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The Unholy Consult SPOILER thread


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4 minutes ago, wayward_ishroi said:

Do we find out where Emilidis is?

 

Nowhere does my obsession with the Cunuroi peak more than everything to do with the Artisan.

 

Does: Emilidis = Inri Sejenus

Or: Emilidis = Fane

 

Spoiler

Nope. He is only mentioned as the manufacturer of a few certain artifacts.

 

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Just now, wayward_ishroi said:

Do we find out where Emilidis is?

Almost certainly not. (there's an offhand remark by a very unreliable source that might indicate where he is, but I think that's likely not correct). 

Just now, wayward_ishroi said:

Nowhere does my obsession with the Cunuroi peak more than everything to do with the Artisan.

Does: Emilidis = Inri Sejenus

Or: Emilidis = Fane

There's a lot about Emilidis in the book, but nothing that indicates either of these things would be true. There's a ton about him in the glossary, and we see a whole lot more of his artifacts - as well as an answer about how chorae affect his artifacts.

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Eh, what I've always thought is that what makes Kellhus more is that he experiences emotion, beginning in earnest on the Circumfix (reread it, he is in agony over the death of Serwe). In the Moe scene, he says losing Esme would make his "heart crash to ruin.". And, there are other incidents where his humanity comes through. From the preview chapter 1, we see he came back to save Esme. And, so on.

What it's all amounted to me is, that he has developed feelings other than what is normal to a Dunyain. It's why, I believe, he wants to save humanity. Do I think this is a love story? Umm, no. Does Bakker want us to see Kellhus as heroic? No, I doubt it. But, his emotions for certain people, no matter how fucked up we view them, is what is driving him.

Im rereading TTT, and Bakker goes through pains to say that Kellhus and Moe are identical. In his meeting with Moe, he describes him as looking "bent or broken". I don't want an answer, but I am guessing that Moe is the man in Kellhus's visions. Just a thought.

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12 hours ago, Kalbear said:
  • Lil' Moenghus is another PoV,
    • who was tortured and raped repeatedly to goad Serwa

Is there a line with explicit rape? I tried to keep an eye for rape, because of the discussion of the "they came for her and she did not resist" line and its context in the last book being ambiguous about whether Serwa was gang-raped or not.  The brief mention of "physical indignities" could be rape (and probably is).

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Quote

 

I'm worried that Bakker wants us to buy Kellhus' love as authentic. Even worse, I hope he doesn't want us to see him as a heroic figure who does awful things due to a deep compassion for humanity and his wife.

 

I don't think so.

Somewhere in the first three AE books Kellhus says that the Dunyain are evil, and he does not necessarily exclude himself from that.

 

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12 hours ago, Damned with the Wind said:

Is there a line with explicit rape? I tried to keep an eye for rape, because of the discussion of the "they came for her and she did not resist" line and its context in the last book being ambiguous about whether Serwa was gang-raped or not.  The brief mention of "physical indignities" could be rape (and probably is).

Well, Moe specifically says he was raped:

Quote

He had been sacrificed.
Mocked. Tortured. Possessed. Raped.

The implication I took from that passage was that both Serwa and Moenghus were mocked, tortured, possessed and raped - but it didn't affect Serwa, and did affect Moe. That's one of the reasons he so resents her - not just that she could have stopped them and chose not to, but that she comes out of it whole and fine, whereas he is broken.
That said, there's a passage that implies that it was only him that was abused:

Quote

He was to be her goad, as she was to be his. The ghouls would draw the knife that is sheathed in all love, and they would cut what they could. Harapior and his understudies smashed him against her, made a bludgeon of his suffering, and she remained... imperturbable.

I could see it either way, honestly. 

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13 minutes ago, Hello World said:

So I noticed that Meppa isn't mentioned in the WHCB section of TUC.

Can someone tell me what happened to him in the last book because I actually can't remember... Kellhus knocked him out, right? Then what?

That's it. Meppa was left unconscious (and even that was debated). That was the last we saw of him. 

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9 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

That's it. Meppa was left unconscious (and even that was debated). That was the last we saw of him. 

I figured as much after reading the TUC preview. Unless a Water-bearer is able to breath under water...

 

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Spoiler

I feel like Bakker added him just to give some legitimacy to the Fanim as a threat to the new empire, which seems pointless assuming that it ended with the death of Fanayal. Also, unless Meppa dies in this book I can see him as one of the people who will fight the No-God in the next series, especially if the Consult destroys the schoolmen that Kellhus brought.

 

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So what's the deal with Kellhus' little speech about ignorance preventing sin?  Is he lying?  Because Mimara's Eye showed the Dunyain as damned despite any intent or will to cause suffering (or something along those lines), which she contrasted with the Inchoroi.  Or is there a distinction between the ignorance Kellhus is talking about and the Dunyain's lack of malicious intent?

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1 minute ago, Madness said:

Wouldn't you all rather read the book than read Kalbear's (probably biased) interpretation of the text?

I'm sure they would; are you offering your ARC?

14 minutes ago, Damned with the Wind said:

So what's the deal with Kellhus' little speech about ignorance preventing sin?  Is he lying?  Because Mimara's Eye showed the Dunyain as damned despite any intent or will to cause suffering (or something along those lines), which she contrasted with the Inchoroi.  Or is there a distinction between the ignorance Kellhus is talking about and the Dunyain's lack of malicious intent?

Right - we have seen all sorts of people who are damned even though they thought they were doing the right thing, or were told as such. My suspicion here is that this is simply a type of control - and possibly Kellhus allowing some semblance of rationalization for his inhuman acts. 

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