Bluetiger Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Quote The proudest city in all the world was gone in an instant, the fabled empire vanished in a day. The Lands of the Long Summer—once the most fertile in all the world—were scorched and drowned and blighted, and the toll in blood would not be fully realized for a century to come. What followed in the sudden vacuum was chaos. The dragonlords had been gathered in Valyria as was their wont...except for Aenar Targaryen, his children, and his dragons, who had fled to Dragonstone and so escaped the Doom. Some accounts claim that a few others survived, too...for a time. It is said that some Valyrian dragonlords in Tyrosh and Lys were spared, but that in the immediate political upheaval following the Doom, they and their dragons were killed by the citizens of those Free Cities. The histories of Qohor likewise claim that a visiting dragonlord, Aurion, raised forces from the Qohorik colonists and proclaimed himself the first Emperor of Valyria. He flew away on the back of his great dragon, with thirty thousand men following behind afoot, to lay claim to what remained of Valyria and to reestablish the Freehold. But neither Emperor Aurion nor his host were ever seen again. The time of the dragons in Essos was at an end. (The World of Ice and Fire) Emperor... a title previously unseen in the Freehold - but well-known in Valyria's rival, The Golden Empire of Yi Ti, and its predecessor, The Great Empire of the Dawn. It is in GEOTD where we find the most famous bearer of this imperial style - The Bloodstone Emperor. The man who took part in the Blood Betrayal... maybe this Emperor was a traitor as well? And usurper of Valyria's throne? Well, he was either well-informed by the real organisers of this event, really lucky guy, or the one who conspired to take down all the other dragonlords. Quote And then, unexpected to all (save perhaps Aenar Targaryen and his maiden daughter Daenys the Dreamer), the Doom came to Valyria. To this day, no one knows what caused the Doom. Most say that it was a natural cataclysm—a catastrophic explosion caused by the eruption of all Fourteen Flames together. Some septons, less wise, claim that the Valyrians brought the disaster on themselves for their promiscuous belief in a hundred gods and more, and in their godlessness they delved too deep and unleashed the fires of the Seven hells on the Freehold. A handful of maesters, influenced by fragments of the work of Septon Barth, hold that Valyria had used spells to tame the Fourteen Flames for thousands of years, that their ceaseless hunger for slaves and wealth was as much to sustain these spells as to expand their power, and that when at last those spells faltered, the cataclysm became inevitable. I propose that it was Aurion who paid somebody, perhaps the Faceless Men to murder the mages who kept the Fourteen Fires in check. I'm not sure if he did it for power... maybe he was just a lunatic like Euron Greyjoy, a psychopat who desired to become the new Bloodstone Emperor... And how did he pay to the FM? Well.... Quote The wealth of the westerlands was matched, in ancient times, with the hunger of the Freehold of Valyria for precious metals, yet there seems no evidence that the dragonlords ever made contact with the lords of the Rock, Casterly or Lannister. Septon Barth speculated on the matter, referring to a Valyrian text that has since been lost, suggesting that the Freehold's sorcerers foretold that the gold of Casterly Rock would destroy them. Archmaester Perestan has put forward a different, more plausible speculation, suggesting that the Valyrians had in ancient days reached as far as Oldtown but suffered some great reverse or tragedy there that caused them to shun all of Westeros thereafter. And guess what 'Aurion' means... Quote Gold is a chemical element with symbol Au (from Latin: aurum) and atomic number 79. In its purest form, it is a bright, slightly reddish yellow, dense, soft, malleable, and ductile metal. Chemically, gold is a transition metal and a group 11 element. It is one of the least reactive chemical elements and is solid under standard conditions. Gold often occurs in free elemental (native) form, as nuggets or grains, in rocks, in veins, and in alluvial deposits. It occurs in a solid solution series with the native element silver (as electrum) and also naturally alloyed with copper and palladium. Less commonly, it occurs in minerals as gold compounds, often with tellurium (gold tellurides). (Wikipedia) So Aurion is the gold the sorcerers spoke of, when they foretold their own doom. And I propose that he got the gold to pay to the FM by selling the Valyrian Steel blade later called 'Brightroar'. Quote Brightroar came into the possession of the Lannister kings in the century before the Doom of Valyria, and it is said that the weight of gold they paid for it would have been enough to raise an army. (A Wiki of Ice and Fire) The same century - I imagine Aurion was smart enough to wait few years before acting. The Doom was a bright roar indeed. And it seems that the money he got was enough not only to pay to the FM, but also raise an army - an army of 30 000. Just like the original Bloodstone Emperor, this wannabe-Azor Ahai suffered the consequences of the catastrophe he provoked. And: (The Winds of Winter sample chapter spoilers) Spoiler Euron's VS armor might be actually Aurion's. Just a little tinfoil of mine... thanks for reading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 I like this theory because it takes the main thing we all think about the Doom - that the FM had something to do with the Doom - and unites it with the other likely clue about the Doom - that Lannister fortune paid for Brightroar - and makes a sensible theory out of it. Bravo! It also ties in that weird story about Aurion, and the Au / gold name clue is a nice piece of evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyg Doggett Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 10 minutes ago, LmL said: I like this theory because it takes the main thing we all think about the Doom - that the FM had something to do with the Doom - and unites it with the other likely clue about the Doom - that Lannister fortune paid for Brightroar - and makes a sensible theory out of it. Bravo! It also ties in that weird story about Aurion, and the Au / gold name clue is a nice piece of evidence. Agree, a very good theory, So, what happened to Aurion when he and his army arrived Valyria? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 17 minutes ago, Tygett Blackwood said: Agree, a very good theory, So, what happened to Aurion when he and his army arrived Valyria? Well, if we were to ever get an answer to that, it will come from Euron and probably involve his armor, or whatever else he might have obtained in Valyria. He might whip out freaking Brightroar in some scene for all we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hammer of Justice Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 On 06/05/2017 at 1:42 PM, Blue Tiger said: but well-known in Valyria's rival, The Golden Empire of Yi Ti excuse me, why do the Golden Empire of Yi Ti is Valyria's rival? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Just skimmed it for now, but sounds interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon_Tor Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 I'm into it, but it seems pretty extreme to nuke your whole civilization just so you can rule over a radioactive crater. Maybe he didn't realize how utter the destruction would be? You don't need an army to conquer a desolate wasteland, so why did he raise one if he knew what he was walking into? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted May 12, 2017 Author Share Posted May 12, 2017 On 12.05.2017 at 10:44 PM, Damon_Tor said: I'm into it, but it seems pretty extreme to nuke your whole civilization just so you can rule over a radioactive crater. Maybe he didn't realize how utter the destruction would be? You don't need an army to conquer a desolate wasteland, so why did he raise one if he knew what he was walking into? Yeah... I imagine he underestimated the cataclysm... Maybe he just wanted to wipe out only those in the city... Or just the mages... Maybe killing them and spilling blood acted like blood magic ritual which triggered/stenghtened the eruptions... On the other hand, he could've been a total madman - on Euron or Aerys level. By the way... Maybe King Tommen led that expedition to Valyria to ensure that nothing that could suggest Lannister involvment in the Doom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthGirl Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 Oh my god! I actually like this theory! And I love the Adrian=gold connection. This is very interesting because, like LML said, it ties together elements we already know to be associated and fills in the blanks in a satisfying manner. And imagine the increase in breadth and depth of the FM's network with the fortune they got from Aurion. It also makes sense that this is how they caused the doom because according to their dogma, they couldn't just decide to eradicate the dragon lords, right? They had to be asked and accept an equivalent offer. This might have also have helped Braavos to become one of the most prosperous of the Free Cities. I also tried to look at the myth of Orion, since it's probably pronounced the same way but nothing really pinged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 This is really good. I know we don't have a ton of info on Aurion, but you managed to pull together a very cohesive, and plausible, theory that could also be hinting at what is about to happen in TWOW (well, smidges of it have already started). I love the name connection. Solid! On 5/6/2017 at 0:42 PM, Blue Tiger said: Gold is a chemical element with symbol Au (from Latin: aurum) and atomic number 79. In its purest form, it is a bright, slightly reddish yellow, dense, soft, malleable, and ductile metal. Chemically, gold is a transition metal and a group 11 element. It is one of the least reactive chemical elements and is solid under standard conditions. Gold often occurs in free elemental (native) form, as nuggets or grains, in rocks, in veins, and in alluvial deposits. It occurs in a solid solution series with the native element silver (as electrum) and also naturally alloyed with copper and palladium. Less commonly, it occurs in minerals as gold compounds, often with tellurium (gold tellurides). (Wikipedia) Gold is a chemical element with symbol Au (from Latin: aurum) and atomic number 79. By the way, just a quick question because I cannot remember for sure, but how many ships are currently in the Iron Fleet, and/or how many will there be once Dany or Euron get them? Could it be 79? