well I apologize if you find my comment to be impolite, but that is my honest assessment. You are referencing something that had already been deduced by a majority of readers, strictly from reading only the main volumes of the saga, and before the app confirmed it was so. I don't see how this infers that the story doesn't make sense on its own.

I'm sorry, but I find your accusation that the main series doesn't stand up on its own to be completely unfounded. Perhaps you'd like to site an actual case wherein the story doesn't make sense without the bonus material?

Also, need I remind you that the saga is not complete? Many of the situations that you think might not make sense, still have an additional two volumes - at the least - to be addressed.

I did not find your comment impolite.  I said I was going to be polite. I agree the saga is not complete. This is what I said in the post that you mentioned.

Quote

 

I do not have the IPhone app either. Nor have I bought the coffee table book. My thought is if Martin can't write a saga that makes sense he just isn't that great of an author.

Shite, all I need to do is think back to my youth and all those collectables that I thought were priceless.

 

There is no accusation. There is however an insinuation That insinuation is that Martin achieved mainstream attention when the you know what started producing the you know what. It is my opinion that that in order for Martin to achieve literary accolades his saga must stand on its own.

Originally I came to this site because I wanted to know who Jon Snow’s mother was/is. I stayed because sometimes there is interesting conversation.

No, I am not going to site nuttin.

[LindsayLohan]

"Shit, BOB, that hurt!"

[Byfort of Corfe]

15 minutes ago, LindsayLohan said:

"Shit, BOB, that hurt!"

This.

Actually with the cacophony of a Medieval type battle going on around, men and horse screaming, the clash of arms on armor and the fact that both Rhaegar and Robert were probably wearing helmets I doubt anyone could have heard someone else's' whispered last words.  Add in that Robert hit Rhaegar in the chest so hard that it killed him and I doubt that Rhaegar could have whispered anything, he was probably gasping for air.

[Darkstream]

1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

There is no accusation. There is however an insulation. That insulation is that Martin achieved mainstream attention when the you know what started producing the you know what. It is my opinion that that in order for Martin to achieve literary accolades his saga must stand on its own.

Alright, my mistake. I'm sure all who are not defenders of the you know what, by you know who, would agree with that sentiment.

[Victor Newman]

On 5/1/2017 at 3:44 AM, Vaedys Targaryen said:

Something has been bothering me for a while and I would really like an answer to it; everyone says that Rhaegar died with a woman's name on his lips and everyone thinks that that name is Lyanna, but do we have it confirmed? Has GRRM confirmed that the name on Rhaegar's lips was "Lyanna" or..?

And if he has, where and when did he confirm it?

It was not confirmed.  Just what sounded like a woman's name.  All we know for sure, he said "OUCH"

 

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Plottwist: he said "ARTHUR!".

[Hodor the Articulate]

13 hours ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

Rhaegar received a fatal hit in the chest with a warhammer, which should render most people unable to speak. I don't know if there was fighting all around Robert and Rhaegar as they were fighting as well, or if it was simply the two of them fighting one on one with each other with the sldiers being spectators, but regardless, unless Rhaegar screamed Lyanna's name out loud, which I highly doubt he did, I doubt anyone heard him say anything.

What is symbolism?

[Vaedys Targaryen]

17 hours ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

It isn't accurate to talk about "inventing" and "spreading" a tale, if its known to only one person in-universe, and that person has heard it thanks to a supernatural vision.

I am of the opinion that the visions Dany received from the Undying were flimsy and more symbolic and not really to be taken literal.

 

[SeanF]

I always thought his last words were "Lollys......I love you."

[wolfmaid7]

I theorized that it was a fish in the water near Rhaegar's head penning his final words.But in all seriousness this is something the singer's made up to romanticize the elements of the war.

The app quotes a Maester who said "Rhaegar would die with Lyanna's name on his lips."

And just like that we are back to square one and something darn near impossible to discern.

Rhaegar took a freaking  spiked warhammer from Robert freakazoid Baratheon.It caved in his chest.Standing or riding there is no "sinking to the knees."The only thing he could have said after being thrown backwards 4ft or so after being hit with such a force to cave his chest was "hhhhh" as in last breath.

Even if by some miracle he managed to whispher anything i doubt anyone heard a sound.Even if every soldier on both sides stop fighting and grabbed the popcorn nothing would be heard  above the cries from both sides at seeing that.People moving around.Horses neighing,or did they grab popcorn to?Nothing would be heard over  "The Great Ruby Run."This isn't people watching a movie, it was war.

Then there is Dany's vision which the Undying told her were of things that happened, never happened and never will.I'm paraphrasing.

Viserys fed Dany a story about Rhaegar dying in a river for the woman he loved.The singers story was Robert and Rhaegar fighting over a woman they both claimed to love? Like they would know.Its like the vision is saying yeah...no.

But there is also something strange about the wording "He whispered a woman's name."

I think it is important to notice where ambiguity occurs.As in occurring when there is no need.This is ACOK we the readers and more importantly the characters all ready know,or think they know what happened.Also they know the players involved.It would be ridiculous concealing the woman's name and it turned out to be Lyanna.Unless the context was

Rhaegar: "Lyanna?"

1.The ambiguity could be there to misdirect us.If that part of Dany's vision is true then the name whisphered is not who we think.Let's face it 98%of the fandom think Rhaegar whispered Lyanna.

2.That aspect of Dany's vision was the BS  romanticized version of the events . It never happened.

3.This darn near impossible was true and the big reveal was the name being Lyanna.Ehhhh very anticlimactic and not a great set up for that reveal seeing as book one and up till that vision kind of screwed the pooch there.

So,i have to go with "2"

Its one of those things that never was.As in no Mills and Boon moment.He just died wordless.Some singer just got carried away with his lyrics.

[JNR]

3 hours ago, wolfmaid7 said:

The app quotes a Maester who said "Rhaegar would die with Lyanna's name on his lips."

Actually, I'm not even sure it has the maester POV conceit.

The World book is written by Maester Yandel, yeah.  But the fapp, as far as I know, is supposed to have been written by... nobody.  It's just a big dump of raw information.  It certainly doesn't have Yandel's overwrought prose style.

You could compare the fapp to the book appendices.  Every one of the book appendices says Jon is Ned's bastard.  There's no POV given as the source of that information; it's just part of a big dump at the end of every book.

Are the book appendices always wrong about Jon's father, five times in a row?  We'll find out.  Is the app similarly and repeatedly wrong, about various things?  We'll find that out too. 

But it's definitely a mistake to assume they are both totally accurate -- "this is information GRRM wants us to have" -- and then build theories on that basis. 

And those who wonder how in the world anybody could possibly whisper anything after having their chests crushed in by Robert's warhammer... or how anybody else would ever hear that whisper in the middle of a pitched battle... are surely wise to ask.