Dullest characters

[El Guapo]

14 hours ago, Bowen Marsh said:

Jon Snow is the dullest and most uninteresting character to me.  What I did to him was a mercy killing.

 

Damn straight. You sir are a hero who did the world a great service.

[spauldo17]

22 minutes ago, Traverys said:

"Courtesy is a lady's armor," or at least that's what Sansa was raised to believe. I have fairly (non-radical) feminist beliefs, so it surprised me when I ended up liking Sansa's chapters. I think GRRM does a good job bringing to life a young highborn girl that is content to be a lady. She's young, she's a prisoner in a deadly decadent court, she has no friends (and can't make any), and, worst of all, her betrothed despises her and is probably a sociopath. Not doing anything was probably the smartest thing for her to do, though I definitely see how that reads as boring.

I'll put it this way, I'm withholding judgement on her until I see her arc through to completion.  If she does, indeed, use her diplomatic skills and courtship to affect the story, I may change my mind on her.  You've at least convinced me to be open minded about her

[Traverys]

1 hour ago, spauldo17 said:

So you're either delusional, you misunderstand the meaning of the word dull, or you simply have a vendetta against these two and you're trying to stir up the hornets nest.

If anyone can possibly read the books and say that those two are dull, I'm not certain their mental capacities are functioning fully.

Jon: Youngest commander of the Knight's watch ever.  Has a direwolf as his personal body guard, known as one of the better swordsman in Westeros, spends time with the wildlings, lives, and even thrives. Defeats an army of wildlings and brokers a tentative peace between the two groups. Gets brought back from the dead when he's betrayed. Has the ability to warg into the aforementioned Direwolf.  And oh yeah, he may be a legitimate Heir to the throne and the product of the greatest love story in the book.

Dany: Young princess spirited away from Westeros to avoid the slaughter of Targaryens, the last remaining heir (allegedly) to the Iron Throne. Gets burned alive and comes out with three dragons that are loyal to her. gathers an army.  Literally stops slavery Abe Lincoln style. Now hell bent on coming back to Westeros with her army and wreaking havoc.

 

You literally chose the two people the entire series is probably about.

Public education fails us again...

Daenerys' methods and style were, broadly and narrowly, very unlike Lincoln. Everytime I see people compare Daenerys to Lincoln I want to pull my hair out. Their initial goals weren't even the same.

[spauldo17]

31 minutes ago, David Selig said:

ROFL. All of the stuff you listed has nothing to do with how interesting a character is. Stop embarrassing yourself.

Agree to disagree.  Interesting means they hold a high level of "interest."  In a book a character holds your interest if they positively advance the plot, affect change within the world in which the book is written, and carry story lines that you want to read.  Since the story line of Dany and Jon is arguably the main story line in  the series, both of these characters are, inherently, interesting. They both serve to advance the plot in many ways, and affect the world and the people around them. 

Therefore they are, in fact, interesting. Even if you don't like them

[spauldo17]

4 minutes ago, Traverys said:

Public education fails us again...

Daenerys' methods and style were, broadly and narrowly, very unlike Lincoln. Everytime I see people compare Daenerys to Lincoln I want to pull my hair out.

I compared them in the net outcome, not the method.  Though were you applying even an ounce of logic and reasoning you could have surmised as much. I'm pretty certain you've never heard someone compare the two in their methods, unless Dany ran for president and attempted to legally abolish slavery, or Abe Lincoln owned a few dragons we don't know about.  

The net outcome was the same, slavery was abolished. Therefore, they have similarities.

You're either daft or being purposely obtuse, neither are becoming.

[Traverys]

6 minutes ago, spauldo17 said:

I'll put it this way, I'm withholding judgement on her until I see her arc through to completion.  If she does, indeed, use her diplomatic skills and courtship to affect the story, I may change my mind on her.  You've at least convinced me to be open minded about her

Well hey! I wasn't even trying to do that, per se. I'm flattered.

