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Just now, Ser Loras The Gay said:

I'd have never thought that so many people dislike Daenerys in the series, damn.

i didn't hate her at the beginning but she has grown to be very obnoxious, arrogant, and presumptuous throughout the books. i can write you a 10 pages of essay explaining why i think that too. You'd think I'm kidding but I'm not.

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2 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

I'd have never thought that so many people dislike Daenerys in the series, damn.

For me, it isn't that I dislike the character, it was that reading about her sitting in a pyramid in Meereen for so long got really, really dull.

I was ecstatic when she rode away on Drogon, and we picked up with her later dealing with a little real hardship in her life again. I look forward to the continuation of her arc in TWOW.

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3 minutes ago, RevaM said:

i didn't hate her at the beginning but she has grown to be very obnoxious, arrogant, and presumptuous throughout the books. i can write you a 10 pages of essay explaining why i think that too. You'd think I'm kidding but I'm not.

Don't need, I understand why so many people think that way, her chapters have grown tiring with time.

 

2 minutes ago, weirwoodface said:

For me, it isn't that I dislike the character, it was that reading about her sitting in a pyramid in Meereen for so long got really, really dull.

I was ecstatic when she rode away on Drogon, and we picked up with her later dealing with a little real hardship in her life again. I look forward to the continuation of her arc in TWOW.

Ikr! When she gets to the pits and mount Drogon I was hyped as fuck. But now we need to know what will happen to her and drogon. Maybe the dotraki will be afraid of the dragon and pass through or she'll make them carry her back to meereen. I don't know haha

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11 hours ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

*She'll be the plot

Again you're showing shortsightedness. Just because her plot line hasn't culminated yet, doesn't mean it's not the plot.  That's moronic.  It's like saying that Harry Potter had zero plot for 6.9 books because the whole goal was to defeat Voldemort and he didn't do it until the end. Or that there was no plot in Lord of the Rings until the end because the goal was to destroy the ring and Frodo kept getting side tracked and only destroyed it at the end.  You do realize how anti climactic a book would be with out the plot build up?  That's the point of a book, to take you through a journey and arrive at the climactic moment.

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11 hours ago, Sea Dragon said:

I agree with this statement here. I was trying to say something similar earlier but the forum was acting weird on my end and I could not get a full comment in the quote box. The way things are happening all over is creating the perfect scenario for her to walk in to wither Dothraki hoard, as the outline says.

http://www.businessinsider.com/game-of-thrones-was-supposed-to-be-a-trilogy-2015-2

Exactly.  She is affecting the plot, just from across the ocean.  And once she does get to Westeros heads are gonna roll.

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7 hours ago, Traverys said:

I'm not sure the outline is helping your case, to be honest. She's described as one of the primary threads that make it into each book of the proposed trilogy, but there's nothing in it that establishes her as a hero.

 

She doesn't have to be the hero to be a part of the plot, so the outline does help.  I would argue, and correct me if I'm wrong, but in the context "primary thread" is almost synonymous with "plot."  For example, in Westeros the battle for the throne, as we have established as part of the plot, is between a few primary threads.  Stannis, Cersei, Jon, Robb for a while.  They were all primary threads and all contributed to the plot.  Dany is the same, the fact that you describe her as a primary thread makes her the plot, or at least a primary part of the plot.

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8 minutes ago, spauldo17 said:

Again you're showing shortsightedness. Just because her plot line hasn't culminated yet, doesn't mean it's not the plot.  That's moronic.  It's like saying that Harry Potter had zero plot for 6.9 books because the whole goal was to defeat Voldemort and he didn't do it until the end. Or that there was no plot in Lord of the Rings until the end because the goal was to destroy the ring and Frodo kept getting side tracked and only destroyed it at the end.  You do realize how anti climactic a book would be with out the plot build up?  That's the point of a book, to take you through a journey and arrive at the climactic moment.

I think people understand this.

The thread seems to be -- at least from my perspective -- a light-hearted look at what characters come across as the most flat, given the information we have now. I mean, Hotah could turn out to be the Prince That was Promised (that's a joke, please no one take me literally) and his boring-butt chapters will make total sense once all 7 books are published, but right now he seems a bit superfluous. 

So yes. I repeat. Light-hearted. No need to get all up in arms about how nobody understands this or that. 

