Maester Saramello Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 I'll make this brief. It always disturbed me how everyone Bran asks about the 3 eyed crow responds that he is the Last Greenseer. Well...that cant be true because Bran. But...what if Bran is just a warg, and those green dreams were simply Bloodraven's, letting bran see through his third eye just as he did Jojen Reed(and maybe Euron crow's eye, but that's for another time folks). So whats the deal? Could Bloodraven pull a Varamyr and take over Bran's body? Bloodraven is 150 years old, his body is deteriorated. He needs a new host. If you know anything of his past you know he's a ruthless sumbitch responsible for slaughtering a good half of the blackfyres and everyone who ever spoke ill of him(a septon's head graced a spike in the Stoney Sept for example). So, my point is, this isn't some jolly old wizard Bran comes to meet. This is one of the master players of the Game of Thrones, and I don't think he's like to give up his wierwood chair so easily. Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions? Absolute denial? Different ideas? Tinfoil? Let the chat....begin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sartre#1 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 I think this is a good point. Martin does not seem like the kind of writer to make some nice Dumbledore type of wizard teacher out of Bloodraven. Also according to the Order of the Green Hand Bloodraven was tricked by the children of the forest into sitting down on his wierwood chair anyways. So if he could swap with Bran, but Bran's brain may be too powerful, so I think he could somehow use Bran to escape from his deal : with his past history wouldn't he do so? To warg someone you need to be close so it is a good point on why he would lure them all to his location, or may be warg just Hodor. Why wouldn't he not do it if he could escape from his situation and feels he needs to serve the realm in some future way? Hodor seems like someone good to warg and then combine power with Bran to do some plan which he worked out. Ever since I read the POV on the skin changing I always wondered why wouldn't this power corrupt the guys more? It is quite seductive to live long amounts of time and gather more and more knowledge and power. Going into weak brained people seems to be easy. I always thought if I was a warg master type of guy you could search out some simpletons and keep them healthy and by your side as servants or something and when the time arises just swap bodies. The stronger the mind the more difficult the warging, which was shown in the POV so retarded people are much better. But I agree with you. I just do not see Bloodraven being some wizard mentor for nothing and then dying. Look at the long youtube on Bloodraven and then how could a reader really think that this guy would not try to do more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 16 minutes ago, sartre#1 said: Martin does not seem like the kind of writer to make some nice Dumbledore type of wizard teacher out of Bloodraven. This contradiction right here. Dumby was the OG two-faced ruthless jerk disguised as a doting old wizard gramps. I kinda like this theory tho. Maybe Bloodraven made some kind of deal with the Children where he gives them another Greenseer to sit on that throne all day and keep the Others at bay or whatever it is he's doing at the Beyond the Wall Retirement Home. Then he just takes over Hodor's body and walks out with a super strong young body easy to control. Jojen was just a necessary weirwood vitamin supplement for Bran so he could make paste, eh sorry, haste in his magical training. But I could see Meera being a bit of a wildcard here. She's badass and might get her hands on a certain Dark Sister sword lying around on that cave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Ice-Eyes Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 The 3-eyed crow isn't Bloodraven. It's Bran's subconscious/higher self/future Bran. There's a great thread on the subject with some really good close reading of many passages in the book, which makes an excellent case. So Bran is the last greenseer. The crow is Bran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 3 hours ago, Maester Saramello said: Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions? Absolute denial? Different ideas? Tinfoil? Let the chat....begin! Bran is not a greenseer. He is a student with potential, and when bloodraven dies, Bran will be the last. 1 hour ago, sartre#1 said: I think this is a good point. Martin does not seem like the kind of writer to make some nice Dumbledore type of wizard teacher out of Bloodraven. Also according to the Order of the Green Hand Bloodraven was tricked by the children of the forest into sitting down on his wierwood chair anyways. So if he could swap with Bran, but Bran's brain may be too powerful, so I think he could somehow use Bran to escape from his deal : with his past history wouldn't he do so? To warg someone you need to be close so it is a good point on why he would lure them all to his location, or may be warg just Hodor. Why wouldn't he not do it if he could escape from his situation and feels he needs to serve the realm in some future way? Hodor seems like someone good to warg and then combine power with Bran to do some plan which he worked out. Ever since I read the POV on the skin changing I always wondered why wouldn't this power corrupt the guys more? It is quite seductive to live long amounts of time and gather more and more knowledge and power. Going into weak brained people seems to be easy. I always thought if I was a warg master type of guy you could search out some simpletons and keep them healthy and by your side as servants or something and when the time arises just swap bodies. The stronger the mind the more difficult the warging, which was shown in the POV so retarded people are much better. But I agree with you. I just do not see Bloodraven being some wizard mentor for nothing and then dying. Look at the long youtube on Bloodraven and then how could a reader really think that this guy would not try to do more? book quote or it didn't happen. Bloodraven wasn't tricked, any more than bran was. Treeraven is a far different being at 125 than he was in his 30's fighting his brother. sometimes youtube theories are so far off the rails you have to ignore them if you want to understand the story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sartre#1 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Yes, Bloodraven must be a different person. Still if he has the power, why wouldn't he try to warg a simple minded person like Hodor? He must know a lot about the wrights, the white walkers, the children, ect. So he could take that knowledge somewhere else. Also why will Bran be the last Greenseer. It seems like the Fire and Ice time frame moves fairly slowly as far as cultural change. There must be people born later on with this ability of Greenseer. Now that we know there are live Children of The Forest also, it opens up the idea that there will be more Greenseers. It seems like that race has not died out yet. Once this training is done, will Bran even leave this area? If he becomes part of the weirwood like Bloodraven, then the other members are just collateral goods to be added to the bone heap in the rooms and Bran will have weirwood chair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgregor of the North Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 42 minutes ago, sartre#1 said: Once this training is done, will Bran even leave this area? If he becomes part of the weirwood like Bloodraven, then the other members are just collateral goods to be added to the bone heap in the rooms and Bran will have weirwood chair. I think Bran is destined to leave this area. After eating the Weirwood paste he is wed to the trees and can slip his consciousness into their roots even without sitting on the throne they set out for him. I do not think he needs to spend time in the cave to fulfill his role in the story, nor will he. Bloodraven seems to have let his body merge with the tree to linger longer than his mortal lifespan allows so he can interact with Bran and teach him when he arrives in the cave, but I do not think this is what is in store for Bran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cebass Fire's Bane Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 We are consistently told that Bloodraven did (and does) the things he did "For the Realm". So if he is trying to take over Bran's body, we would have to assume that it is "For the Realm", right? So while we might not like it, it may be what needs to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindsayLohan Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Someone who believes this please post a single shred of background or evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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