Is Tyrion the future anti-villain???

[crowcrow]

Hey guys, I've been reading loads of Tyrion-the-anti-villain theories on tumblr and i have started to consider it as a possibility...

________________________________________________________________________________

"Well, I made my appearance on Sheep Island a few hours ago, cleverly disguised as Tyrion the Imp for a reading and Q&A session at Bantam’s virtual bookstore. Only this version of Tyrion could fly! Ah, if only the Tyrion in the books could fly, what mischief he will… ah… could… ah, never mind."-G.R.R.M

so this was written way back in 2007 in his life Journal. what kind of mischief will Tyrion cause exactly GRRM??? we already know Tyrion is a cynic, and we know that he is ugly both in and out (let's be real people, he has crossed the red line of what we call sanity) 

_________________________________________________________________________________

"No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. 
Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun’s son and the mummer’s dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal.“

so...

the kraken-Victarion

Crow-Euron

Griffin-Jon Connigton 

Sun's Son-Quentin

The mummer's dragon-Aegon

And the Lion? my bet is on Tyrion

____________________________________________________________________

"Amazon.com: Do you have a favorite character?

Martin: I’ve got to admit I kind of like Tyrion Lannister. He’s the villain of course, but hey, there’s nothing like a good villain."

Notice that the word "the" is bolded.

At this point i don't even know if he's trolling with us...

what do you guys think???

[Sea Dragon]

Wow, this is good and good timing, too. I have been thinking a lot about Tyrion lately and reading different threads on this forum as well, and it seems that the author is taking his outline clues and rearranging them as he writes and has now put Arya and Tyrion together and I think it works. Tyrion is his favorite and Arya is the authors wife favorite, so it makes sense that they would naturally go together. Both of Tyrion and Arya are faceless, Arya is going in to training to be a courtesan and Tyrion is looking where "whores go". Both have gone down a very dark path, but both are redeemable. Also, both were rejected by Sansa so they have that in common too.

I agree that Tyrion is going to be an anti-hero, and Arya will be there with him and this is how they heal together.

[Damon_Tor]

4 hours ago, RevaM said:

"No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. 

 

Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun’s son and the mummer’s dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal.“

so...

the kraken-Victarion

Crow-Euron

Griffin-Jon Connigton 

Sun's Son-Quentin

The mummer's dragon-Aegon

And the Lion? my bet is on Tyrion

This whole thing is, I think, pretty good evidence that Quaithe can't see the future, she just has some variety of far sight. She warned Dany against several people who were, at the time, on their way to her, but not all of them made it, and not because there was any fate-altering magic involved, but just because other stuff happened, other choices were made.

And we don't know Quaithe's motives. She may have been warning Dany about Tyrion and the others just because she wants Dany paranoid and isolated, unable to trust anyone who comes to help her. It may well have nothing to do with whether or not Tyrion will serve as an antagonist for her.

4 hours ago, Sea Dragon said:

I agree that Tyrion is going to be an anti-hero, and Arya will be there with him and this is how they heal together.

An anti-villain and an anti-hero are not the same thing. They're opposites. One is a hero with questionable means and/or motives, the other is a villain with understandable means and/or motives.

And why do things always have to be about shipping. I feel like we need a shipping subforum just to create an outlet for it all.

And speaking of subforums, this thread probably doesn't belong here.

[Sea Dragon]

1 hour ago, Damon_Tor said:

This whole thing is, I think, pretty good evidence that Quaithe can't see the future, she just has some variety of far sight. She warned Dany against several people who were, at the time, on their way to her, but not all of them made it, and not because there was any fate-altering magic involved, but just because other stuff happened, other choices were made.

And we don't know Quaithe's motives. She may have been warning Dany about Tyrion and the others just because she wants Dany paranoid and isolated, unable to trust anyone who comes to help her. It may well have nothing to do with whether or not Tyrion will serve as an antagonist for her.

An anti-villain and an anti-hero are not the same thing. They're opposites. One is a hero with questionable means and/or motives, the other is a villain with understandable means and/or motives.

And why do things always have to be about shipping. I feel like we need a shipping subforum just to create an outlet for it all.

And speaking of subforums, this thread probably doesn't belong here.

Wow, you are right. I messed up. I think Tyrion and Arya will be anti-heroes as they work together.

[Sea Dragon]

1 hour ago, Damon_Tor said:

This whole thing is, I think, pretty good evidence that Quaithe can't see the future, she just has some variety of far sight. She warned Dany against several people who were, at the time, on their way to her, but not all of them made it, and not because there was any fate-altering magic involved, but just because other stuff happened, other choices were made.

And we don't know Quaithe's motives. She may have been warning Dany about Tyrion and the others just because she wants Dany paranoid and isolated, unable to trust anyone who comes to help her. It may well have nothing to do with whether or not Tyrion will serve as an antagonist for her.

