What will be Jaime's destiny?

[Prof. Cecily]

4 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

...Eh, the current situation is pretty irrelevant, they're getting out of it alive. Arya's coming. It's just to teach Jaime what happens when the crown fails to do justice, when the people lose belief that the crown will do justice. The small folk take it into their own hands and shit gets very ugly very quickly.

Arya's coming?

I had a notion GRRM claims to have many adventures of Arya in Braavos for TWOW.

I could be wrong there.

[chrisdaw]

1 hour ago, Prof. Cecily said:

Arya's coming?

I had a notion GRRM claims to have many adventures of Arya in Braavos for TWOW.

I could be wrong there.

Arya is the third highest POV count, we're going to get multiple chapters of hers for every one of Jaime/Brienne which are most likely going to get consolidated. And whilst Arya works her way there there's the scouring of Riverlands of Freys by Stoneheart for Jaime/Brienne chapters to cover, which likely will include a RR wedding. There's probably going to be lots of horrors for Goldenhand the Just to witness so that he may fully understand the lesson, possibly his aunt's death, maybe Amerei too.

Probably GRRM is going to tuck Jaime and Brienne away in this story line for safe keeping until after the new Dance has been fought and won by Dany.

[LynnS]

10 hours ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

That would be interesting, imagine the Brienne + Podrick adventures going to Essos? But I don't think Martin can  end their arc within 2 books if she goes to Braavos. She's going to find Arya in Westeros somewhere. Now, regarding Jaime, the only way I can see he getting out alive if he chooses the trial by combat and somehow wins. Otherwise Catelyn would have him hanged no matter what he says.

After re-reading the passage where he tells Brienne about fArya; he thinks he's not bound by his oath to Catelyn any longer.  He couldn't return Sansa and Arya even if he had them because Ned and Cat are both dead.  He's in for one hell of a shock when the dead return to hold him to account.  Not sure about trial by combat unless Brienne is his champion. He's pretty useless since he lost his sword hand.  I can see Brienne giving Catelyn 'the gift of mercy' with Oathkeeper and releasing her from her undead state. 

[Prof. Cecily]

3 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

 a RR wedding.

I'll bite.

What's a RR wedding?

 

And as for the unfortunate fArya, 

Quote

 Money buys a man's silence for a time. A bolt in the heart buys it forever. ... 

 

[rotting sea cow]

14 hours ago, Midnight Confession said:

It's time for Jaime to die.  Has he expressed remorse for maiming Bran?  No.  The idea of honor and doing the right thing appeals to him but how much of what he loves will he sacrifice to do the right thing.  He know Jeyne Poole is fake and yet doesn't do anything about it. 

And don't you think that maybe that is part of his arc. That maybe he cannot die without understanding the damage he has done and he must done some deeds to compensate it.

Bran & Jaime are likely to have a metaphysical encounter in that cave full of weirwood roots.

[chrisdaw]

11 minutes ago, Prof. Cecily said:

What's a RR wedding?

I'm not across that one, Cat come the grim reaper wiping out Freys doesn't interest me like it does some, but it seems a fairly solid theory from what I've read of it. You'll have to seek it out yourself if you care to, Red Wedding 2, there were multiple topics for it that I assume still exist.

[foxberlin]

5 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Arya is the third highest POV count, we're going to get multiple chapters of hers for every one of Jaime/Brienne which are most likely going to get consolidated. And whilst Arya works her way there there's the scouring of Riverlands of Freys by Stoneheart for Jaime/Brienne chapters to cover, which likely will include a RR wedding. There's probably going to be lots of horrors for Goldenhand the Just to witness so that he may fully understand the lesson, possibly his aunt's death, maybe Amerei too.

Probably GRRM is going to tuck Jaime and Brienne away in this story line for safe keeping until after the new Dance has been fought and won by Dany.

