Jon Darry died wearing Rhaegar's armor at Battle of the Trident

[maudisdottir]

If George had wanted to be cagey, he wouldn't have said "Rhaegar was cremated, as is traditional for fallen Targaryens".  He could have still answered without lying about Rhaegar if he had said "It's traditional for fallen Targaryens to be cremated" and could have even added something vague like "so I suppose that's what happened". That's more like George - he can't exactly say "you'll have to keep reading" or "so you think he's dead, do you?" because then we'd know something was up.

But he doesn't flat out lie. If he doesn't want to spoil anything, he gives himself a loophole.

[Ygrain]

1 hour ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Three more questions, and let´s close.

That's funny, I read that chat awhile ago and I don't recall this part (though I may be mistaken, of course)

 

30 minutes ago, maudisdottir said:

If George had wanted to be cagey, he wouldn't have said "Rhaegar was cremated, as is traditional for fallen Targaryens".  He could have still answered without lying about Rhaegar if he had said "It's traditional for fallen Targaryens to be cremated" and could have even added something vague like "so I suppose that's what happened".

Exactly.

[Trigger Warning]

Exactly if he's going to flat out lie during a Q&A why even bother doing them?

[Universal Sword Donor]

4 hours ago, Trigger Warning said:

Exactly if he's going to flat out lie during a Q&A why even bother doing them?

To let people know he can and will lie to them!

GRRM is not your bitch! (God I hate that line).

 

[Voice]

On 5/15/2017 at 3:12 PM, ravenous reader said:

Another scene which potentially offers a strong parallel with this one is the opening execution scene in AGOT, in which Ice is also used, which is linked to the finding of the direwolves born 'with the dead' from the impaled lady direwolf, who as @Voice has argued can be read not only as a Lyanna symbol, but also as her ghost literally operating beyond the grave in some 'old gods' fashion (probably via the weirwoods).  I recommend giving his excellent thread 'Lyanna Stark -- a Gift from Old Gods' a read.  It's one of the best, most thought-provoking threads I've read all year.  Apart from the direwolf as Lyanna, it has also succeeded in convincing me that Jon was born via impromptu C-section (and not at the hands of a maester) and moreover that Lyanna may have succumbed either to that or another sword wound, even possibly been murdered!

 

Why thank you so very much for the compliment @ravenous reader! I'm glad you found it to be a thought-provoking theory, as that was most definitely my goal.

And, in reference to @Aegon VII's gearshift:

 

On 5/7/2017 at 8:49 PM, Aegon VII said:

Now I want to shift gears into examining the second incident we have at the trident, Nymeria attacking Joff and Lady’s subsequent execution. It was this examination that made me believe this theory actually has some legs.

 

I'll just point out that Ice has a very selective thirst. On the page, it only drank from Gared and Ned.

We also know, from the page, that it drank from Lady. We did not witness the actual drinking, but we know Ned requested Ice for Lady's execution.

If I am forgetting another victim of Ice, I do hope someone will point it out to me. I know Brienne uses Oathkeeper after Ned's execution for some new killing, but that, to me, is no longer Ned's Ice.

Thus I am impressed with a very interesting record for Ned's Ice (not to be confused with the original Ice):

• Gared – a northern fugitive from the Night's Watch... Executed in the name of "the king's justice"
• Lady – a northern fugitive from the Wolfswood... Executed in the name of "the king's justice"
• Eddard – a northern fugitive from Winterfell... Executed in the name of "the king's justice"

 

We are given strong precedent for the act of Northmen (and northern she-wolves) finding early graves in the name of the king's justice.

So many readers are quick to accept the idea that Lyanna would have swooned for a married father of two, while her father and brother were executed in the name of the king's justice, even though we have read of Arya beating up a prince on the Trident while her family was in good royal standing. Then there is another example of another she-wolf, Sansa, who became disgusted by the same prince after her family was not in good standing with the royal family. 

Given all of these precedents, readers still leap and cling to the idea that Lyanna would have broken with these (wolf blooded) characteristics and her own misgivings regarding men who do not keep to one bed.

