Dragonsbone

HBO confirms on working on four potential spinoffs of GOT

175 posts in this topic

I seriously hope that we will have a miniseries about the time that Jaime fought against the Kingswood brotherhood alongside Ser Arthur Dayne.

Such fascinating characters and they are barely mentioned in the books,  Wenda the White Fawn, Ulmer (who probably kissed Elia) and of course the Smiling Knight.

 

I wonder if it will be in the same vein of Fantastic Beasts.  

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Posted (edited)

With D & D not being directly involved I could get really behind a prequel spinoff. Robert's Rebellion, Iron Born Rebellion, Targaryen rule etc there is a lot of potential. More work for George though which pushes future book releases further and further away. 

Edited by aFeastForDragons

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5 minutes ago, aFeastForDragons said:

With D & D not being directly involved I could get really behind a prequel spinoff. Robert's Rebellion, Iron Born Rebellion, Targaryen rule etc there is a lot of potential. More work for George though which pushes future book releases further and further away. 

Priorities...money or fans?..tough for George...

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Posted (edited)

Nice. I look forward to this.

It's either a completely new story, or one of these four:

-Robert's Rebelliion

-DOTD

-The Conquest

-Dunk and Egg.

Edited by Ingelheim

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If I had to guess, one, maybe two of these shows will make it to series, unless they're commissioning miniseries to air one after the other.

I think GRRM said something like how Robert's Rebellion would be redundant, since he intends to cover that in ASOIAF. I guess if he never finishes ASOIAF, he may as well get around to doing it for TV, LOL.

I also think GRRM has been very enthusiastic about a Dunk and Egg spinoff. I'd bet one of the two treatments he's collaborating on (with Jane Goldman and Carly Wray) are Dunk and Egg.

Three of the four writers don't have much TV experience, but then, neither did D&D when they started GOT.

Dunk and Egg is probably the easiest sell from HBO's perspective, since it would be far cheaper (no massive CGI battles, no dragons, etc.) and far easier to stretch into an ongoing series than some of the other possibilities floated (Robert's Rebellion, Dance of the Dragons, etc.). 

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Dunk and Egg would have a totally different feel from GOT, if they want to attract and keep the GOT audience, they are going to need real Targs, battles and dragons.  My money is on the conquest, George is most invested in the Targs, that would give you a fresh story, and a very similar set of basics....dragons, beautiful Targs, incest, changing alliances, war and magic.

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Posted (edited)

14 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Dunk and Egg would have a totally different feel from GOT, if they want to attract and keep the GOT audience, they are going to need real Targs, battles and dragons.  My money is on the conquest, George is most invested in the Targs, that would give you a fresh story, and a very similar set of basics....dragons, beautiful Targs, incest, changing alliances, war and magic.

HBO's also going to need to pay for whatever they greenlight, and Dunk & Egg being much cheaper to produce would be a big selling point. HBO has had a number of flashy and expensive failures in its history, so a GOT property without the GOT price tag would be very attractive to them.

Even with a late-season GOT budget--which whatever GOT spinoff would not have starting out, since they're not going to throw late-season GOT money at an unproven spinoff--GOT has only managed four dragon scenes per season (Season 6: Tyrion with the dragons, Dany with the Dothraki, Battle of Meereen, Dany returns to Westeros). Not episodes. Scenes. Five minutes an episode or so. And even with GOT's massive Season 6+ budget, the dragons are still MIA far more than most fans would like. GOT also cut the direwolves' appearance down to nearly nothing because of the cost of doing direwolf CGI.

That's really not going to fly (so to speak) for the Dance of the Dragons, unless most of the dragon battles take place off screen, or any other dragon-heavy stories. Robert's Rebellion at least doesn't have any dragons to deal with.

Edited by Newstar

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A lot of people say they are interested in Robert's Rebellion, it would be weird to me, since that story is already known, even on the show....it's less "new" than Better Call Saul, where although we know where the BB characters end up...we don't know how they got there.  In RR, we also know how they got there and where they ended up...so what would be the point of watching it?  And even BCS, as good as it is, isn't getting any kind of similar audience as BB...

I don't know, lightening rarely strikes twice, spin offs rarely do well. HBO has broken ground many times, so they might succeed, but it sort of feels like desperation to put 4 potential spin offs in development, as if they feel they must have another GOT hit.