I often agree with you, especially on stonesphinx!Euron and that crack in the Wall resulting from Jon and Dany having sex just where Ygritte died. You convinced me to overthink my idea that Jaime and Brienne arn't end game. They might be. I just came across this big moment of foreshadowing:

She was all mud and blood below the waist, her clothing askew, her face red. She looks as if they caught us fucking instead of fighting. Jaime crawled over the rocks to shallow water, wiping the blood from his eye with his chained hands. Armed men lined both sides of the brook. Small wonder, we were making enough noise to wake a dragon.  (ASOS)

Possibly when they indeed fuck instead of fighting they will wake dragons? They are both heavy people, especially in amor, so this will cause another crack, but this time the earth heats up from the core and all hidden dragon eggs hatch. Unluckily around the same time Cersei is about to commit suicide by using wildfyre, so when she sees dragons in the flames she believes herself being really the mother of dragons. Its three dragons, like in the prophecy. Now it gets messy. Some dragon riders kill off the Others, others kill off other dragons. This pretty much cleans Westeros from magic, amongst all other catastrophies chrisdaw already mentioned. Only Brienne became pregnant from that first time and gives birth to Azor Ahai, coming too late. Frustrated to live in a world without magic he becomes a big villian but will be killed by his parents in the very end. They have an Inn to live under cover. Brienne as a wench and Jaime as heavy drinker. He became fatter with every drink and she more beautiful, so there is a bittersweet romance for both of them in the end.

[chrisdaw]

1 hour ago, foxberlin said:

Possibly when they indeed fuck instead of fighting they will wake dragons?

I don't know that anything they do will wake a dragon, but they are going to be rooting. User Lost Melnibonean has that foreshadowing covered somewhere round here.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

 

 

2 hours ago, foxberlin said:

I often agree with you, especially on stonesphinx!Euron and that crack in the Wall resulting from Jon and Dany having sex just where Ygritte died. You convinced me to overthink my idea that Jaime and Brienne arn't end game. They might be. I just came across this big moment of foreshadowing:

She was all mud and blood below the waist, her clothing askew, her face red. She looks as if they caught us fucking instead of fighting. Jaime crawled over the rocks to shallow water, wiping the blood from his eye with his chained hands. Armed men lined both sides of the brook. Small wonder, we were making enough noise to wake a dragon.  (ASOS)

STOP OVERTHINKING EVERY SENTENCE OF THE FUCKING BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK 

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[CornishDornish]

11 hours ago, The Gravepisser said:

Trebuchet

Well, banging your queen and fathering 3 bastards, knowing that it may end up tearing realm into the pieces certainly is right thing to do.

Exactly. He went from an uncaring sister-fucker to someone who is at least trying to do the right thing. As demonstrated from the trebuchet threat to Edmure, an act which stopped Riverrun from becoming an absolute bloodbath, even if the method was most distasteful.

[Ser Kinslayer]

It might turn out to be irrelevant that Jaime knows about fake Arya. After all, the Brotherhood Without Banners know of Ayra's survival and so must Lady Stoneheart. I'm surprised that this wasn't brought up already before Lady Stoneheart decided to hang Brienne. Obviously she had intent to kill her, but what was the point if she already knew that Ayra is still alive? This is going to end up being something important later down the road.

[HoodedCrow]

17 hours ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

by

Ser Loras, it's all we have...:).

[Ser Loras The Gay]

Just now, Ser Kinslayer said:

It might turn out to be irrelevant that Jaime knows about fake Arya. After all, the Brotherhood Without Banners know of Ayra's survival and so must Lady Stoneheart. I'm surprised that this wasn't brought up already before Lady Stoneheart decided to hang Brienne. Obviously she had intent to kill her, but what was the point if she already knew that Ayra is still alive? This is going to end up being something important later down the road.

Some people have said she was testing Brienne's faithfulness for her oaths. I do think that Thoros would've revived her after the hanging. Lady stoneheart knows that Brienne did what she did because she was told so even if she's full of hatred towards everyone involved in her family massacre.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

1 minute ago, HoodedCrow said:

Ser Loras, it's all we have...:).

what?

[Ser Kinslayer]

5 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

Some people have said she was testing Brienne's faithfulness for her oaths. I do think that Thoros would've revived her after the hanging. Lady stoneheart knows that Brienne did what she did because she was told so even if she's full of hatred towards everyone involved in her family massacre.