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 On 14.05.2017 at 4:07 PM, NorthGirl said: Oh my god! I actually like this theory! And I love the Adrian=gold connection. This is very interesting because, like LML said, it ties together elements we already know to be associated and fills in the blanks in a satisfying manner. And imagine the increase in breadth and depth of the FM's network with the fortune they got from Aurion. It also makes sense that this is how they caused the doom because according to their dogma, they couldn't just decide to eradicate the dragon lords, right? They had to be asked and accept an equivalent offer. This might have also have helped Braavos to become one of the most prosperous of the Free Cities. I also tried to look at the myth of Orion, since it's probably pronounced the same way but nothing really pinged Nice find. Orion - Aurion... Hmmm... They sound quite similar. I'll research this topic a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 @Blue Tiger Oh Tigris, you are on fire with your wordplay -- brilliant -- 'the Doom was a Bright Roar indeed'! I especially like your observation that the person commissioning the assassination gets more than s/he bargained for in the 'deal made with the devil'! The one 'bright roar' exchanged for another is a great example of the strange symmetry between the 'mocking' and the ironic 'counter-mocking' echo we've been discussing on the 'Killing Word' thread. It's also in keeping with the way GRRM enjoys subverting our expectations; so, whereas we've been accustomed to associating the 'roar' of the sword 'Bright Roar' with a lion, it could just as well, as you've correctly shown, be referencing a dragon's roar! I can think of a possible application of the 'bright roar' blood betrayal to another scenario, but it will not be popular; so allow me to issue a ***Trigger Warning*** for diehard Dany-lovers to temporarily vacate the establishment round about now, lest my irreverent discussion to follow set their faint hearts all aflutter... Ready? Ok -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 1 minute ago, ravenous reader said: @Blue Tiger Oh Tigris, you are on fire with your wordplay -- brilliant -- 'the Doom was a Bright Roar indeed'! I especially like your observation that the person commissioning the assassination gets more than s/he bargained for in the 'deal made with the devil'! The one 'bright roar' exchanged for another is a great example of the strange symmetry between the 'mocking' and the ironic 'counter-mocking' echo we've been discussing on the 'Killing Word' thread. It's also in keeping with the way GRRM enjoys subverting our expectations; so, whereas we've been accustomed to associating the 'roar' of the sword 'Bright Roar' with a lion, it could just as well, as you've correctly shown, be referencing a dragon's roar! I can think of a possible application of the 'bright roar' blood betrayal to another scenario, but it will not be popular; so allow me to issue a ***Trigger Warning*** for diehard Dany-lovers to temporarily vacate the establishment round about now, lest my irreverent discussion to follow set their faint hearts all aflutter... Ready? Ok -- Thanks RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 I'm only getting started, 'Kitten'... According to this analogy, Dany is in the position of Aurion, the would-be conqueror-usurper. She unseats her brother Viserys, thereby taking his place in the Targaryen accession order, by proxy assassin (this would be Drogo, who as her champion is analogous to the faceless men). Later, she'll also unseat Drogo, usurping his place at the head of the khalasar, again by means of a proxy assassin (Mirri Maz Dur). Both of these are 'blood betrayals' -- the first because Viserys is her brother, and the second because as her Dothraki husband he is her 'sun and stars,' 'blood of her blood.' The ostensible (i.e. on the surface and immediately apparent) price for her brother's assassination is also paid in gold (the gold medallions melted down for the 'golden crown'). The assassination is achieved without overt bloodshed, i.e. by fire, and accompanied by a 'bright roar' in more ways than one. However, the real , more insidious price paid and personal backlash suffered -- since assassinations ordered from the faceless men or other proxy assassins always exact a great personal cost (and the gold-medallion belt belonged to Drogo not Dany, so up until this point she had essentially failed to pay anything substantial for the service) -- the ultimate price paid, I'd propose, was the life of her unborn son Rhaego. Viserys even reinforces the stakes by pointing at her pregnant belly, threatening to 'cut out the bastard,' should he not receive what has been promised. By forfeiting her brother's life, Daenerys may have inadvertently forfeited that of her own child. @Unchained What do you think of this alternative interpretation of 'child payment'? Quote AGOT -- Daenerys V He was wearing his scarlet silks, soiled and travel-stained. His cloak and gloves were black velvet, faded from the sun. His boots were dry and cracked, his silver-blond hair matted and tangled. A longsword swung from his belt in a leather scabbard. The Dothraki eyed the sword as he passed; Dany heard curses and threats and angry muttering rising all around her, like a tide. The music died away in a nervous stammering of drums. Take note of the crescendo of all the loud voices and other sounds which are very prominent throughout the passage, culminating in a 'bright roar' at the gruesome climax! Drumming is important -- both the ominous sound of the drums themselves, evoking the drumming of the heartbeat, betraying the hyperarousal accompanying the approach of death, as well as the drumming of the feet in the 'grotesque dance' done by someone dying, usually a grisly sacrifice. Elsewhere in ASOIAF (e.g. Red Wedding , Theon at Winterfell, Bran's vision of the man sacrificed at the tree, etc.) the 'boom-DOOM' of the drums is frequently configured as a heart beat (systole-diastole of the heart sounds) --representing the death throes of someone sacrificed, often treacherously, in aid of another. 