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- Robert's rebellion

- Dance of the dragons

- The conquest

- Dunk and Egg

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15 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I don't know, lightening rarely strikes twice, spin offs rarely do well. HBO has broken ground many times, so they might succeed, but it sort of feels like desperation to put 4 potential spin offs in development, as if they feel they must have another GOT hit.

Yes, exactly. It does reek of desperation a little.

I think HBO doesn't really want any other TWOIAF-related properties. They want more ASOIAF. I'm sure if HBO could have forced D&D to turn GOT into the next Walking Dead, which progresses so slowly that there is a ton of source material left and will likely wind up airing for at least 12 seasons, they would have. Unfortunately, or fortunately I guess depending on how you look at it, D&D refused, so HBO is stuck trying to come up with a hit out of the related Planetos universe and lore.

I think it's like trying to capture lightning in a bottle. As great as Dunk & Egg may be, it's a very different sort of story from ASOIAF. The same goes for the Dance of the Dragons, which centers around Targ infighting as opposed to inter-house clashes, and the same goes for Robert's Rebellion, which has no magical elements and no dragons. There is only one ASOIAF, and the TV version is almost over.

I am a little worried that HBO will reach the same conclusion and try to make a sequel banking on GOT's success, but you know, that could work, provided GRRM was involved and provided they set it far enough in the future past the end of GOT that they wouldn't need any of the original actors. I guess that presupposes that there will be enough descendants of major GOT characters to base a series on, though, and that's a pretty big assumption.

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I feel like Dunk and Egg would attract more of an arthouse cult following.  That's just a gut isntinct.

But I don't think that's what HBO is going for.

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  • Robert's Rebellion - on the one hand, Martin said it wouldn't work too well as a book due to characters having so many flashbacks to it....but the TV show CUT THOSE OUT so it would benefit the TV audience.  It's a big draw due to having characters we're invested in...but also....its biggest strength AND drawback is that it would really only sustain a one-shot TV season:  one year of 10 to 13 episodes.  Which is a plus, because it means it's easier to produce, even if it won't be around for long.
  • Tales of Dunk & Egg - an obvious choice, the first prequel series and the only one narrativized.  Doesn't have a sweeping geographic scope, but that conversely means it's easier to produce; focused on Dunk & Egg, not multiple POV characters, no huge expensive dragons or Slaver's Bay and stuff.  Drawbacks....it would work better as a "Sherlock" style series of TV movies than a straightforward TV series.  There's currently 3 written novellas out of a planned 12, and 3 roughly equals one short book.  But the drawback isn't geography but TIME:  it has major time jumps across a 50 year period.  So they'd have to recast over time.  But this could last like 4 seasons, and I hope the last one would overlap with the Rise of Tywin - that is, the whole Westerlands chapter from the World book about the Reyne Rebellion and Tywin's youth, which Martin said he ALWAYS knew even before he started writing the World book.  It feels cinematic and like it should really lend itself well to adaptation. 
  • The Dance of the Dragons - could easily sustain a 4-5 year TV series, each season covering a six month period (I.e. "Death of Viserys I to Rook's Rest" would be "Season 1")  Like the War of the Five Kings...but with dragons!
  • The Targaryen Conquest, First Dornish War, & Sons of the Dragon - Martin has remarked that "The reign of Maegor could span something like three novels".  Add in one year for the Targaryen Conquest, and one year for the reign of Aegon I & First Dornish War, we get a 5 year prequel series.  Basically it would be "I, Claudius" - with dragons!  (That's Martin's writing - when in doubt, copy "I, Claudius"). 

    Conquest of Dorne/Blood of Dragons would be nice to see some day but isn't one to start with due to heavy background setup required.  And a Blackadder-style reign of Aegon IV. 

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1 minute ago, Newstar said:

Yes, exactly. It does reek of desperation a little.

I think HBO doesn't really want any other TWOIAF-related properties. They want more ASOIAF. I'm sure if HBO could have forced D&D to turn GOT into the next Walking Dead, which progresses so slowly that there is a ton of source material left and will likely wind up airing for at least 12 seasons, they would have. Unfortunately, or fortunately I guess depending on how you look at it, D&D refused, so HBO is stuck trying to come up with a hit out of the related Planetos universe and lore.

