Dullest characters

[Traverys]

On 5/10/2017 at 3:39 PM, Ser Loras The Gay said:

People on this thread were making a case about the fall of epicness and badassery that Dany's chapters had in the past. At meereen he just sits around planning stuff and people were used to have her thrive to achieve what she wanted, and doing decisions that would affect her directly, like killing the astapor master of slaves, killing the mage at the HotU, burning Qarth down in search of her rightful treasures etc. Now she just send orders and fucks with Daario, that's why people seem her as boring, not me, but I can understand the reason behind it.

You'd think people would be more open to having their favorite character disliked by others in a thread that's about personal opinions.

I had read up to ADwD before I ever ventured on to websites and forums based around the series. I was all about Catelyn Stark as a woman, I pretty much died inside when she did, and cheered when unCat made her first appearance. I was shocked when I read a lot of posts or essays that are very opposite to my opinion, but was like "Oh, well I can see that..." and "Oh, yup, she definitely did do that." Do I like her any less because I admitted those things? Nope, maybe I even like her more because it makes her nuanced.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

18 minutes ago, Traverys said:

You'd think people would be more open to having their favorite character disliked by others in a thread that's about personal opinions.

I had read up to ADwD before I ever ventured on to websites and forums based around the series. I was all about Catelyn Stark as a woman, I pretty much died inside when she did, and cheered when unCat made her first appearance. I was shocked when I read a lot of posts or essays that are very opposite to my opinion, but was like "Oh, well I can see that..." and "Oh, yup, she definitely did do that." Do I like her any less because I admitted those things? Nope, maybe I even like her more because it makes her nuanced.

We can only hope more people could be more like you.

[Traverys]

Bran, Bran, Bran... I'm at the beginning of A Storm of Swords and this is where his chapters get dull for me. Like I've said before in this thread, I look forward to the Reeds telling the story of the Tourney at Harrenhal, but otherwise it's just a lot of traveling and warging. I like Bran a lot as a character. He's so bright for an 11-year-old, yet still remains a child in many interesting ways (e.g., his budding attraction to Meera, his annoyance at the wisdom Jojen tries to offer him, etc.). My ability to read his chapters is really gonna hinge on their placement... hopefully sandwiched between two others with more action going on. /FlipsPage... Davos! Now that's what I'm talking about!

Speaking of Davos, you could easily argue that he is just a cameraman for Stannis and his cause (in the same way Catelyn, Sansa, and Areo are for Robb/Edmure, Lannisters/Tyrells, and Martells, respectively). Anyone feel a sense of dread when they flip to a Davos chapter?

[Drogonthedread]

10 hours ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

Meereen was not necessary to her. By any means. She simply needed boats and meereen was not the first place to look for it. She already had the mercenaries and the Insulied. She could have simply taken some boats and sailed to Westeros.

So she should have moved to westeros leaving it behind .  its all well and good for me but the only problem is we will then be having the same guys shouting how disgusting she had left the place as it is and other things like how boring is she keeps winning while other character suffers..

Hers is the story of truely a conflict of human heart and a character who is always given two worse choices to choose from and manages to find a third alternative that no one sees which Is better than those two choices ..

She will be damned if she did or damned if she dont

You do realize For the most selfless thing a character done in the series and she is being blamed for it ..

Blame the author not the character ...blame him for his gardening and not finishing the series and keep stalling her plot because he want other storylines to catch up with her ..

Many here says that her chapters get repetitive and boring in the dance ...I ask you guys can you point me a single storyline which is not repetitive or boring in the last two books ..Jon and tyrion and cersei chapters were repetitive and boring and brienne's were too and arya's and I don't want to get into dorne martells and Greyjoys  ..

but dany alone gets picked in this and try to make the entire chapters are about her fucking daario ..

Two thirds of story in the last two book is about dany and characters getting to dany 

Dorne and martells chapters

Euron and victarion's chapters

Sam's chapters 

Tyrion chapters all converge and move towards dany 

So dany has affected the story and westeros more so than YG in wrsteros ..even in the KL they fear about dany in the east whose heritage that can't be questioned and not the YG ..