'Boom-DOOM' = the echo of the Doom reverberating across time. Quote A sense of dread closed around her heart. A synonym for 'a sense of dread' is an intimation of 'doom'! Quote "Go to him," she commanded Ser Jorah. "Stop him. Bring him here. Tell him he can have the dragon's eggs if that is what he wants." The knight rose swiftly to his feet. "Where is my sister?" Viserys shouted, his voice thick with wine. "I've come for her feast. How dare you presume to eat without me? No one eats before the king. Where is she? The whore can't hide from the dragon." He stopped beside the largest of the three firepits, peering around at the faces of the Dothraki. There were five thousand men in the hall, but only a handful who knew the Common Tongue. Yet even if his words were incomprehensible, you had only to look at him to know that he was drunk. Ser Jorah went to him swiftly, whispered something in his ear, and took him by the arm, but Viserys wrenched free. "Keep your hands off me! No one touches the dragon without leave." Dany glanced anxiously up at the high bench. Khal Drogo was saying something to the other khals beside him. Khal Jommo grinned, and Khal Ogo began to guffaw loudly. The sound of laughter made Viserys lift his eyes. It always starts with mocking. Mocking precedes the violence in almost every scenario we've examined, starting with the Prologue which is a chronic litany of mocking and counter-mocking, culminating in the Other's cracking words together with Waymar's sword finally cracking, followed by Will getting his comeuppance at the wighted Waymar's hands. Quote "Khal Drogo," he said thickly, his voice almost polite. "I'm here for the feast." He staggered away from Ser Jorah, making to join the three khals on the high bench. Khal Drogo rose, spat out a dozen words in Dothraki, faster than Dany could understand, and pointed. "Khal Drogo says your place is not on the high bench," Ser Jorah translated for her brother. "Khal Drogo says your place is there." Viserys glanced where the khal was pointing. At the back of the long hall, in a corner by the wall, deep in shadow so better men would not need to look on them, sat the lowest of the low; raw unblooded boys, old men with clouded eyes and stiff joints, the dim-witted and the maimed. Far from the meat, and farther from honor. "That is no place for a king," her brother declared. Viserys is relegated to the company of the 'dim-witted, ' the 'lackwits' and 'fools'. He's also put in the role of a court jester; see below. Quote "Is place," Khal Drogo answered, in the Common Tongue that Dany had taught him, "for Sorefoot King." He clapped his hands together. "A cart! Bring cart for Khal Rhaggat!" Five thousand Dothraki began to laugh and shout. Ser Jorah was standing beside Viserys, screaming in his ear, but the roar in the hall was so thunderous that Dany could not hear what he was saying. Her brother shouted back and the two men grappled, until Mormont knocked Viserys bodily to the floor. The roar of laughter precedes, and moreover triggers, the roar of slaughter! Quote Her brother drew his sword. The bared steel shone a fearful red in the glare from the firepits. "Keep away from me!" Viserys hissed. Ser Jorah backed off a step, and her brother climbed unsteadily to his feet. He waved the sword over his head, the borrowed blade that Magister Illyrio had given him to make him seem more kingly. Dothraki were shrieking at him from all sides, screaming vile curses. Dany gave a wordless cry of terror. She knew what a drawn sword meant here, even if her brother did not. Her voice made Viserys turn his head, and he saw her for the first time. "There she is," he said, smiling. He stalked toward her, slashing at the air as if to cut a path through a wall of enemies, though no one tried to bar his way. "The blade . . . you must not," she begged him. "Please, Viserys. It is forbidden. Put down the sword and come share my cushions. There's drink, food . . . is it the dragon's eggs you want? You can have them, only throw away the sword." "Do as she tells you, fool," Ser Jorah shouted, "before you get us all killed." According to my schema of the 'trickster, dupe and prize' trio, Viserys is the fool, duped by trickster Daenerys, for the Iron Throne prize -- his assassination is almost casual, cool, inadvertent on her part, which makes her just as much a fool as him, but in a different way. Quote Viserys laughed. "They can't kill us. They can't shed blood here in the sacred city . . . but I can." He laid the point of his sword between Daenerys's breasts and slid it downward, over the curve of her belly. "I want what I came for," he told her. "I want the crown he promised me. He bought you, but he never paid for you. Tell him I want what I bargained for, or I'm taking you back. You and the eggs both. He can keep his bloody foal. I'll cut the bastard out and leave it for him." The sword point pushed through her silks and pricked at her navel. Viserys was weeping, she saw; weeping and laughing, both at the same time, this man who had once been her brother. 