I think it's like trying to capture lightning in a bottle. As great as Dunk & Egg may be, it's a very different sort of story from ASOIAF. The same goes for the Dance of the Dragons, which centers around Targ infighting as opposed to inter-house clashes, and the same goes for Robert's Rebellion, which has no magical elements and no dragons. There is only one ASOIAF, and the TV version is almost over.

I am a little worried that HBO will reach the same conclusion and try to make a sequel banking on GOT's success, but you know, that could work, provided GRRM was involved and provided they set it far enough in the future past the end of GOT that they wouldn't need any of the original actors. I guess that presupposes that there will be enough descendants of major GOT characters to base a series on, though, and that's a pretty big assumption.

It's a little weird though, because they have never tried to do this before, I don't think?  They didn't do a Sopranos spin off, although that may have been impossible given Chase's weirdo ending and that by the end pretty much everyone was dead, LOL.  HBO has had rather in the past a tendency to CUT SHORT it's programming, rather than extend it.  I think this will be like most spin offs, w/the caveat that if anyone could pull it off, HBO is probably the best bet, it will start with high numbers which will then drop as the audience feels like it's not what they wanted:  GOT.  It would also be an issue of how well whatever ending of GOT goes over with the audience.  If people hate it, that could severely impact the popularity of any spin off.

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Posted (edited)

12 minutes ago, Roose on the Loose said:

I feel like Dunk and Egg would attract more of an arthouse cult following.  That's just a gut isntinct.

But I don't think that's what HBO is going for.

For a property like GOT, it might be a disappointment, but HBO has happily sustained TV shows with small followings provided they had plenty of buzz or awards attention. Both Girls and Veep, shows with minimal ratings but plenty of buzz (and awards, in Veep's case), made it to six seasons.

I would hope HBO would be realistic about a spinoff's prospects for success. There's only one ASOIAF, and they did it already. That doesn't mean that a non-ASOIAF adaptation wouldn't be popular, only that it's unlikely to be the blockbuster hit GOT was. Better Call Saul is a good example; it's a fantastic show, but compared to Breaking Bad, it doesn't even register in terms of relative popularity.

I guess HBO could always do what The Force Awakens did and rehash the plot of ASOIAF with different characters LOL.

 

10 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I think this will be like most spin offs, w/the caveat that if anyone could pull it off, HBO is probably the best bet, it will start with high numbers which will then drop as the audience feels like it's not what they wanted:  GOT.  It would also be an issue of how well whatever ending of GOT goes over with the audience.  If people hate it, that could severely impact the popularity of any spin off.

Absolutely. Someone on the /asoiaf subreddit pointed out that fans' anger over the ending of Battlestar Galactica pretty much killed the prequel spinoff Caprica in the cradle. If fans hate the ending of GOT, the spinoff will be pretty much DOA no matter how promising it might otherwise be.

Edited by Newstar

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I thought Caprica had such potential, but then I didn't hate the end of BSG like so many did, they definitely went off the rails toward the end, but the actual "ending" I liked.  Oh well.  

Perhaps 4 prequels in development means that the GOT ending won't turn out as dark and deadly as I have been thinking.....OR....HBO has decided since the audience got over the Ned, the RW....they will get over the death of anyone.....

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I think it will be D&E because it has the potential to run for a logn time, and is distant enough from the main story that no matter how much D&D screws up the ending of asoiaf it won't affect much.

Robert's rebellion would have been great but I think D&D are going to ruin it.

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15 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I thought Caprica had such potential, but then I didn't hate the end of BSG like so many did, they definitely went off the rails toward the end, but the actual "ending" I liked.  Oh well.  .

I didn't hate the BSG ending the way a lot of fans did, but I'd become so disillusioned with the show by that point that my expectations had been radically scaled down, so...

 

Quote

Perhaps 4 prequels in development means that the GOT ending won't turn out as dark and deadly as I have been thinking.....OR....HBO has decided since the audience got over the Ned, the RW....they will get over the death of anyone....

I wonder whether HBO knows anything about how GOT is going to end. D&D are presumably still writing Season 8.

 

6 minutes ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

I think it will be D&E because it has the potential to run for a logn time

I thought so too, but GRRM has said that his preference is to do three standalone two-hour movies based on the existing books (kind of like Sherlock, I guess?). I don't know if HBO will go for that, though; they'd probably be more interested in something longer term and ongoing.

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My assumption is that HBO and D/D have known the ending for the main characters since the beginning, presumably this is why they have said they could have written the last episodes years ago.

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