He may have gone to westeros in two chapters but as tyrion pointed out he hasn't done a single thing that can make him an equal to daenrys and what she has achieved..and we will see how quickly he dies as well when the next book comes which will show us how minor he was in the story.  

 

 

[Drogonthedread]

6 hours ago, Traverys said:

You'd think people would be more open to having their favorite character disliked by others in a thread that's about personal opinions.

I had read up to ADwD before I ever ventured on to websites and forums based around the series. I was all about Catelyn Stark as a woman, I pretty much died inside when she did, and cheered when unCat made her first appearance. I was shocked when I read a lot of posts or essays that are very opposite to my opinion, but was like "Oh, well I can see that..." and "Oh, yup, she definitely did do that." Do I like her any less because I admitted those things? Nope, maybe I even like her more because it makes her nuanced.

If only people did that and left it will be good but you can see there are posts how they would like to see her dead as well ( such hate and dislike to a fictional character makes me always laugh)

But if someone says how she is only ordering others and fucking daario in dance then people will respond...

I like cat as a character and she is in my top 3 and agree with what you say about cat and its same for me with dany ..the amount of hate that cat and dany received surprised me when I joined the forums but it become quickly where the hate is coking from.  

The most funny thing is the people who have said dany is boring in this thread usually spend half of their time debating about dany and half their posts will be about dany .this is funny and interesting to me because I won't spend my time about things I find boring like dorne and brienne and sam and Davos. 

 

And I agree with what you said about davos as well I see him same as well ..infact I will say this if it had been another POV or stannis himself had been the pOV then stannis wouldn't be having this much fans ...

[ravenous reader]

13 minutes ago, Drogonthedread said:

The most funny thing is the people who have said dany is boring in this thread usually spend half of their time debating about dany and half their posts will be about dany .

No, that's not true.  Statistically, I spend most of my time talking about Bran, although my favourite character is hands-down Jaime.

The dragons are more interesting than Dany.  Bran would still be interesting without Summer; would Dany still be interesting without Drogon..?

I am tired of GRRM's crush on Dany, or whatever she represents for him.  Enough already.  Come on-- let go!

[Drogonthedread]

51 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

No, that's not true.  Statistically, I spend most of my time talking about Bran, although my favourite character is hands-down Jaime.

The dragons are more interesting than Dany.  Bran would still be interesting without Summer; would Dany still be interesting without Drogon..?

I am tired of GRRM's crush on Dany, or whatever she represents for him.  Enough already.  Come on-- let go!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah another thing that has been said which is meant to insult those who like her as a character i guess...its really pathetic and ridiculous if you ask me 

The countless threads rereads and debates about her and the emotions she brings in haters and fans alike are all example of the fact she is ..

Her's is the storyline that fetched GRRM an hugo award and it happened when she had no dragons ..

 

A stupid thing to say that GRRm favors dany...or like he doesn't do it for other characters.  How come we never hear about His crush or whatever on Jon ,Arya ,Tyrion or bran insert anyone who want here ..or asking him to let go of them already ..thearrogance is just astounding 

 

[teej6]

 

1 hour ago, Drogonthedread said:

 

Yeah another thing that has been said which is meant to insult those who like her as a character i guess...its really pathetic and ridiculous if you ask me 

The countless threads rereads and debates about her and the emotions she brings in haters and fans alike are all example of the fact she is ..

Her's is the storyline that fetched GRRM an hugo award and it happened when she had no dragons ..

 

A stupid thing to say that GRRm favors dany...or like he doesn't do it for other characters.  How come we never hear about His crush or whatever on Jon ,Arya ,Tyrion or bran insert anyone who want here ..or asking him to let go of them already ..thearrogance is just astounding 

 

Huh? Care to elaborate on the bolded section. Yes, there is a dislike for Dany in the fandom, just as there is for Jon or Cat or Sansa. You make it sound like Dany fans are being victimized for their support of Dany. I call that BS. From the time I spent on this forum, now that the Stannis fanbase has all but dissappeared, the Dany fans come across to me as the most rabid, and some of them constantly go on other threads, specially Jon-centric threads, to diminish or sideline his importance in the story. So forgive me if I don't feel for the Dany is always unjustly disliked crowd. I'm indifferent to Dany's storyline and her character always seemed entitled and power hungry to me. However, her chapters (even the ADWD ones) are, for me, definitely not the most boring in the series. 