'The man who had been her brother' -- a very odd phrase, which Daenerys keeps repeating to herself in this scene, as I've highlighted. What it's showing us is that by placing him firmly in the past tense she's already distanced herself from what is happening, disowned him, written him off, come to terms with his inevitable death -- and most importantly has no intention of pleading for his life or intervening in any way to save him (on the contrary, in fact, she is the one who translates his words into Dothraki for Drogo's benefit, dealing the final blow via 'killing words' you could say, and sealing his fate). She is in the same position as trickster Will in the Prologue, who tacitly condones, and perhaps even can be judged to have facilitated, the death of his brother. Quote Distantly, as from far away, Dany heard her handmaid Jhiqui sobbing in fear, pleading that she dared not translate, that the khal would bind her and drag her behind his horse all the way up the Mother of Mountains. She put her arm around the girl. "Don't be afraid," she said. "I shall tell him." She did not know if she had enough words, yet when she was done Khal Drogo spoke a few brusque sentences in Dothraki, and she knew he understood. The sun of her life stepped down from the high bench. "What did he say?" the man who had been her brother asked her, flinching. It had grown so silent in the hall that she could hear the bells in Khal Drogo's hair, chiming softly with each step he took. His bloodriders followed him, like three copper shadows. Daenerys had gone cold all over. "He says you shall have a splendid golden crown that men shall tremble to behold." Viserys smiled and lowered his sword. That was the saddest thing, the thing that tore at her afterward . . . the way he smiled. "That was all I wanted," he said. "What was promised." When the sun of her life reached her, Dany slid an arm around his waist. The khal said a word, and his bloodriders leapt forward. Qotho seized the man who had been her brother by the arms. Haggo shattered his wrist with a single, sharp twist of his huge hands. Cohollo pulled the sword from his limp fingers. Even now Viserys did not understand. "No," he shouted, "you cannot touch me, I am the dragon, the dragon, and I will be crowned!" Khal Drogo unfastened his belt. The medallions were pure gold, massive and ornate, each one as large as a man's hand. He shouted a command. Cook slaves pulled a heavy iron stew pot from the firepit, dumped the stew onto the ground, and returned the pot to the flames. Drogo tossed in the belt and watched without expression as the medallions turned red and began to lose their shape. She could see fires dancing in the onyx of his eyes. A slave handed him a pair of thick horsehair mittens, and he pulled them on, never so much as looking at the man. Viserys began to scream the high, wordless scream of the coward facing death. He kicked and twisted, whimpered like a dog and wept like a child, but the Dothraki held him tight between them. Ser Jorah had made his way to Dany's side. He put a hand on her shoulder. "Turn away, my princess, I beg you." "No." She folded her arms across the swell of her belly, protectively. At the last, Viserys looked at her. "Sister, please . . . Dany, tell them . . . make them . . . sweet sister . . . " Viserys pleads for his life, his voice breaking, finally reduced to wordlessness, almost like the 'lackwit' Jinglebell facing Cat and beseeching her 'in mute appeal' -- all to no avail. Quote When the gold was half-melted and starting to run, Drogo reached into the flames, snatched out the pot. "Crown!" he roared. "Here. A crown for Cart King!" And upended the pot over the head of the man who had been her brother. Symbolically, this is like the lava flow of a volcanic eruption, echoing the Doom. Quote The sound Viserys Targaryen made when that hideous iron helmet covered his face was like nothing human. His feet hammered a frantic beat against the dirt floor, slowed, stopped. Thick globs of molten gold dripped down onto his chest, setting the scarlet silk to smoldering . . . yet no drop of blood was spilled. He was no dragon, Dany thought, curiously calm. Fire cannot kill a dragon. Finally, we should add that one 'bright roar' from Viserys is exchanged for another 'bright roar' in the form of his dragon namesake Viserion, who fittingly has a literally bright roar of 'gold, red and orange' flame! Some other drumming quotes of 'boom' and 'doom' for you to ponder: Quote A Dance with Dragons - Bran III Then, as he watched, a bearded man forced a captive down onto his knees before the heart tree. A white-haired woman stepped toward them through a drift of dark red leaves, a bronze sickle in her hand. "No," said Bran, "no, don't," but they could not hear him, no more than his father had. The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle round his throat, and slashed. And through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man's feet drummed against the earth … but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon Stark could taste the blood. Similarly, I think this tableau represents a blood betrayal -- in the murky grey-green depths of the suppressed history of the Starks. Additionally, many of the following quotes, referencing the 'boom-DOOM' of the drums, also hint at some treason associated with a living sacrifice of someone who didn't quite deserve to die (Viserys in the analogy above), presided over by those who are complicit in the death ritual (Dany as ultimate executioner in the analogy above): Quote A Storm of Swords - Catelyn VII Then the tabletop that the Smalljon had flung over Robb shifted, and her son struggled to his knees. He had an arrow in his side, a second in his leg, a third through his chest. Lord Walder raised a hand, and the music stopped, all but one drum. Catelyn heard the crash of distant battle, and closer the wild howling of a wolf. Grey Wind, she remembered too late. "Heh," Lord Walder cackled at Robb, "the King in the North arises. Seems we killed some of your men, Your Grace. Oh, but I'll make you an apology, that will mend them all again, heh." Catelyn grabbed a handful of Jinglebell Frey's long grey hair and dragged him out of his hiding place. "Lord Walder!" she shouted. "LORD WALDER!" The drum beat slow and sonorous, doom boom doom. "Enough," said Catelyn. "Enough, I say. You have repaid betrayal