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1 minute ago, weirwoodface said:

I think people understand this.

The thread seems to be -- at least from my perspective -- a light-hearted look at what characters come across as the most flat, given the information we have now. I mean, Hotah could turn out to be the Price That was Promised (that's a joke, please no one take me literally) and his boring-butt chapters will make total sense once all 7 books are published, but right now he seems a bit superfluous. 

So yes. I repeat. Light-hearted. No need to get all up in arms about how nobody understands this or that. 

I would agree with you, except for the fact that many in this post have said she doesn't play a role in the plot or in the battle for the throne.  To me, someone who contributes so heavily to a plot line is difficult to see as boring or dull.  Has she had some stagnation?  Sure, but it is all forming her into whatever end result she will be when she finally does cross the sea.

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3 minutes ago, spauldo17 said:

I would agree with you, except for the fact that many in this post have said she doesn't play a role in the plot or in the battle for the throne.  To me, someone who contributes so heavily to a plot line is difficult to see as boring or dull.  Has she had some stagnation?  Sure, but it is all forming her into whatever end result she will be when she finally does cross the sea.

There are actually some points during the Slaver's Bay saga where her character is doing nothing but sending out underlings. Actually, that's most of Meereen. This is what I understood those people to mean although they said it a little more forcefully than I would. It's as if any character could have done what she was doing and so she was quite underused there.

It's OK to be critical of some things -- aSoIaF is a gigantic saga and there are going to be highs and lows, inevitably. I've read all of Tolkien's works and I know them all like the back of my hand for forty years now. I guess I count him as my god of fantasy writers. But The Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion both have their flaws, actually some big ones. Doesn't make me love those books less.

 

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1 minute ago, weirwoodface said:

There are actually some points during the Slaver's Bay saga where her character is doing nothing but sending out underlings. Actually, that's most of Meereen. This is what I understood those people to mean although they said it a little more forcefully than I would. It's as if any character could have done what she was doing and so she was quite underused there.

It's OK to be critical of some things -- aSoIaF is a gigantic saga and there are going to be highs and lows, inevitably. I've read all of Tolkien's works and I know them all like the back of my hand for forty years now. I guess I count him as my god of fantasy writers. But The Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion both have their flaws, actually some big ones. Doesn't make me love those books less.

 

The Silmarillion particularly was a beast to get through, and I love the lore behind things.  I think your confusion is that some are saying she's dull, with which I disagree but "dull" is subjective so to each their own.   What I take exception with more, is that there are also those who actually are saying she isn't part of the plot, or not contributing to the plot. That, I disagree with vehemently.

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3 minutes ago, spauldo17 said:

The Silmarillion particularly was a beast to get through, and I love the lore behind things.  I think your confusion is that some are saying she's dull, with which I disagree but "dull" is subjective so to each their own.   What I take exception with more, is that there are also those who actually are saying she isn't part of the plot, or not contributing to the plot. That, I disagree with vehemently.

Even with that, though, it's their opinion. I see that you're saying that what they're claiming is not up for debate -- that they're wrong; she IS contributing to the plot and that's it. That was one of the reasons given for her dullness so I mean what more can you say other than you disagree and why?

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4 minutes ago, weirwoodface said:

Even with that, though, it's their opinion. I see that you're saying that what they're claiming is not up for debate -- that they're wrong; she IS contributing to the plot and that's it. That was one of the reasons given for her dullness so I mean what more can you say other than you disagree and why?

Your diplomatic approach to a forum is frustratingly level headed. But this is a forum dammit and It's made for arguing!

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Wow!

So many posts which show a lack of grasp upon how stories are structured, character development, the actual characters in the books as they currently and historically have been. It had been a while since I'd seen a thread with so much clear lack of understanding of the story. 

Anyone who thinks Dany or Jon are unimportant I'm gonna suggest doing some further reading of the genre and studying traditional tale-telling, mythology etc; just read more damn it! 

Sansa is a rich and full character who has a solid and unique characterisation and plot. Brienne is also a great character whose POV chapters whilst at first glance may seem uneventful but which in fact contain huge amounts of information about Westeros, the various factions within the lordly society, the situation of the smallfolk and what has been happening during the Wot5K to the population at large, there are also information drops about the history of magic in world as well as her tying Jaime back into the plot in an active manner through her relationship with him and the cliff hanger in AFFC where he goes with her.  