[Traverys]

1 hour ago, teej6 said:

 

Huh? Care to elaborate on the bolded section. Yes, there is a dislike for Dany in the fandom, just as there is for Jon or Cat or Sansa. You make it sound like Dany fans are being victimized for their support of Dany. I call that BS. From the time I spent on this forum, now that the Stannis fanbase has all but dissappeared, the Dany fans come across to me as the most rabid, and some of them constantly go on other threads, specially Jon-centric threads, to diminish or sideline his importance in the story. So forgive me if I don't feel for the Dany is always unjustly disliked crowd. I'm indifferent to Dany's storyline and her character always seemed entitled and power hungry to me. However, her chapters (even the ADWD ones) are, for me, definitely not the most boring in the series. 

Similar thoughts to your observation. Daenerys is a heavily flawed character, not unlike almost every other character in the series. However, point out a flaw (e.g., entitlement), a negative trait (e.g., driven by emotions), a hypocrisy (e.g., walking around calling lords usurpers as she conquers an entire culture), or calling out her plot armor (i.e., major characters have died making lesser mistakes than she has) and you call the swarm of Daenerys fans down onto you.

A little humility in the fanbase is all I ask for, just as I've humbled my love for Catelyn and Sansa.

/waits for swarm.

[Drogonthedread]

50 minutes ago, teej6 said:

 

Huh? Care to elaborate on the bolded section. Yes, there is a dislike for Dany in the fandom, just as there is for Jon or Cat or Sansa. You make it sound like Dany fans are being victimized for their support of Dany. I call that BS. From the time I spent on this forum, now that the Stannis fanbase has all but dissappeared, the Dany fans come across to me as the most rabid, and some of them constantly go on other threads, specially Jon-centric threads, to diminish or sideline his importance in the story. So forgive me if I don't feel for the Dany is always unjustly disliked crowd. I'm indifferent to Dany's storyline and her character always seemed entitled and power hungry to me. However, her chapters (even the ADWD ones) are, for me, definitely not the most boring in the series. 

Dany's chapters from AGOT was released as separate novella titled " Blood of the Dragon " and it recieved Hugo award in 1997..

For the rest of your comment  ...in one of my comments I spoke about catelyn getting the hate too...

As for the rabid fandom thing ..am going to assume you are joking because Jon fans must be last ones to play the victim card  ..I agree it happens slightly now and I have noticed it and I must simply say what goes around ,comes around ..after 5 years its bound to have happen but  I know how this place had been before 

And Iam sure you too know how this place was used to be and how many vitriolic threads opened about dany on daily basis  when like you say when the disappeared stannis fans and most of jonfans were in their prime ..

And if you are being honest you will see that its no way near to that ...and it hadn't stopped I can show Jon fans coming into daby threads and doing the same thing and undermining dany and all that ..

Every character will have fans and those who don't like the character ..I don't care about that everyone can have their own opinion and taste 

But you dont see people saying without the visons and hodor bran won't be half as interesting as he is or without the mystery of the his parentage Jon won't be having this much interest ....when did GRRm show any preferrence towards dany alone do you have anyone saying GRrM should let go of his favoritism and boner to Jon or arya or tyrion . .I have only seen people say something like that towards dany ...andthats what i was speaking about ..

[Drogonthedread]

19 minutes ago, Traverys said:

Similar thoughts to your observation. Daenerys is a heavily flawed character, not unlike almost every other character in the series. However, point out a flaw (e.g., entitlement), a negative trait (e.g., driven by emotions), a hypocrisy (e.g., walking around calling lords usurpers as she conquers an entire culture), or calling out her plot armor (i.e., major characters have died making lesser mistakes than she has) and you call the swarm of Daenerys fans down onto you.