This seems rather odd and off the mark, to me. It smacks of the same false sense of trope-ish security that made Ned's death such a shock (for first time/unsullied readers, anyway).

Rather than look at Lyanna's blood, circumstances, precedents, and analogs (Arya, Sansa), readers fall into a very romantic and tragic mindset that clouds their ability to view these things objectively.

If we look at the death of Lady, the tears of Sansa, the defiance of Arya, and the executions of three Starks (Rickard, Brandon, Eddard) objectively, I think we are left with a very clear precedent that Rhaegar's death at the Trident would have been joyous news for Lyanna of House Stark, rather than the Romeo and Juliet tragedy most readers seem to project upon her. GRRM preys upon such assumptions rather frequently, both in asoiaf and his other works (the 1000 Worlds series is a particularly relevant example, and is filled with motifs and storylines that are repeated in asoiaf).

 

On 5/7/2017 at 8:49 PM, Aegon VII said:

“When you donned that cloak, you promised to obey.”

 

I would very much like to hear your thoughts on this theory.

 

[maudisdottir]

Ned and Lady weren't "fugitives", not that it has any bearing on the rest of your post. Just not sure why you would call them that.

[Aegon VII]

On 5/18/2017 at 11:22 PM, ravenous reader said:

Thank you.  I'm also trying to demonstrate that there are far more constructive ways of disagreeing.. 

And I thank you for that. I hate how it seems discussions of theories are always discussed in terms of two people taking opposite sides on an argument. Instead a discussion of pros, cons, and alternate observations is far more constructive. I hate how every time I dive into a more crackpot theory it seems I must defend a theory that I know most likely isn't right. We should be examining all theory's that have evidence supporting them objectively, no need to take sides as it seems many do here.

On 5/18/2017 at 11:39 PM, maudisdottir said:

So again, to sum up - your way of addressing points that don't work with your theory is to say "George is lying":

I'm saying that those few hurdles are not insurmountable when we consider how easily identity and appearance are changed and confused in asoiaf. We've already seen Mance as three people, people change faces, these hurdles that would be huge in real life are not so much in a fantasy series. If an author is hiding the core mystery of the series it makes sense that he would walk that line of barely possible while still being genuine. I think one of the big issues in our discussion is that most people don't believe there's a way grrm could make mr=rt that would be genuine and not just stupid. I disagree.

On 5/19/2017 at 3:14 AM, Red Man Racey said:

Why exactly are we considering that? What indication have we ever been given that Rhaegar knew glamours? What textual reference gives any slight inclination towards even the remotest possibility that Rhaeager was capable of performing glamours? And where exactly would he have learned these glamours? Did Rhaegar spend significant time abroad in Essos that we're not aware of? Additionally, what indication do we have that Mance knows glamours? In fact, he needs Melisandre to perform the glamour on him for the Lord o' Bones switcheroo; funny he didn't do it himself since he's Rhaeagar and knows glamours and everything.

