Dullest characters

[Cas Stark]

I like Brienne as a character, but 80% of her POV chapters were filler and not very interesting.  I found nothing at all redeemable about Quentyn's POV, his character was a nice dull boy in over his head.  I don't find Sansa's chapters dull, I just never find much in them that makes me change my initial opinion of her as someone that I don't particularly respect.

[Nevets]

23 minutes ago, Traverys said:

I think Daenerys was supposed to add a sense of building tension as you go along. For example, despite all the intrigue, betrayals, and wars going on in the south, the slow progression of the Others adds a sense of impending doom that's just brilliant. Even with all the crazy interesting and dramatic things happening in the story, we're often reminded that the Others are on the march and whatever they bring it isn't good. The introduction of dragons to the mix, for a while, felt like it was going to be such a game changer. It had me on the edge of my seat thinking about what point she would arrive and what it would mean for many of my favorite characters. Now...the majority of those characters are dead...  I'm sure GRRM will write an interesting point for her to land in Westeros, but it'll be with this new wave of players (Aegon, Dorne, etc.) that I'm not really invested so strongly in.

Is it bad that I don't care if Aegon is a fake, a Targaryen, or a Blackfyre? It seems like it's going to play out the same way regardless so meh.

Unfortunately, the Others are north of the Wall, not in east Essos.  If anything, her story is losing tension.  Her chapters in Dance were tedious and repetitive.    Aegon I don't care for either, and I tend to think he is a red herring who won't last long enough for us to find out if he is real or not.  Also, if he does happen to be real., there is likely no way for us as readers to know that for sure.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

18 minutes ago, Nevets said:

Unfortunately, the Others are north of the Wall, not in east Essos.  If anything, her story is losing tension.  Her chapters in Dance were tedious and repetitive.    Aegon I don't care for either, and I tend to think he is a red herring who won't last long enough for us to find out if he is real or not.  Also, if he does happen to be real., there is likely no way for us as readers to know that for sure.

Well, and even if he's fake how can we know for sure? From illiryo's mouth? Or Varys mouth? But it wasn't be the same if those characters were to say he's aegon targaryen?

[Shi Qiang]

Dullest characters

1. Jon Snow - the King of Dull himself.  Ned was more interesting than this dude. He puts the stark in Stark. I would like the books better if he stays dead after the julius caesaring that the crows gave him.
2. Davos Seaworth - His POVs do not interest me.  I guess its his rags to riches, blue collar way of seeing the world that doesn't make me like him.
3. Samwell Tarly - I know its unfair to Sam but the white walkers and the wall do not interest me.  Jon drags Samwell down.  To Sam's credit his story got better after he left the wall.  I think his time at the citadel will be much better than his time at the wall.
4. Sansa Stark - I don't need to go on about Sansa, she's never been able to hold my attention.

[spauldo17]

5 hours ago, David Selig said:

I said "almost nothing" and "so far" , which is obviously true. We are 5 books in of a 7 books series and she has barely affected the main plot.

That's simply untrue.  Everything she does is affecting the main plot.  If you mean to say she hasn't made her move to the throne then yes, but everything she does is building up to that moment.  That's what the plot is.  Just because her actions haven't yet borne fruit doesn't mean that she isn't part of the plot.  To suggest she isn't part of the main plot belies a short sightedness on your part. 

[spauldo17]

5 hours ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

Exactly, if we assume that the important part of the plot is Westeros she haven't done much to changes how things work there. Aegon (wheter he is fake or not) have done more in one book that she in 5 books.

You're mistaking the climax of an action as being the only significant part.  She has been laying plans down to take over the Iron Throne the entire time, and they haven't yet come to fruition.  But she's still carrying them out.  If at the end of the book she's sitting atop the Iron Throne and that's how her arc ends then the entire series she has been affecting the plot. 

[spauldo17]

5 hours ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

what? And why is she not in the center of the story for about 5 books????????? Even if she has dragons and they are the key to kill the others, SHE STILL NEEDS TO GO TO WESTEROS GOD DAMNIT

You're mistaken again.  She doesn't have to be geographically in the center to be in the center of the plot.  The plot is an ever changing concept, and it's all about gaining the Iron Throne and taking out White Walkers.  She has plans to do the first and most people believe her dragons are the key to the second.  So yes, she is the plot. 