I guess it's possible that Thoros revived her, but wouldn't that have taken the life from Lady Stoneheart the way it did Beric Dondarrion? Also, I think it's possible that Brienne didn't die from her hanging.

[HoodedCrow]

Ser Loras, until we get the next book, overthinking is all we have, other than opposing Trumpcare and other real life events.

[Traverys]

20 hours ago, CornishDornish said:

I always read Jamie's chapters as an exploration of the nature of 'doing the right thing' even though it's not the 'moral' or 'correct' decision. Especially when you compare them to Barristan's chapters who did whatever he was told to do even if it troubled him deep down.

If he kills Lady Stoneheart he'll kill the one woman who showed him mercy during the WOTFK even though Stoneheart wants to see him hang.

If Cersei goes full batshit insane and becomes the Mad Queen Jamie may again have to become the kinslayer to save the realm. Which falls nicely into another theme of the series of history repeating itself time after time.

All guesswork of course. As someone has already said his story could go anyway at the point where Dance ended.

Other people apparently don't agree with this but I do. I think it's also a story of atonement as he's been slapped awake by circumstances. He ultimately wants to do the best he can to regain his honor, but he's pragmatic enough to doubt if that's even possible at this point. He's brave enough to still try though, and that counts for something.

Out of fairness, he does feel bad for what he did to Bran:

Quote

"If I'd let kingslaying become a habit, as he liked to say, I could have taken you as my wife for all the world to see. I'm not ashamed of loving you, only of the things I've done to hide it. That boy at Winterfell . . . "

Sure, he's not throwing himself on the floor of a Sept begging the Mother for forgiveness, but it at least shows he's not as callous as people perceive him to be. I've never really picked up on why he takes his vow to Catelyn so seriously, but maybe guilt over Bran plays into his motivation. I only recall him saying he'd be amused by doing what people wouldn't expect of him. 

I think his destiny could end in death, but somewhere along the way he has to meet a conclusion to the arc of atonement, duty, or whatever you want to label it. GRRM kills major characters off suddenly, but when we look back there is at least some conclusion or "lesson learned" to the story they've had. His story feels mid-arc to me, but that's a personal opinion. I wish I could say that he and Brienne fall in love and live happily ever after, but this isn't a romance series. Hopefully they can relay to Stoneheart that he's been trying to keep his vow to her, but she doesn't seem to be of the sort that can be reasoned with anymore. There's some good threads speculating about how things are going to turn out with Stoneheart. I think the possibility I dread the most is Stoneheart making Brienne her champion in a trial by combat against him. To me, that's the worst case scenario.

[GloubieBoulga]

20 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

I've no idea how Jaime and Brienne will get out of the trouble. But they will.

Exactly the same ! Perhaps killing Lem Lemoncloak in the trial ? Perhaps with Jaime loosing his eyes ? 

But for the rest, as I see the couple Brienne-Jaime playing Symeon Star-Eyes, I also like to anticipate that at the very end they will rescue Sansa from the couple Cersei-Robert Strong (Jaime killing Cersei and Brienne killing Robert Strong). In ACOK, during the Blackwater battle, Cersei is mocking Sansa, saying that she will be rescued by Aemon dragonknight and Symeon. 

[Ser Loras The Gay]

2 hours ago, Ser Kinslayer said:

I guess it's possible that Thoros revived her, but wouldn't that have taken the life from Lady Stoneheart the way it did Beric Dondarrion? Also, I think it's possible that Brienne didn't die from her hanging.

I'm not saying she DIED, because Podrick screamed SWORD saving everyone from hanging. But I meant that as a test to see if she was willing to give up her vows, and SHE wasn't. Podrick was scare and wanted to save himself, and Brienne was saved by him in the process.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

2 hours ago, HoodedCrow said:

Ser Loras, until we get the next book, overthinking is all we have, other than opposing Trumpcare and other real life events.

Yeah, but this is BAD, I mean BAD. Because it makes the reading process not enjoyble anymore for a lot of people. Because now we have to reread thinking every single phrase or sentence is related somehow to something and everysingle sentece that has ANY similarities with something that was already writen as a parallel between situations or foreshadowing.