As I mentioned in the OP, this theory is based on many other smaller ones that I would be happy to explain if asked about. So, evidence supporting Rhaegar learning glamours. First we already know BR learned how to use glamours as maynard plumm while wearing a gem (moonstone). I believe Rhaegar was getting information in his youth from either BR, GoHH, or both. Yes, he could have found something in a book that told him he needed to be a warrior, but I find it more likely it was a BR dream or he heard it from gohh. For BR, I believe there's evidence that he's reached out in dreams to others. Bran, euron, sweetrobin in that order of likeliness. This supports him also doing it to Rhaegar, and explains rhaegar's obsession with prophecy. As for gohh, it comes down to jennys song. she trades prophetic dreams in exchange for hearing the song with the brotherhood. She even says what other song is there. I think this is the a clue from grrm that jennys song is the sweet sad song, (sometimes sad soft) that Rhaegar is talked about playing multiple times and that mance plays in wf to signal to begin the escape (which is again, fits with mr=rt). When rhaegar is described singing it, it floors people. Here's a quote by selmy, When you heard him play his high harp with the silver strings and sing of twilights and tears and the death of kings, you could not but feel that he was singing of himself and those he loved. So, between br dreams and exchanging songs for gohh prophecies I think grrm has shown he had the means to learn. Then we have the ToHH and this quote The crown prince wore the armor he would die in: gleaming black plate with the three-headed dragon of his House wrought in rubies on the breast. A plume of scarlet silk streamed behind him when he rode, and it seemed no lance could touch him. So, while wearing rubies it seemed no lance could touch him. Maybe its just an expression, or maybe it seemed that way because of glamour type magic. I also highlighted scarlet silk because of it's relation to mance. The next piece of evidence is Loras cheating at the Kings tourney. grrm made intentional parallels between both tourneys. In simplest terms, Loras and Rhaegar both give a stark girl roses, with the color being switched. These parallels may very well extend to them both cheating. So, you may say it's not much evidence, but how much can we really be given about a guy who died years and years before the story begins whom we only see in dreams and visions? Lastly we have already seen the parallel between gems and glamours. BR and his moonstone and Mel with Mance's Ruby. We also have Mel's ruby which there is a lot of evidence glamors her to look young. Funny then how when Rhaegars death is talked about the rubies are constantly brought up. We only hear of rhaegar wearing the armor with rubies twice, at the tohh and at the trident. this theory proposes he was using glamour-esque magic in both situations.

 

On 5/19/2017 at 5:21 AM, Ygrain said:

Who am I? A fucking liguist, if you please, and you haven't been paying attention to the way the authors speak about events. You may disagree as much as you like, but your claim is completely incorrect. The question pertained to a past event, already described in the books already published. In this context, providing an answer in the past tense with incorrect information would be a lie, and GRRM absolutely has no need to lie, all he needed to say was "sorry, time to wrap this up, you will learn the details of the battle of the Trident and its aftermath in the later books, bye". See? No reveal of your "big twist", no lies. Win-win.

As a linguist I hope you can appreciate that when evaluating a statement it is 99% of the time not a black and white truth or lie. You may feel that an author is obliged to speak in a certain tense about his own work but that doesn't mean grrm does, and I don't. If I want to mislead someone about something I'm going to use misleading language. If there's a valid interpretation that's not a lie that it's not a lie. People view these things differently. Other valid interpreations in my mind would be if he were talking about Rhaegar Frey. The question doesn't talk about targaryan at all, only grrm in his answer. Other answer would be that RT=MR=RS and RS was cremated therefore RT was cremated. And again, ultimately, he could just be lying. All the other reasons don't have to be there at all, he could just be lying. Maybe he treats this central mystery differently. Also, I highlighted that line of yours because it's exactly what grrm does after saying rhaegar was cremated.. so he does do what you said he would have done, only he gave a short answer in addition to it that can be intrepretted in multiple ways.

Quote

Lol, I'm imagining Val and Dalla hastily putting up Mance's tent and making fire smoke, whenever Mance feels like talking to Jon

Grrm has gone to great extents to show that people see what they expect to see. If that's unbelievable though there's always him just being glamoured the whole time..

Quote

 

Also, when Jon enters the tent for the first time, he sees there:

Tormund - broad and short

Styr - lean and tallER than Tormund. We don't know how much taller than Tormund but definitely nowhere on par with e.g. Duncan the Tall because such an extreme would have had to be mentioned. He is not taller only in comparison with Tormund, either, because his son is described as a"younger, shorter version of his father", but not notably short in the way Tormund is. That makes Styr about "normally tall"  - perhaps taller than Jon himself at that time, but not exceptionally tall.

And then, in the company of these two, Mance is described as of middling height - meaning, his height falls between Tormund and Styr, with nothing special about it.