with betrayal, let it end." When she pressed her dagger to Jinglebell's throat, the memory of Bran's sickroom came back to her, with the feel of steel at her own throat. The drum went boom doom boomdoom boom doom. "Please," she said. "He is my son. My first son, and my last. Let him go. Let him go and I swear we will forget this . . . forget all you've done here. I swear it by the old gods and new, we . . . we will take no vengeance . . ." Lord Walder peered at her in mistrust. "Only a fool would believe such blather. D'you take me for a fool, my lady?" Quote A Storm of Swords - Catelyn VII Lord Walder snorted. "And why would I let him do that?" She pressed the blade deeper into Jinglebell's throat. The lackwit rolled his eyes at her in mute appeal. A foul stench assailed her nose, but she paid it no more mind than she did the sullen ceaseless pounding of that drum, boom doom boom doom boom doom. Ser Ryman and Black Walder were circling round her back, but Catelyn did not care. They could do as they wished with her; imprison her, rape her, kill her, it made no matter. She had lived too long, and Ned was waiting. It was Robb she feared for. "On my honor as a Tully," she told Lord Walder, "on my honor as a Stark, I will trade your boy's life for Robb's. A son for a son." Her hand shook so badly she was ringing Jinglebell's head. Boom, the drum sounded, boom doom boom doom. The old man's lips went in and out. The knife trembled in Catelyn's hand, slippery with sweat. "A son for a son, heh," he repeated. "But that's a grandson . . . and he never was much use." A man in dark armor and a pale pink cloak spotted with blood stepped up to Robb. "Jaime Lannister sends his regards." He thrust his longsword through her son's heart, and twisted. Robb had broken his word, but Catelyn kept hers. She tugged hard on Aegon's hair and sawed at his neck until the blade grated on bone. Blood ran hot over her fingers. His little bells were ringing, ringing, ringing, and the drum went boom doom boom. Catelyn is both executioner and sacrifice, of Jinglebell and Walder Frey respectively. Treachery all round. Notice the combination of the drums and bells which we also find in the Viserys execution scene, with Drogo's hair bells, the literal drumbeat, as well as the drumming of Viserys's feet. Quote A Dance with Dragons - A Ghost in Winterfell Then he heard the horn. A long low moan, it seemed to hang above the battlements, lingering in the black air, soaking deep into the bones of every man who heard it. All along the castle walls, sentries turned toward the sound, their hands tightening around the shafts of their spears. In the ruined halls and keeps of Winterfell, lords hushed other lords, horses nickered, and sleepers stirred in their dark corners. No sooner had the sound of the warhorn died away than a drum began to beat: BOOM doom BOOM doom BOOM doom. And a name passed from the lips of each man to the next, written in small white puffs of breath. Stannis, they whispered, Stannis is here, Stannis is come, Stannis, Stannis, Stannis. Theon shivered. Baratheon or Bolton, it made no matter to him. Stannis had made common cause with Jon Snow at the Wall, and Jon would take his head off in a heartbeat. Plucked from the clutches of one bastard to die at the hands of another, what a jape. Theon would have laughed aloud if he'd remembered how. Stannis the executioner; who is the sacrifice..? Quote A Dance with Dragons - A Ghost in Winterfell In the godswood the snow was still dissolving as it touched the earth. Steam rose off the hot pools, fragrant with the smell of moss and mud and decay. A warm fog hung in the air, turning the trees into sentinels, tall soldiers shrouded in cloaks of gloom. During daylight hours, the steamy wood was often full of northmen come to pray to the old gods, but at this hour Theon Greyjoy found he had it all to himself. And in the heart of the wood the weirwood waited with its knowing red eyes. Theon stopped by the edge of the pool and bowed his head before its carved red face. Even here he could hear the drumming, boom DOOM boom DOOM boom DOOM boom DOOM. Like distant thunder, the sound seemed to come from everywhere at once. The night was windless, the snow drifting straight down out of a cold black sky, yet the leaves of the heart tree were rustling his name. "Theon," they seemed to whisper, "Theon." Theon is the sacrifice -- ironically, his own treachery has brought him to this point, kneeling to meet his fate at the heart tree; who is the executioner...? Quote A Dance with Dragons - Jon XII That night he dreamt of wildlings howling from the woods, advancing to the moan of warhorns and the roll of drums. Boom DOOM boom DOOM boomDOOM came the sound, a thousand hearts with a single beat. Some had spears and some had bows and some had axes. Others rode on chariots made of bones, drawn by teams of dogs as big as ponies. Giants lumbered amongst them, forty feet tall, with mauls the size of oak trees. I'm not sure about this one. Jon is about to make the momentous decision of letting the Wildlings cross the Wall, which will lead to the mutiny with Jon being the one sacrificed. Quote A Dance with Dragons - Jon III Jon watched unblinking. He dare not appear squeamish before his brothers. He had ordered out two hundred men, more than half the garrison of Castle Black. Mounted in solemn sable ranks with tall spears in hand, they had drawn up their hoods to shadow their faces … and hide the fact that so many were greybeards and green boys. The free folk feared the Watch. Jon wanted them to take that fear with them to their new homes south of the Wall. The horn crashed amongst the logs and leaves and kindling. Within