I'd like to think a lady can be just as dangerous as a woman warrior. I'll be very disappointed if she doesn't rise into a courtmaster under Littlefinger's tutelage. Her chapters will be unbearably boring on rereads if she stays static like she has, I'll give you that. So first step: wisen up to the fact Littlefinger is playing her like he does everyone else. I suspect she has already realized this, but now she has to actually do something about it.

[zandru]

1 hour ago, HaeSuse said:

I love Sansa. Something about being the victim of every single situation, I enjoy. I hope, and have since I first read the books, 10-ish years ago, that she sits the Iron Throne, or her kids do.

Yeah - she'd be a perfect tool for Petyr Baelish, the Invisible King. And she'd never even know it.

[HoodedCrow]

Yes, Quentyn! The only functiond I can think of for his character are to give Dorne a reason to hate Dany, show the mercenaries, and release the two dragon youngsters( while showing that they are dangerous even to a Targ lite)

Brienne in her search for the Starks. Show how difficult they are to find and what a hassle true oathkeeping would be, and bring Jaime back to LSH so that he (they)can be involved in rescuing Sansa?

Dany in Meereen. Stalling. Show how unpleasant and difficult ruling would be and give her a strong rescuing character.

Brans journey to the cave has too much travel.

 

Most boring dinner party...10 people like Quentyn

 

[Ser Loras The Gay]

2 hours ago, spauldo17 said:

I accept your premise, but I'm curious to know exactly why you find them boring?

I don't find them boring. But people do. And people do because of their personality I guess. Because their feats talk on their own.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

5 minutes ago, HoodedCrow said:

Most boring dinner party...10 people like Quentyn

HAHAHAHAHAHAH I'd start another red weeding.

[Raisin' Bran]

Quentyn hands down. Most POV's I think, hey we havent read about them for a while. I hesitate to read his chapters for fear of the boredom.

[HaeSuse]

23 minutes ago, zandru said:

Yeah - she'd be a perfect tool for Petyr Baelish, the Invisible King. And she'd never even know it.

Possibly. I still see her as emerging in the end as one of the greatest players in the game. 

[Ser Loras The Gay]

Just now, HaeSuse said:

Possibly. I still see her as emerging in the end as one of the greatest players in the game. 

I pray everyday for her arise as a big player. Maybe geting the Vale for her and even WF.

[HaeSuse]

1 hour ago, spauldo17 said:

It's interesting, the way you view Jon and Dany, I view Sansa.  I can't stand her chapters because she doesn't DO anything.  She simply lets others use her as a pawn in their plans, and her inner monologues mostly consist of, "poor me, look what other awful thing has happened to me" She takes no initiative, take no action, she's simply there.  If it weren't for her last name she would've been dead books ago.

All of the things you say are true. But what do you expect from a pre-teen --> teen girl in her situation. I think it is amazing, slow, crescendo to what I hope to be an amazing climactic moment of triumph. She has the potential to emerge as the most ruthless player of the game of thrones, directly because of her abuse.

[HaeSuse]

Just now, Ser Loras The Gay said:

I pray everyday for her arise as a big player. Maybe geting the Vale for her and even WF.

Same. 100%. Though I still see a chance of her Stark buttcheeks sitting on the iron throne (or her husband, whoever that might be). To be honest, her and Tyrion really coming together and consummating the marriage, and uniting Stark/Lannister, would make me super happy. 

[The Ned's Little Girl]

1 hour ago, spauldo17 said:

It's interesting, the way you view Jon and Dany, I view Sansa.  I can't stand her chapters because she doesn't DO anything.  She simply lets others use her as a pawn in their plans, and her inner monologues mostly consist of, "poor me, look what other awful thing has happened to me" She takes no initiative, take no action, she's simply there.  If it weren't for her last name she would've been dead books ago.

Here's what I have to say about your understanding of Sansa:

2 hours ago, spauldo17 said:

If anyone can possibly read the books and say that those two are Sansa is dull, I'm not certain their mental capacities are functioning fully.