Perhaps in discussing heights I failed to point out a major part of my thinking. In a population of people, height=athletic ability. I have great confidence that the majority of both wildling leaders north of the wall, and highborn south of the wall, are tall. Good genes prevail. So when evaluating the poeple in the tent, he notes tormund as short, even though tormund would probably be a pretty average height. Maybe an inch or so shorter than highborn average still taller than the average man. Styr is tall, as you said, his son is shorter than styr but average height. So in a room of leaders, Mance is middling height also keeping in mind he's spent what, like a decade north of the wall in hard conditions with terrible nutrition. That will take it's toll.

On 5/19/2017 at 6:07 AM, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Pity, that. So I only have his word for it, and his very creative interpretation, not supported even by his cherry-picked quote (assuming it is genuine).

We don't only have his word for it. As I said if his word's not good enough we can dig deeper. I went ahead and posted on the small questions and lo and behold, we have the link to the original questions! I wish you would have waited for us to get the actual text, for as you will see, grrm does in fact ignore the first part of the question, and then immediately after answering, decides it's time to wrap things up.

[Jon Nieve:] Who recovered Rhaegar's corpse (if anyone did it) and where was he buried (if he was buried)?

[George R. R. Martin:] Rhaegar was cremated, as is traditional for fallen Targaryens.

Quote

All the claims here are false. Yes, it can be denied, it doesn't look like a "refusal" in the slightest, more like GRRM thought that he gave a satisfying answer. No, the "three more questions and that's it" part isn't "changing the subject". Considering that the chat did end three Q&A's later, it seems that GRRM had told the truth.

Here's my original statement again to reference, "George only gave the vaguest possible answer to the second part, and completely ignored the first.  Then, he made a deliberate effort to change the subject even though he had time to answer more questions!  It cannot be denied that George R. R. Martin intentionally refused to discuss who recovered Rhaegar's corpse.  Any reasonable person would admit that this revelation actually supports the belief that Rhaegar may not be dead."

1) It was a two part question who recovered the corpse and WHERE was he buried. GRRM chose to say the method in which he left this earth, rather than commenting on either who found the corpse or where the cremation took place. I guess our disagreement comes down to whether grrm knew that he was not truly answering either part of the two part question or not. I think GRRM is a pretty damn careful with his language, so I have to believe he knew exactly what he was doing.

2) I disagree. The fact that he was telling the truth changes nothing, of course he would stay true to his word. By wrapping up the chat at that time it does change the subject from the previous question to the fact that only three more can be asked. This discourages follow up questions about rhaegar in addition to literally changing what people are thinking about.

Quote

 

So? Doesn't change the fact that you're wrong. You've been proven wrong beyond reasonable doubt, and now are holding to unreasonable doubt, which isn't a consideration even in a criminal trial, and I won't concern myself with it, either.

Or you could accept that we have come to differing conclusions. You can also accept that mr=rt is a theory that been around forever and will continue to be viewed my many as a possibility. Instead of just thinking that we're all not capable of understanding what you understand, please accept the possibility that nobody knows anything for sure and we all may be wrong about any and everything. No need to try to shut down theories because you view what's possible in a fantasy theory differently than others.

Here's the link to the original question in all it's glory. He doesn't answer who found the corpse, doesn't answer where the cremation took place, and then discourages follow up questions by stating that the chat will be over in three questions.

On 5/25/2017 at 2:03 AM, Shmedricko said:

-Asshai.com Forum Chat

If this link doesn't work check out the small questions thread

 

[Aemon Targaryen]

1 hour ago, Aegon VII said:

