Nymeria Reborn

[Annalee]

I think there are two good candidates for Nymeria Reborn:  Arya and Daenerys

The Case for Arya Stark

The Starks lost the war and their home.  Nymeria the wolf is lost and she leads a pack of wolves in the riverlands.  Jon had a vision of a dead Arya clutching her toothpick blade.  I am predicting that Arya will die and warg into her wolf with her last heart beat.  She will live on as Nymeria the direwolf to lead her pack to safety while the Freys and their hunters are hot on their trail.  Where do they go?  I can guess at two locations that can provide safety from the Freys.

1. North.  The pack can go north.  This is foretold by Jojen Reed when he said the wolves will come again.  Arya will meet up with Jon.  Jon will be in the direwolf form and they can lead the pack beyond the wall.  This fulfills the original outline from the author.  Jon and Arya are destined to be together. 
2. East.  This is the opposite of the Rhoynish migration and it is a way to avoid the hunters.  The Step Stones will emerge as the ocean levels recede and the ice accumulates on the land.

The Case for Daenerys

Daenerys' adventures in Slaver's Bay is not paralleled in history.  She is a Moses figure who will lead the slaves and the children of the slaves out of Meereen.  Meereen and its pyramids is the analogue of Egypt.  Daenerys will break the harpy's resolve and the slaves will be free.  She will lead them west to build a new life.  They will meet resistance along the way but her people are the Chosen and they will find a new home mirroring what Nymeria did with her ten thousand ships.

I would not be very surprised if Dany is actually Dornish by blood.  There is room in the written text for Dany to be the daughter of Aerys or Rhaegar with a Dornish woman or Rhaella with a Dornish lover.  Was good Queen Rhaella getting it on with Lewyn Martell? 

[Davjos]

Don't know if I'm missing some knowledge but without intending to be mean or condescending, you should try to explain yourself a bit more imo. I don't really understand why you're searching for a 'Nymeria Reborn'. I see no reason for any character to be a Nymeria reborn. So I'd love for you to expand a bit. 

 

Also, regarding the parallels. I believe Arya just 'idolised' strong female, combat orientated leaders. She also speaks about Visenya a lot if I remember correctly. I think her admiration for Nymeria is just that, admiration. Nymeria was a female queen, a skilled commander, but No warrior. So far she has nothing in common with Arya. 

Regarding Dany. While she'll sail with many ships to Westeros from the east and is a queen, that's where the comparrison ends. Dany is no skilled commander. She has fought in 1 battle, right? She is the dragon, conquering other people. Nymeria was fleeing with her people from the Valeryan Conquerers. Dany is not fleeing from anything I expect, since she'll just smash all Essosi opposition. 

 

So the parallels are at most vague in my opinion. I however love these comparisons with 'historic characters' 

[sweetsunray]

1 hour ago, Ethelarion said:

I don't really understand why you're searching for a 'Nymeria Reborn'. I see no reason for any character to be a Nymeria reborn. So I'd love for you to expand a bit. 

I'm not the OP, but I do think that some events and past figures are echoed in the current timeline of Planetos. George works with parallels, mirrors almost constantly, but also including variations. Basically it's cyclic writing, but every cycle is not an exact copy of the preceding ones, rather iterations. 

To the OP, the Nymeria concept can therefore be reflected in several female characters taking up a portion or aspect of the Nymeria backstory.

Also: certainly at the time Jon "knows nothing". It's the reason why I dismiss his needle prophecy as a red herring. Arya's already "dead" so to speak, since her disappearance from King's Landing.

And have you considered the possibility that someone might need to lead survivors of Westeros into the sunset sea, west, to find a new land for them to settle?

[Shi Qiang]

1 hour ago, Ethelarion said:

Regarding Dany. While she'll sail with many ships to Westeros from the east and is a queen, that's where the comparrison ends. Dany is no skilled commander. She has fought in 1 battle, right? She is the dragon, conquering other people. Nymeria was fleeing with her people from the Valeryan Conquerers. Dany is not fleeing from anything I expect, since she'll just smash all Essosi opposition. 

Not true at all.  Dany plays the game of thrones as well as anyone.  She led her team to victory against Astapor and Yunkai.  She led her worn down Dothraki across the red waste to the safety of Vaes Toloro.  She outwitted the warlocks of Quarth and escaped the trap of the undying ones.  She is a much better leader than Jon and Robb..  I don't believe given the same resources any of those boys could have defeated the Yunkai sellswords with minimal loss of life.  Thousands of Robb's men got killed just to capture Jaime!  That's efficiency for you.

2 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

And have you considered the possibility that someone might need to lead survivors of Westeros into the sunset sea, west, to find a new land for them to settle?