three heartbeats the whole pit was aflame. Clutching the bars of his cage with bound hands, Mance sobbed and begged. When the fire reached him he did a little dance. His screams became one long, wordless shriek of fear and pain. Within his cage, he fluttered like a burning leaf, a moth caught in a candle flame. Jon found himself remembering a song. Mance is the sacrifice; Melisandre, and by extension Stannis and Jon are complicit in the execution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unchained Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 3 hours ago, ravenous reader said: I'm only getting started, 'Kitten'... According to this analogy, Dany is in the position of Aurion, the would-be conqueror-usurper. She unseats her brother Viserys, thereby taking his place in the Targaryen accession order, by proxy assassin (this would be Drogo, who as her champion is analogous to the faceless men). Later, she'll also unseat Drogo, usurping his place at the head of the khalasar, again by means of a proxy assassin (Mirri Maz Dur). Both of these are 'blood betrayals' -- the first because Viserys is her brother, and the second because as her Dothraki husband he is her 'sun and stars,' 'blood of her blood.' The ostensible (i.e. on the surface and immediately apparent) price for her brother's assassination is also paid in gold (the gold medallions melted down for the 'golden crown'). The assassination is achieved without overt bloodshed, i.e. by fire, and accompanied by a 'bright roar' in more ways than one. However, the real , more insidious price paid and personal backlash suffered -- since assassinations ordered from the faceless men or other proxy assassins always exact a great personal cost (and the gold-medallion belt belonged to Drogo not Dany, so up until this point she had essentially failed to pay anything substantial for the service) -- the ultimate price paid, I'd propose, was the life of her unborn son Rhaego. Viserys even reinforces the stakes by pointing at her pregnant belly, threatening to 'cut out the bastard,' should he not receive what has been promised. By forfeiting her brother's life, Daenerys may have inadvertently forfeited that of her own child. @Unchained What do you think of this alternative interpretation of 'child payment'? I agree Dany kills her brother by proxy using the khal, but I do not think Drogo is analogous to a summoned savior who demands a prince price. Viserys' death is the part of the story where the hired individual returns for his prince or princess, but is refused and mocked. This is analagous to Cercei trying to kill Tyrion by proxy using Tywin at the trial and Theon meeting Balon for the first time in the books. The appeal to someone close who doesnt help and the person on trial getting a death sentence that is not quite deserved are both something I see as well. Compare Viserys' death scene to the Norse story where Loki drunkenly mocks all the gods and gets chained up Dany = Odin. Add in the story about the building of the wall in Asgard and imagine the builder coming back like Loki at Ragnarok and claiming what he was promised. Feet stomping was not something I had noticed, but Rumplstilskin (I'm curious how many different ways I have spelled that in the last few days) stomps his feet when he gets cheated out of his promised prince in some versions of the story. We can go into more detail somewhere we don't derail this thread. Orion the constellation looks like a man without a head. People who are too ambitious and make a mistake playing the game of thrones often end up without theirs. Orion was taken as a lover by Eos the goddess of the dawn, sister of the sun and moon. She had a tendancy to turn her lovers immortal but sometimes forgot to give them eternal youth causing them to age forever and regret they had ever thought being with her was a good idea. Orion is also sometimes killed by Artemis aka the Lightbringer for trying to seduce, or maybe rape, her, or maybe it was one of her virgin friends point is he could help himself. Sometimes he is killed by a scorpion sent by Gaia for trying to kill "every creature with hot blood in its veins". He is a pretty good person to base your ambitious meathead who gets in over his head and loses it on. Haven't checked, but doesnt Littlefinger say that hiring a faceless man would cost as much as buying an army and isn't "enough gold to buy an army" how much the Lannisters paid for Brightroar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted May 16, 2017 Author Share Posted May 16, 2017 On 14.05.2017 at 5:54 PM, The Fattest Leech said: By the way, just a quick question because I cannot remember for sure, but how many ships are currently in the Iron Fleet, and/or how many will there be once Dany or Euron get them? Could it be 79? That number is different... but huge thanks for this post... It has brought another ship to my attention... The Lionstar... There really is such star... and it's 79 light years from The Sun... Meet Regulus, AKA Alpha Leonis, AKA The Little King AKA The White Dwarf... Hmm... I'll put Lionstar's movements on a map, and maybe there will be some astronomical correlation... Spoiler Quote Regulus, also designated Alpha Leonis (α Leonis, abbreviated Alpha Leo, α Leo), is the brightest star in the constellation of Leo and one of the brightest stars in the night sky, lying approximately 79 light years from the Sun.[1] Regulus is a multiple star system composed of four stars that are organized into two pairs. The spectroscopic binary Regulus A consists of a blue-white main-sequence star and its companion, which has not yet been directly observed, but is probably a white dwarf.