So, evidence supporting Rhaegar learning glamours. First we already know BR learned how to use glamours as maynard plumm while wearing a gem (moonstone). I believe Rhaegar was getting information in his youth from either BR, GoHH, or both. Yes, he could have found something in a book that told him he needed to be a warrior, but I find it more likely it was a BR dream or he heard it from gohh. For BR, I believe there's evidence that he's reached out in dreams to others. Bran, euron, sweetrobin in that order of likeliness. This supports him also doing it to Rhaegar, and explains rhaegar's obsession with prophecy. As for gohh, it comes down to jennys song. she trades prophetic dreams in exchange for hearing the song with the brotherhood. She even says what other song is there. I think this is the a clue from grrm that jennys song is the sweet sad song, (sometimes sad soft) that Rhaegar is talked about playing multiple times and that mance plays in wf to signal to begin the escape (which is again, fits with mr=rt). When rhaegar is described singing it, it floors people. Here's a quote by selmy, When you heard him play his high harp with the silver strings and sing of twilights and tears and the death of kings, you could not but feel that he was singing of himself and those he loved. So, between br dreams and exchanging songs for gohh prophecies I think grrm has shown he had the means to learn. Then we have the ToHH and this quote The crown prince wore the armor he would die in: gleaming black plate with the three-headed dragon of his House wrought in rubies on the breast. A plume of scarlet silk streamed behind him when he rode, and it seemed no lance could touch him. So, while wearing rubies it seemed no lance could touch him. Maybe its just an expression, or maybe it seemed that way because of glamour type magic. I also highlighted scarlet silk because of it's relation to mance. The next piece of evidence is Loras cheating at the Kings tourney. grrm made intentional parallels between both tourneys. In simplest terms, Loras and Rhaegar both give a stark girl roses, with the color being switched. These parallels may very well extend to them both cheating. So, you may say it's not much evidence, but how much can we really be given about a guy who died years and years before the story begins whom we only see in dreams and visions? Lastly we have already seen the parallel between gems and glamours. BR and his moonstone and Mel with Mance's Ruby. We also have Mel's ruby which there is a lot of evidence glamors her to look young. Funny then how when Rhaegars death is talked about the rubies are constantly brought up. We only hear of rhaegar wearing the armor with rubies twice, at the tohh and at the trident. this theory proposes he was using glamour-esque magic in both situations.

Just a small textual point on the Rhaegar glamour theory (with which I agree) -- the use of the adjective "gleaming" to describe Rhaegar's armour also seems potentially significant (gleaming/glamour).

Interestingly enough, there are two likely etymologies for the word "glamour" -- one is that it comes from "grammar", in the sense of occult learning (Rhaegar and his books anyone?), and the other less likely one being from the old German "gleam" - a brilliant light.

(Of course, it is far from being determinative, as the word "gleaming" is commonly used elsewhere in asoiaf).

[Ygrain]

5 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

As a linguist I hope you can appreciate that when evaluating a statement it is 99% of the time not a black and white truth or lie. You may feel that an author is obliged to speak in a certain tense about his own work but that doesn't mean grrm does, and I don't. If I want to mislead someone about something I'm going to use misleading language. If there's a valid interpretation that's not a lie that it's not a lie. People view these things differently.

Unless GRRM is a time-travelling extraterrestrial, his mind is wired the same way as everyone else's - i.e., with linear concept of time. Past, present and future are not interchangeable, unless you have devised some new grammar of your own.

 

5 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

Other valid interpreations in my mind would be if he were talking about Rhaegar Frey. The question doesn't talk about targaryan at all, only grrm in his answer. Other answer would be that RT=MR=RS and RS was cremated therefore RT was cremated. And again, ultimately, he could just be lying. All the other reasons don't have to be there at all, he could just be lying. Maybe he treats this central mystery differently.

The interview is from 2008. No dead Rhaegar Frey back then, and the context of the question is clearly Rhaegar Targaryen because that's the way GRRM answered. If there could be uncertainty which Rhaegar was meant, GRRM would have asked to clarify.

5 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

Also, I highlighted that line of yours because it's exactly what grrm does after saying rhaegar was cremated.. so he does do what you said he would have done, only he gave a short answer in addition to it that can be intrepretted in multiple ways.

You somehow miss the crucial point. The answer I made up completely avoids providing any sort of information (except that there is some information to be learned later). The answer GRRM gave does provide factual information, which he was not obliged to give if he wanted to keep it secret.

 

5 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

Perhaps in discussing heights I failed to point out a major part of my thinking. In a population of people, height=athletic ability. I have great confidence that the majority of both wildling leaders north of the wall, and highborn south of the wall, are tall.