An anti-villain and an anti-hero are not the same thing. They're opposites. One is a hero with questionable means and/or motives, the other is a villain with understandable means and/or motives.

And why do things always have to be about shipping. I feel like we need a shipping subforum just to create an outlet for it all.

And speaking of subforums, this thread probably doesn't belong here.

Sorry, I meant to add, I think people like shipping because we want somewhat of a happy ending for the characters in the book. As far as I can tell from the forums, it seems to be common that people want things to end somewhat well.

[Damon_Tor]

5 hours ago, Sea Dragon said:

Sorry, I meant to add, I think people like shipping because we want somewhat of a happy ending for the characters in the book. As far as I can tell from the forums, it seems to be common that people want things to end somewhat well.

George doesn't write happy endings. Hell, he doesn't even write endings half the time.

[The Dragon has three heads]

On 5/10/2017 at 3:45 PM, Damon_Tor said:

George doesn't write happy endings. Hell, he doesn't even write endings half the time.

Zing haha

Regarding tyrion he's a pretty interesting character from a genetic point of view.

Look into the disease of chimerism, pretty cool.  It's ties in with martins (very) rough Mendelian genetics.

[Lord Wraith]

Anti nothing I think he and Dany on well on the way to full blown villains. Mayhaps not by choice...

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThenLetMeBeEvil

 

[Damon_Tor]

17 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Anti nothing I think he and Dany on well on the way to full blown villains. Mayhaps not by choice...

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThenLetMeBeEvil

 

I think they'll go down a dark path for sure, and yeah, they'll doom the world in the process. I think by the end of the last novel they'll understand how bad they messed up, for whatever that will be worth once the sun rises for the last time, sets, then isn't seen again. As for actually turning evil, I think Bran is the best candidate. He's become a part of a Very Bad Thing: we know exactly the sort of thing he's become a part of because we've read other GRRM stories and we know the sorts of Things in them. If we're right that "Jaquen Hagar's" mission was to kill Bloodraven, then it stands to reason that Arya's mission will be to kill Bran, but then she may well be a part of a Very Bad Thing at that point, so it may be a sort of a "whoever wins, we lose" kind of a deal.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

it's quite possible

[Lord Wraith]

On 5/12/2017 at 5:59 PM, Damon_Tor said:

I think they'll go down a dark path for sure, and yeah, they'll doom the world in the process. I think by the end of the last novel they'll understand how bad they messed up, for whatever that will be worth once the sun rises for the last time, sets, then isn't seen again. As for actually turning evil, I think Bran is the best candidate. He's become a part of a Very Bad Thing: we know exactly the sort of thing he's become a part of because we've read other GRRM stories and we know the sorts of Things in them. If we're right that "Jaquen Hagar's" mission was to kill Bloodraven, then it stands to reason that Arya's mission will be to kill Bran, but then she may well be a part of a Very Bad Thing at that point, so it may be a sort of a "whoever wins, we lose" kind of a deal.

Bran is a 50/50 for me. I certainly don't trust the Children and I am unsure of Bloodravens motivations. Still Bran has slowly been going down a darker path and it amazes me that so many readers don't see it.

[PrincessSapphire]

On 16/05/2017 at 11:20 PM, Lord Wraith said:

Bran is a 50/50 for me. I certainly don't trust the Children and I am unsure of Bloodravens motivations. Still Bran has slowly been going down a darker path and it amazes me that so many readers don't see it.

I agree with the possibility as Bran going down a darker path. Despite everything he's been through, I he is still young and possibly naïve as well. We already know that Bloodraven probably has ulterior motives behind helping Bran control his power - he's not doing it just as an act of kindness or something. I believe Bloodraven will use Bran and his power for his own means, corrupting Bran, and influencing him to take the a dark path.

[The Bard of Banefort]

I once saw someone theorize that George included Dany's chapters in order to show us what the villain was like before they became the villain. Granted, I do think Dany with help stop the Others, which may override her other actions for many readers, but I can't see her being a full-fledged hero in the books. 

I think it would be pretty neat if Tyrion and Jaime sort of "switched places" from where they were at the beginning of the series, with Jaime now being the well-meaning one and Tyrion being the nihilist. I don't think Tyrion will completely lose his humanity, however, and therefore we'll still be able to connect with him.

I don't think Bran will become a villain. He'll have to confront many morally ambiguous dilemmas now that his powers are growing, but in ADWD we saw his propensity for empathy and forgiveness, and that seems to only be growing. In some ways he's becoming a monk-like character: when he hears about how the First Men decimated the Children, he realizes that most men would try to exact revenge, but instead all he feels is a resigned sadness; when a broken Theon is in front of the weirwood tree, Bran attempts to reach out to him, choosing compassion over anger. 

[Angel Eyes]

He's already an anti-villain as he's sympathetic on a personal level, but is working for House Lannister, who is backing Joffrey, a kid tyrant who ordered the beheading of Ned Stark.