[5] Located farther away are Regulus B, C, and D, which are dim main-sequence stars. α Leonis (Latinized to Alpha Leonis) is the star's Bayer designation. The traditional name Rēgulus is Latin for 'prince' or 'little king'. In 2016, the International Astronomical Union organized a Working Group on Star Names (WGSN)[14] to catalog and standardize proper names for stars. The WGSN's first bulletin of July 2016[15] included a table of the first two batches of names approved by the WGSN; which included Regulus for this star. It is now so entered in the IAU Catalog of Star Names Regulus is 0.46 degree from the ecliptic, the closest of the bright stars, and is regularly occulted by the Moon. Occultations by the planets Mercury and Venus are possible but rare, as are occultations by asteroids. The last occultation of Regulus by a planet was on July 7, 1959, by Venus.[17] The next will occur on October 1, 2044, also by Venus. Other planets will not occult Regulus over the next few millennia because of their node positions. An occultation of Regulus by the asteroid 166 Rhodope was observed by 12 researchers from Portugal, Spain, Italy, and Greece on October 19, 2005. Differential bending of light was measured to be consistent with general relativity.[18] Regulus was occulted by the asteroid 163 Erigone in the early morning of March 20, 2014.[19] The center of the shadow path passed through New York and eastern Ontario, but no one is known to have seen it, due to cloud cover. The International Occultation Timing Association recorded no observations at all.[20] Although best seen in the evening in northern hemisphere in late winter and spring, Regulus appears at some time of night throughout the year except for about a month on either side of August 22, when the Sun is too near. Regulus passes through SOHO's LASCO C3 every August.[21] For most Earth observers, the heliacal rising of Regulus occurs in the first week of September. Every 8 years, Venus passes Regulus around the time of the star's heliacal rising, as on 5 September 2014. Spoiler Regulus is a multiple star system consisting of at least four stars. Regulus A is the dominant star, with a binary companion 177" distant that is thought to be physically related. Regulus D is a 12th magnitude companion at 212", which shares a common motion with the other stars.[22] Regulus A is a binary star consisting of a blue-white main sequence star of spectral type B7V, which is orbited by a star of at least 0.3 solar masses, which is probably a white dwarf. The two stars take approximately 40 days to complete an orbit around their common centre of mass. Given the extremely distorted shape of the primary, the relative orbital motion may be notably altered with respect to the two-body purely Keplerian scenario because of non-negligible long-term orbital perturbations affecting, for example, its orbital period. In other words, Kepler's third law, which holds exactly only for two point-like masses, would be no longer valid because of the highly distorted shape of the primary. Regulus A was long thought to be fairly young, only 50 - 100 million years old, calculated by comparing its temperature, luminosity, and mass. The existence of a white dwarf companion would mean that the system is at least a 1,000 million years old, just to account for the formation of the white dwarf. The discrepancy can be accounted for by a history of mass transfer onto a once-smaller Regulus A Rēgulus is Latin for 'prince' or 'little king';[26] its Greek equivalent (latinised) is Basiliscus.[27][28] It is also known as Qalb al-Asad, from the Arabic قلب الأسد, meaning 'the heart of the lion', a name already attested in the Greek Kardia Leontos[27][29] whose Latin equivalent is Cor Leōnis. The Arabic phrase is sometimes approximated as Kabelaced. In Chinese it is known as 轩辕十四, the Fourteenth Star of Xuanyuan, the Yellow Emperor. In Hindu astronomy, Regulus corresponds to the Nakshatra Magha ("the bountiful"). Babylonians called it Sharru ("the King"), and it marked the 15th ecliptic constellation. In India it was known as Maghā ("the Mighty"), in Sogdiana Magh ("the Great"), in Persia Miyan ("the Centre") and also as Venant, one of the four 'royal stars' of the Persian monarchy.[30] It was one of the fifteen Behenian stars known to medieval astrologers, associated with granite, mugwort, and the kabbalistic symbol . In MUL.APIN, Regulus is listed as LUGAL, meaning "the star that stands in the breast of the Lion:the King.". However, as of now I don't see any connection between Aurion and Regulus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted May 16, 2017 Author Share Posted May 16, 2017 14 hours ago, Unchained said: Haven't checked, but doesnt Littlefinger say that hiring a faceless man would cost as much as buying an army and isn't "enough gold to buy an army" how much the Lannisters paid for Brightroar? Quote Ned bowed, and turned on his heel without another word. He could feel Robert's eyes on his back. As he strode from the council chambers, the discussion resumed with scarcely a pause. "On Braavos there is a society called the Faceless Men," Grand Maester Pycelle offered. "Do you have any idea how costly they are?" Littlefinger complained. "You could hire an army of common sellswords for half the price, and that's for a merchant. I don't dare think what they might ask for a princess." The closing of the door behind him silenced the voices. Ser Boros Blount was stationed outside the chamber, wearing the long white cloak and armor of the Kingsguard. He gave Ned a quick, curious glance from the corner of his eye, but asked no questions. (GOT, Eddard VIII) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.