Quotes, please. And, just from the top of my head, Eddard Stark is not particularly tall - Cat is disappointed that he is not as tall as Brandon was. Rattleshirt and Varamyr are small. So what exactly is this leader = tall stereotype based on? This is GRRM, not Tolkien.

5 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

Good genes prevail. So when evaluating the poeple in the tent, he notes tormund as short, even though tormund would probably be a pretty average height. Maybe an inch or so shorter than highborn average still taller than the average man. Styr is tall, as you said, his son is shorter than styr but average height. So in a room of leaders, Mance is middling height

Mental gymnastics at its finest indeed. The word "short" doesn't mean what it does because it doesn't fit my theory. Besides, you need to provide us that list of tall Wildling leaders.

5 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

also keeping in mind he's spent what, like a decade north of the wall in hard conditions with terrible nutrition. That will take it's toll.

Now that's funny - so, the condition and nutrition up north are good enough to breed a race of supertall leaders, but not good enough for Rhaegar Targaryen to keep his height? You can't have it both ways, honey.

Not to mention that this claim about conditions and nutrition is blatantly ignorant. Those affect a person height during the growth period, i.e. people suffering from malnutrition in their childhood won't grow very tall. Once a person reaches their full height, there is nothing that malnutrition can do to the length of their bones, only to the muscle mass. Towards the old age (and we're talking 60+), the spine can sag a bit, leading to the loss of a couple of centimetres (2-3 or so), but not enough to go from tall to middling. Various spine defects can attribute for a lower height but those are clearly visible. So, unless you are aware of some medical condition that can reduce the length of leg bones, stop using this flat-earth argument.

5 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

Here's my original statement again to reference, "George only gave the vaguest possible answer to the second part,

Untrue. I gave the vaguest possible answer, i.e. a variation on "keep reading". GRRM provided factual information: "Rhaegar was cremated".

5 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

and completely ignored the first.  Then, he made a deliberate effort to change the subject even though he had time to answer more questions!  It cannot be denied that George R. R. Martin intentionally refused to discuss who recovered Rhaegar's corpse.  Any reasonable person would admit that this revelation actually supports the belief that Rhaegar may not be dead."

Any reasonable person can see that there might be something to who recovered the corpse but that doesn't change the fact that the person in question is dead. The mystery about the funeral =/= the person being alive.

 

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

20 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

Perhaps in discussing heights I failed to point out a major part of my thinking. In a population of people, height=athletic ability. I have great confidence that the majority of both wildling leaders north of the wall, and highborn south of the wall, are tall. Good genes prevail. So when evaluating the poeple in the tent, he notes tormund as short, even though tormund would probably be a pretty average height. Maybe an inch or so shorter than highborn average still taller than the average man.

The thing is: Rhaegar would've been seen through the same glasses, in company of big men, lords and knights, seen by noble boys and girls accustomed to big men. So if you insist on "tall" and "highborn tall" being two different things, then Rhaegar was definitely "highborn tall".

Also, your assumptions don't trump actual information from the books. You can't claim that "Tormund wasn't short, because I don't think he was short", and expect us to accept it as a bona fide argument. Here, you're openly making up stuff against what's printed black on white. We're discussing "A Song of Ice And Fire" by George R. R. Martin here, therefore the books take precedence before your assumptions.

19 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

We don't only have his word for it. As I said if his word's not good enough we can dig deeper. I went ahead and posted on the small questions and lo and behold, we have the link to the original questions!

OK... but next time, when you say "we have the link", it would be best to actually give the aforementioned link. Seriously.

19 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

I wish you would have waited for us to get the actual text, for as you will see, grrm does in fact ignore the first part of the question, and then immediately after answering, decides it's time to wrap things up.

[Jon Nieve:] Who recovered Rhaegar's corpse (if anyone did it) and where was he buried (if he was buried)?

[George R. R. Martin:] Rhaegar was cremated, as is traditional for fallen Targaryens.