 

[winter daughter]

31 minutes ago, Traverys said:

She takes no initiative, take no action, she's simply there.

She saved Dantos. (and LF used this opportunity and planned her escape.)

She visited the godswood for months to meet Dantos and nobody(not even Tyrion or Varys)suspected anything. and that's because she knew how to control her tongue, play dumb and flew under the radar.

 

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, winter daughter said:

She saved Dantos. (and LF used this opportunity and planned her escape.)

She visited the godswood for months to meet Dantos and nobody(not even Tyrion or Varys)suspected anything. and that's because she knew how to control her tongue, play dumb and flew under the radar.

 

Except when she blabbed to Dontos about the Tyrell marriage.....and thus ended up under LF control and wanted for murder.

[David Selig]

42 minutes ago, spauldo17 said:

Agree to disagree.  Interesting means they hold a high level of "interest."  In a book a character holds your interest if they positively advance the plot, affect change within the world in which the book is written, and carry story lines that you want to read.

Maybe for you that's the case, but that's hardly universal. Personally I couldn't care less if a character positively advance the plot or affects changes within the world, that's not how I judge them.

 

Quote

Since the story line of Dany and Jon is arguably the main story line in  the series, both of these characters are, inherently, interesting. They both serve to advance the plot in many ways, and affect the world and the people around them. 

It's not the main plot line so far. The main plot is the battle for the Iron Throne and both of them has had almost nothing to do with it. But more importantly, being involved in the main plotline doesn't make a character interesting by itself. Libraries are chokc full of deadly boring main characters who advance the plot of their books.

[Traverys]

6 minutes ago, winter daughter said:

She saved Dantos. (and LF used this opportunity and planned her escape.)

She visited the godswood for months to meet Dantos and nobody(not even Tyrion or Varys)suspected anything. and that's because she knew how to control her tongue, play dumb and flew under the radar.

 

I'm not sure how that ended up as me quoted!

I was gonna point that out earlier in arguing that she is more capable of being manipulative than she realizes. For whatever reason, she almost instinctively knew what to say to Joffrey to save Ser Donto's life. Later on in the same book we see her manipulate him again:

Quote

Halfway along the route, a wailing woman forced her way between two watchmen and ran out into the street in front of the king and his companions, holding the corpse of her dead baby above her head. It was blue and swollen, grotesque, but the real horror was the mother’s eyes. Joffrey looked for a moment as if he meant to ride her down, but Sansa Stark leaned over and said something to him. The king fumbled in his purse, and flung the woman a silver stag. The coin bounced off the child and rolled away, under the legs of the gold cloaks and into the crowd, where a dozen men began to fight for it. The mother never once blinked. Her skinny arms were trembling from the dead weight of her son.

Martin, George R.R.. A Clash of Kings: A Song of Ice and Fire: Book Two (p. 445). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

So, it would seem she has a penchant for saving innocents from Joffrey's cruelty. Regardless of motivation, she has the tools to do the job, now she just has to use it on someone other than Joffrey. I'm sure confidence also plays into it. She's been emotionally and physically beaten down. Battered people don't just wake up one day and feel like they are in control and able to be free from being a victim. Just look at Craster's wives:

Quote

“How is it you came to know this?” the Old Bear asked him. “From one of Craster’s wives?”

“Yes, my lord,” Jon confessed.

“I would sooner not tell you which. She was frightened and wanted help.”

“The wide world is full of people wanting help, Jon. Would that some could find the courage to help themselves. Craster sprawls in his loft even now, stinking of wine and lost to sense. On his board below lies a sharp new axe. Were it me, I’d name it “Answered Prayer’ and make an end.”

Yes. Jon thought of Gilly. She and her sisters. They were nineteen, and Craster was one, but . . .

Martin, George R.R.. A Clash of Kings: A Song of Ice and Fire: Book Two (p. 282). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.