[Ser Loras The Gay]

1 minute ago, spauldo17 said:

You're mistaken again.  She doesn't have to be geographically in the center to be in the center of the plot.  The plot is an ever changing concept, and it's all about gaining the Iron Throne and taking out White Walkers.  She has plans to do the first and most people believe her dragons are the key to the second.  So yes, she is the plot. 

*She'll be the plot

[Sea Dragon]

2 minutes ago, spauldo17 said:

You're mistaken again.  She doesn't have to be geographically in the center to be in the center of the plot.  The plot is an ever changing concept, and it's all about gaining the Iron Throne and taking out White Walkers.  She has plans to do the first and most people believe her dragons are the key to the second.  So yes, she is the plot. 

I agree with this statement here. I was trying to say something similar earlier but the forum was acting weird on my end and I could not get a full comment in the quote box. The way things are happening all over is creating the perfect scenario for her to walk in to wither Dothraki hoard, as the outline says.

http://www.businessinsider.com/game-of-thrones-was-supposed-to-be-a-trilogy-2015-2

[Ser Loras The Gay]

20 minutes ago, Sea Dragon said:

I agree with this statement here. I was trying to say something similar earlier but the forum was acting weird on my end and I could not get a full comment in the quote box. The way things are happening all over is creating the perfect scenario for her to walk in to wither Dothraki hoard, as the outline says.

http://www.businessinsider.com/game-of-thrones-was-supposed-to-be-a-trilogy-2015-2

Okay, but what does it prove? Just proves that he didn't like or didn't feel that doing a trilogy was the best way to approach the story, and more, just shows that most of things he had planned LONG ago aren't 100% going to happen.

[Sea Dragon]

1 minute ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

Okay, but what does it prove? Just proves that he didn't like or didn't feel that doing a trilogy was the best way to approach the story, and more, just shows that most of things he had planned LONG ago aren't 100% going to happen.

I agree that much of what is listed will not happen, but we do still see Daenerys's arc going the same way (minus Viserys), because she is in Essos learning while everyone else messes up Westeros. She will get her Dothraki back and head home, finally, to fix the broken things and people will welcome her.

I guess we really do not see eye to eye on Daenerys, but it seems pretty obvious that the author is setting her up as the hero.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

7 minutes ago, Sea Dragon said:

I agree that much of what is listed will not happen, but we do still see Daenerys's arc going the same way (minus Viserys), because she is in Essos learning while everyone else messes up Westeros. She will get her Dothraki back and head home, finally, to fix the broken things and people will welcome her.

I guess we really do not see eye to eye on Daenerys, but it seems pretty obvious that the author is setting her up as the hero.

Yeah I can't say and I don't think anyone can say for sure Dany will be a villain, or her role won't be the biggest. But we are just saying that Martin has made a case about desconstructing various tropes among fantasy stories. And the "real hero" one is something he can easily desconstruct at the end.

[Magnar of Skagos]

Dullest POV characters? Danaerys, Brienne, Sansa, Arya, Arianne.

[Makk]

There are two sides to it. The events of what is happening to the character and how interesting it is to get the characters thoughts and perspective of those events.

Personally I don't like Bran, Aeron, or to a lesser extent Brienne. There is some interesting stuff that happens in their chapters though. I really liked the most recent Aeron winds chapter for instance.

 

[Ser Loras The Gay]

48 minutes ago, Maelys I Blackfyre said:

Dullest POV characters? Danaerys, Brienne, Sansa, Arya, Arianne.

You can choose out of the POV my dude.

[Quoth the raven,]

23 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

FAegon.  Bloody boring.

I can't believe so many of you think he has an important part to play.

He is the symptom of GRRM's boredom with writing the conclusion of this saga.

Despite his purple eyes, he is completely inconsequential.

I would not dismiss him so casually.  His role is to father Dany's children.  They will be the parents of the new generation of Dragonlords.

 

[Quoth the raven,]

The dullest character to me is Jon.  I believe the story is about the the battle for the throne, hence the title of book 1.  The north and the wall are just distractions. 

[Traverys]

4 hours ago, Sea Dragon said:

I agree with this statement here. I was trying to say something similar earlier but the forum was acting weird on my end and I could not get a full comment in the quote box. The way things are happening all over is creating the perfect scenario for her to walk in to wither Dothraki hoard, as the outline says.

http://www.businessinsider.com/game-of-thrones-was-supposed-to-be-a-trilogy-2015-2

I'm not sure the outline is helping your case, to be honest. She's described as one of the primary threads that make it into each book of the proposed trilogy, but there's nothing in it that establishes her as a hero.