A little humility in the fanbase is all I ask for, just as I've humbled my love for Catelyn and Sansa.

/waits for swarm.

So you expect people to be just mum about it in a discussion thread ...what's the use of it when you aren't going to hear what the other side as to say ..

For example, entitlement ..is there any character who is not entitled in the story.can you say sansa and cat are not entitled..or is there any character who has done more to the people when she doesn't have to ..so much for entitlement right?

 

[Traverys]

18 minutes ago, Drogonthedread said:

So you expect people to be just mum about it in a discussion thread ...what's the use of it when you aren't going to hear what the other side as to say ..

For example, entitlement ..is there any character who is not entitled in the story.can you say sansa and cat are not entitled..or is there any character who has done more to the people when she doesn't have to ..so much for entitlement right?

 

Shall I conclude myself swarmed?

See... I point out flaws, and you jump into the fray and accuse characters I've stated I liked (Sansa isn't even in my top 3) are guilty of it too. Instead of saying "yes, she's flawed" you feel a need to defend her instead of accepting not everyone will like her.

But now enlighten me how Catelyn and Sansa have demonstrated, in text, entitlement and I will feel a need to respond to your critique in comparison to Daenerys. Otherwise, it's just the usual "I love Daenerys and everyone else must love her too" that further deteriorates her likeability to mature, critical readers of the series.

 

[Orphalesion]

On 09/05/2017 at 10:22 PM, zandru said:

Well, I keep contrasting her with her "altogether unsatisfactory" little sister. I think a lot of this is a matter of taste. Some prefer the beautiful, helpless Disney princess waiting to be rescued. Sansa grows some, but she's nowhere near Arya's level, even yet. Sansa doesn't seem to learn as fast, doesn't seem to take much iniative. Going down to the Godswood every night? Right - to see if her White Knight has arrived to rescue her yet. Big achievement.

1) Well and I suppose some people prefer sociopathic, angry Squirrrels, huh? 

2) Well thank heavens she's nowhere near Arya's "level" and I hope she won't sink quite that low.

3) Being carried around Westeros by a succession of people and being handed everything displays initiative?

Note: No these statements do not completely reflect my view of Arya, but if you can make sweeping generalization about fans of one character, I can make sweeping generalizations about yours.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

1 hour ago, Drogonthedread said:

For example, entitlement ..is there any character who is not entitled in the story.can you say sansa and cat are not entitled..or is there any character who has done more to the people when she doesn't have to ..so much for entitlement right?

 

1 hour ago, Traverys said:

But now enlighten me how Catelyn and Sansa have demonstrated, in text, entitlement and I will feel a need to respond to your critique in comparison to Daenerys. Otherwise, it's just the usual "I love Daenerys and everyone else must love her too" that further deteriorates her likeability to mature, critical readers of the series.

No text provided showing the entitlement, and more, Sansa was a pretty dumb and entitled on her first chapters but she grows learning how the world really works for those who doesn't have a title or a good last name. She has to change her appearance and learn how to use her sexuality to get things done. Catelyn was a caring mother, and never took things for granted when the war started. She lost his children and her husband. She did everything she could trying to save the people she loved. How they were showing entitlement I ask you? If you were to say Cersei, Joffrey, Quentyn, and others I'd agree with you, but Sansa and Cat are not entitled.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

1 hour ago, Orphalesion said:

1) Well and I suppose some people prefer sociopathic, angry Squirrrels, huh?

This sentence resumes everything I feel about Arya. She's just a little girl angry about everyone trying to kill everyone who caused her pain. How good a character like this can be?

[Traverys]

4 hours ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

 

No text provided showing the entitlement, and more, Sansa was a pretty dumb and entitled on her first chapters but she grows learning how the world really works for those who doesn't have a title or a good last name. She has to change her appearance and learn how to use her sexuality to get things done. Catelyn was a caring mother, and never took things for granted when the war started. She lost his children and her husband. She did everything she could trying to save the people she loved. How they were showing entitlement I ask you? If you were to say Cersei, Joffrey, Quentyn, and others I'd agree with you, but Sansa and Cat are not entitled.