Bran, OMG. How can anyone find Bran's story boring? He's headed into the heart of darkness. With an eerie magical frightening fate awaiting him.

I'll give people fascilitators such as Qynten (who I actually quite like) fAegon, Aeron, Areoh, and even even Victarion. But even these people have real roles to play which contribute to the plot or which in Areoh's case we suspect will provide a pivitol moment for other characters.

I seriously wonder about a person's motivation for joining a dedicated forum when they miss so much about the story and characters?    

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On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 7:20 AM, David Selig said:

You are my hero.

I second this hero-worship of the Bowen.

On ‎5‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 11:36 PM, Bowen Marsh said:

Jon Snow is the dullest and most uninteresting character to me.  What I did to him was a mercy killing.

Hey Bo, don't forget his wolf.  Take a lesson from the RW.  No loose ends. 

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2 hours ago, spauldo17 said:

Again you're showing shortsightedness. Just because her plot line hasn't culminated yet, doesn't mean it's not the plot.  That's moronic.  It's like saying that Harry Potter had zero plot for 6.9 books because the whole goal was to defeat Voldemort and he didn't do it until the end. Or that there was no plot in Lord of the Rings until the end because the goal was to destroy the ring and Frodo kept getting side tracked and only destroyed it at the end.  You do realize how anti climactic a book would be with out the plot build up?  That's the point of a book, to take you through a journey and arrive at the climactic moment.

Let us address Dany's plot  in aSoIaF.  George took her chapters alone and published them.  Guess what, he won a Hugo Award for Dany's chapter.  She has the strongest chapters in the book and they can stand on their own.  It is a testament to the strength and depth of her plot that she can have a theatre all to herself in Essos.  It is a one-woman show until ASOS and ADWD and yet they were good enough to earn George another award.

Do Dany's story affect the plot in the west?  You bet they do.  Here are some examples of how her story fits into the rest of the novels.

  1. Robert's plans to assassinate her caused a rift between him and Ned.
  2. Barristan escapes to Essos to find and serve her.
  3. The birth of her dragons is the current buzz in Oldtowne.
  4. Sam, Aemon, Gilly, and Daeron take a detour and an unpaid Leave of Absence from their duties to find her.
  5. Doran's plot is dependent on what Dany chooses to do.
  6. The whole Ironborn story arc involves Dany..  They want to woo her and control her powers.
  7. Marwyn leaves the citadel to find the dragon queen.
  8. Quentyn, Gerris, and Archibald left Dorne for Meereen.

The plot of the story revolves around three centers:  Dany, Jon, and Tyrion.  It doesn't matter where they are.  The other characters follow them and the plot will likely converge in the last book.  Bran is an important person  too and the story in the north might start revolving around him now that Jon is 10-7.

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Thanks to The Weirwoods Eyes for putting things into perspective. I admit, I'm having a hard time distinguishing in my own mind characters who seem "boring" versus ones I dislike. It's not the same! But try to tell me that!

Given this, I'm bored by Areo Speedwagon -er, Hotah. A simple man with a simple job, maybe a simpleton? And Theon's uncle Aeron, a self-righteous self-deluded seriously out of touch guy. But they - and ALL the POV characters - have provided critical plot and background information. I've been re-listening to the audiobooks (that way, I can do yardwork, etc while "reading"), and was re-amazed at how many connections and details old drunken Merrett Frey provided in his remeniscing on how hard his life had been. Even, possibly, a clue to why Gregor Clegane has become a milk-of-poppy addict.

And don't get me started on Brienne's Journeys Through the Riverland and the vast quantities of back history they've revealed! Which enlightens the previous books, at the very least. Same can be said about other chapters, other POVs where the scenic observations and historical ruminations (and food descriptions!) seem to go on and on. Maybe you're an "action" type and deplore anything where swords aren't slashing, horses charging, whatever. It's too bad, since that isn't all there is to appreciate. My "humble" (yeah, sure) opinion.

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11 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Do Dany's story affect the plot in the west?  You bet they do.  Here are some examples of how her story fits into the rest of the novels.

Good catch! Here's another:

9. Cersei, in small council, sneers at the relevancy of all this dragon-talk going on in distant Essos and moves on to "important" things. (Like her next bath. Queenin' is hard work!!)

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