Here's my original statement again to reference, "George only gave the vaguest possible answer to the second part, and completely ignored the first.  Then, he made a deliberate effort to change the subject even though he had time to answer more questions!  It cannot be denied that George R. R. Martin intentionally refused to discuss who recovered Rhaegar's corpse.  Any reasonable person would admit that this revelation actually supports the belief that Rhaegar may not be dead."

1) It was a two part question who recovered the corpse and WHERE was he buried. GRRM chose to say the method in which he left this earth, rather than commenting on either who found the corpse

The question wasn't "who found the corpse", but "who recovered the corpse". What does it mean "recovered"? Found? Taken somewhere? I don't know. It isn't specified. Any reasonable person would think that GRRM answered to the best of his ability, but not wasting too much time into parsing a vague question.

19 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

or where the cremation took place. I guess our disagreement comes down to whether grrm knew that he was not truly answering either part of the two part question or not. I think GRRM is a pretty damn careful with his language, so I have to believe he knew exactly what he was doing.

2) I disagree. The fact that he was telling the truth changes nothing, of course he would stay true to his word. By wrapping up the chat at that time it does change the subject from the previous question to the fact that only three more can be asked. This discourages follow up questions

So you took time to find the interview, but didn't bother actually reading it? It's a pity. There are no follow up questions in this chat. Not a single one. So, GRRM make special efforts to discourage something that never happened anyway?

19 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

about rhaegar in addition to literally changing what people are thinking about.

You know what would've achieved exactly the same? Just pressing "Enter". He presses enter, JN pastes another question on another subject. Hence his "only three questions left" served the sole purpose of informing people that there were only three questions left - because all the sneaky goals you're attributing to him would be achieved just as well by not saying anything special at all.

19 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

Or you could accept that we have come to differing conclusions.

Yes, and yours is false. Sorry, can't be helped. And the fact that you have this theory is not, in itself, an argument supporting it. OK, I might give a theory some credit, but sooner or later I will expect it repaid with substantial evidence and solid reasoning. If you don't bring it, and nobody else supporting it brings it, either, then - I'm sorry that I'm not sorry.

[maudisdottir]

Quote

[Jon Nieve:] Who recovered Rhaegar's corpse (if anyone did it) and where was he buried (if he was buried)?

[George R. R. Martin:] Rhaegar was cremated, as is traditional for fallen Targaryens.

Maybe no-one did it. Maybe he was cremated right there where he died. Therefore, when they cremated him, "as is traditional for fallen Targaryens" (so we know SOMEONE must have) they didn't necessarily have to "recover" him, because he was right there. They would only need to "recover" him if they were taking him somewhere to cremate him, but we don't know that they did. So GRRM wasn't required to answer that part of the question if there wasn't an answer to give.

[hitman47]

I got this theory that Robert = Rhaegar  i think that Robert died then Rhaegar  put on him his suit and he took Robert's face. Why he did it ? Its simple he knew that KL was taken that targs lost. But for real he just wanted Lyanna but she was dead so he was you know drinking

[Ygrain]

10 hours ago, maudisdottir said:

Maybe no-one did it. Maybe he was cremated right there where he died. Therefore, when they cremated him, "as is traditional for fallen Targaryens" (so we know SOMEONE must have) they didn't necessarily have to "recover" him, because he was right there. They would only need to "recover" him if they were taking him somewhere to cremate him, but we don't know that they did. So GRRM wasn't required to answer that part of the question if there wasn't an answer to give.

I tend to read "recover" as "fish from the stream and prepare for funeral" :-)

It's either a complete non-issue, or there might have been some arguments and stuff over the body, but a body there was, and it was cremated.

BTW, is it ever mentioned what happened with the bodies of Aerys, Elia and her children? I'd like to be ready when there comes a thread that XY=Aerys in glamour.

 

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

1 hour ago, hitman47 said:

I got this theory that Robert = Rhaegar  i think that Robert died then Rhaegar  put on him his suit and he took Robert's face. Why he did it ? Its simple he knew that KL was taken that targs lost. But for real he just wanted Lyanna but she was dead so he was you know drinking

That's all of it?

Other kids at least work on their prank theories.