I was really getting at how if someone could really provide evidence that either Catelyn and Sansa had a false sense of entitlement I would respond with "fair enough" or "yup, you're right."

There's no universally perfect or good character (thank the gods) in the series. Trying to get a hardcore Daenerys fan to admit that is like pulling teeth. May as well give her a whitelight saber and call her Mary Sue.

That being said, back to topic: I find Ygritte to be a very dull character that bogs down earlier Jon Snow chapters. I have no idea what the general consensus about her is, so I wouldn't be surprised if there is some dissenting opinions. I like the little bits of (uncreepy) romance we're finally privy to in the series and see nothing wrong with her as a lover for Jon Snow... It's incredibly sad how things turn out, in the end. And a little tragic how Jon Snow was going to ultimately betray her in the name of duty.

[ravenous reader]

14 hours ago, Traverys said:

Bran, Bran, Bran... I'm at the beginning of A Storm of Swords and this is where his chapters get dull for me. Like I've said before in this thread, I look forward to the Reeds telling the story of the Tourney at Harrenhal, but otherwise it's just a lot of traveling and warging. I like Bran a lot as a character. He's so bright for an 11-year-old, yet still remains a child in many interesting ways (e.g., his budding attraction to Meera, his annoyance at the wisdom Jojen tries to offer him, etc.). My ability to read his chapters is really gonna hinge on their placement... hopefully sandwiched between two others with more action going on.

How dare you insult Bran!  I can read about and discuss the variegations of 'rustling' for hours..!  

7 hours ago, Traverys said:

Shall I conclude myself swarmed?

See... I point out flaws, and you jump into the fray and accuse characters I've stated I liked (Sansa isn't even in my top 3) are guilty of it too. Instead of saying "yes, she's flawed" you feel a need to defend her instead of accepting not everyone will like her.

But now enlighten me how Catelyn and Sansa have demonstrated, in text, entitlement and I will feel a need to respond to your critique in comparison to Daenerys. Otherwise, it's just the usual "I love Daenerys and everyone else must love her too" that further deteriorates her likeability to mature, critical readers of the series.

GRRM puts her on a pedestal, a bit like the Jorah-Dany dynamic.  Then, should one not worship along with him like a schoolboy smitten with the cheerleader, one is 'swarmed'!  It is known.

 

Quote

@Drogonthedread said:  But you dont see people saying without the visons and hodor bran won't be half as interesting as he is or without the mystery of the his parentage Jon won't be having this much interest ....when did GRRm show any preferrence towards dany alone do you have anyone saying GRrM should let go of his favoritism and boner to Jon or arya or tyrion . .I have only seen people say something like that towards dany ...andthats what i was speaking about ..

It pleases me that you have recognised, subconsciously at least, that Hodor is analogous to the dragons.  Dany's symbolism is her main point of interest for me; and I enjoy some of her chapters for that reason.  Wouldn't it be great if Bran could make the leap from one giant to another and skinchange Drogon?  That would be soooo perfect; then we wouldn't need Dany anymore!  

 

[El Guapo]

1 hour ago, Traverys said:

There's no universally perfect or good character (thank the gods) in the series. Trying to get a hardcore Daenerys fan to admit that is like pulling teeth. May as well give her a whitelight saber and call her Mary Sue.

 

Yeah this some serious BS right here. I know no Dany fan that doesn't admit that the is very gray character . That is why we love her.

[Philokles]

6 hours ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

This sentence resumes everything I feel about Arya. She's just a little girl angry about everyone trying to kill everyone who caused her pain. How good a character like this can be?

That is such a gross oversimplification of the depth of Arya's character.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

2 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said:

That is such a gross oversimplification of the depth of Arya's character.

Because I was doing a gross oversimplification of her character hahaha