It's interesting that he had Catelyn killed by the Others in his original conception, which would imply they would make her corpse into a wight. Funny that he changed up how things played out, but still wanted to include unCatelyn (Lady Stoneheart). He apparently had some kind of scene or interaction planned that he couldn't bring himself to cut when the plot changed.

3 hours ago, Sea Dragon said:

I agree that much of what is listed will not happen, but we do still see Daenerys's arc going the same way (minus Viserys), because she is in Essos learning while everyone else messes up Westeros. She will get her Dothraki back and head home, finally, to fix the broken things and people will welcome her.

I guess we really do not see eye to eye on Daenerys, but it seems pretty obvious that the author is setting her up as the hero.

I still don't see how it's obvious. I swear I'm not trying to be difficult at all. Assuming Daenerys does rally the Dothraki behind her, I don't see how dragons and savages would be well suited to "fix" anything. They both tend to be better at the breaking. I'll ease up and admit to the possibility she may be able to radically change the Dothraki's culture, but it can also be argued that she tried to do the same thing in Slaver's Bay unsuccessfully. And dragons... well, there's no reasoning with dragons. And she has hardly even tried to train them beyond dracarys. Going back to her successes and failures in Slaver's Bay, in the end she only managed to end slavery in Meereen and even that small victory left her very dissatisfied. She sought compromise in order to bring peace to her people, but it turns out that she can't stomach it. She spends every chapter after that convincing herself she's happy, but it's obvious she's not. 

She comes to a fundamental conclusion the end of ADwD that always catches my eye:

Quote

I gave you good counsel. Save your spears and swords for the Seven Kingdoms, I told you. Leave Meereen to the Meereenese and go west, I said. You would not listen.

“I had to take Meereen or see my children starve along the march.” Dany could still see the trail of corpses she had left behind her crossing the Red Waste. It was not a sight she wished to see again. “I had to take Meereen to feed my people.”

You took Meereen, he told her, yet still you lingered. “To be a queen.”

You are a queen, her bear said. In Westeros.

“It is such a long way,” she complained. “I was tired, Jorah. I was weary of war. I wanted to rest, to laugh, to plant trees and see them grow. I am only a young girl.”

and

Quote

No. You are the blood of the dragon. The whispering was growing fainter, as if Ser Jorah were falling farther behind. Dragons plant no trees. Remember that. Remember who you are, what you were made to be. Remember your words.

“Fire and Blood,” Daenerys told the swaying grass.

That doesn't read as a hero to me at all, but that's my opinion. I want to point out that it doesn't make her a villain either. But she doesn't "plant trees" or "fix broken things." She brings fire and blood. Dragons destroy. She started out her liberation of slaves with fire and blood in Astapor, but changes tactics along the way. There's some evidence in the text that suggests her own actions frightened her, and Barristan mentions Targaryen madness so she starts to worry about if she is also mad (which I don't think she is). This causes her to try a different, more peaceful approach. She has a lapse here and there, but overall she tries. But peace doesn't get her what she wants. and she decides she wants nothing to do with it (demonstrated by her taking off her "floppy ears" tokar during the fights at the pits).

Even if she saves the day by being the primary weapon that defeats the Others, that doesn't mean everyone is going to support her claim. And how will she have to proceed from there? Fire and blood. We also get hints that the Citadel has an ancient conspiracy against magic and dragons, so that would even provide a method for people to defy her claim.

I'll end with the ominous prophecy we get in one of Arianne's POV chapters in TWoW:

"They were dancing. In my dream. And everywhere the dragons danced the people died."

[Heartofwinter]

Jon Con for me, I'm also one of very few people who weren't bored by Quentyn.

[GhostNymeria]

10 hours ago, Sea Dragon said:

Because e Others won't even get there until she does. It will be timed that way. Her dragons will be very big and their fires will be even hotter with the age. And her warriors will be more blooded then.

Because then not all main POV characters knew she was still alive yet. Her story grew and moved to the front of the story.

It's clearly not going to as simple as fire and dragons = good, ice and WW = bad. "Fire consumes, but cold preserves." There needs to be a balance. Dany is not going to be the "one" hero of the story, because she (or her dragons at least) represents fire in the story. She is going to play a big part in the War of the Dawn, but fire is not going to "win" over ice.