You were not asking me but I want to put in my thoughts on this question.  I expect the real possibility of someone leading the refugees across the stepstones to Essos.  The west was devoid of humans until the First Men invaded.  Perhaps the long night is intended to put humans back where they belong. 

Arya is a reckless person and she is a spitting image of Lyanna right down to her loooong face.  She will not live long. 

 

[a black swan]

38 minutes ago, Ethelarion said:

Don't know if I'm missing some knowledge but without intending to be mean or condescending, you should try to explain yourself a bit more imo. I don't really understand why you're searching for a 'Nymeria Reborn'. I see no reason for any character to be a Nymeria reborn. So I'd love for you to expand a bit. 

 

Also, regarding the parallels. I believe Arya just 'idolised' strong female, combat orientated leaders. She also speaks about Visenya a lot if I remember correctly. I think her admiration for Nymeria is just that, admiration. Nymeria was a female queen, a skilled commander, but No warrior. So far she has nothing in common with Arya. 

Regarding Dany. While she'll sail with many ships to Westeros from the east and is a queen, that's where the comparrison ends. Dany is no skilled commander. She has fought in 1 battle, right? She is the dragon, conquering other people. Nymeria was fleeing with her people from the Valeryan Conquerers. Dany is not fleeing from anything I expect, since she'll just smash all Essosi opposition. 

 

So the parallels are at most vague in my opinion. I however love these comparisons with 'historic characters' 

Admiration. 

If you consider how Arya demonstrates that - naming her direwolf after a ruling Queen is more significant than you're allowing. 

Arya had named her after the warrior queen of the Rhoyne, who had led her people across the narrow sea. That had been a great scandal too. - Arya, AGoT

The connection between direwolf and Stark is not to be glossed over.

The strong link between the two - girl & wolf - has Nymeria bringing together wolves into a super pack and leading them like no direwolf has done South of the Wall for hundreds of years - you think that has zero reflection or foreshadowing on Arya and her abilities/desires as demonstrated by her direwolf?  

When they share the same skin, Arya becomes that leader/Queen, the head of a pack of wolves that follows her. Arya sees Northmen and thinks they are wolves, like her.

Arya is not being trained as warrior, especially since arriving to Braavos. 

Some elements of Nymeria's nature/story may influence Arya in many ways. If it was simple adoration, George wouldn't need to keep bringing Nymeria up in other forms.

Arya's cover story as Cat of the Canals had her journey to Essos on ship called Nymeria. 

She literally takes the name Nymeria when she meets Roose Bolton. 

 

[a black swan]

8 minutes ago, Allardyce said:

Arya is a reckless person and she is a spitting image of Lyanna right down to her loooong face.  She will not live long. 

 

Reckless? I mean, if you only read Book 1, sure? 

A looong face. Death omen!

[sweetsunray]

11 minutes ago, Allardyce said:

She will not live long.

And yet she manages to survive the worst shit, you wouldn't expect a child of noble upbringing to have survived. For "not living long" she beats life expectancy for 5 books already. Everybody in the books believes she's actually dead, and yet she's alive.

I also disagree with being "reckless". That is, she used to be an impulsive child at the age of 9 (and empathic, emotional 9 year olds I think can be excused for having a reckless streak), but she's been mentored, taught and trained to watch, listen, study and form a plan, and to execute it. First by Syrio, driving the first lessons home that help her in the RL. And now she's being trained by the HoBaW. And she's not learning all of that to "not live long", but the exact opposite. 

[Shi Qiang]

3 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

Reckless? I mean, if you only read Book 1, sure? 

A looong face. Death omen! 

Huh, that girl's chin brushes the floor every time she walks.  Can you just hear Cat saying, "Arrryaaaa, wipe your chin before supper child.  You've got grass and bits of soil in the peach fuzz beneath your chin.  How many times do I tell you, tuck your chin when you walk or I'll make you wear a bib!"

 

 

[Renly's Banana]

I'm not sure we're ever gonna really see a parallel to Nymeria's story -- or if we're even meant to get one -- but I can definitely see some similarities between her and Dany. If/when she finally sails for Westeros, she'll be bringing dozens, if not hundreds of ships with her. And if she finds an alliance in Dorne, she'll be "marrying" the Martells. 

[winter daughter]

5 hours ago, Allardyce said:

Arya is a reckless person and she is a spitting image of Lyanna right down to her loooong face.  She will not live long. 

She was reckless but she is learning to control her temper and impulses. so I think unlike Lyanna and Brandon, she'll live a long life.

 

6 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

And have you considered the possibility that someone might need to lead survivors of Westeros into the sunset sea, west, to find a new land for them to settle?

Why do you think survivors will leave Westeros? After the first Long night people stayed and rebuilt their homeland. I think something similar will happen again.

[Dorian Martell's son]

8 hours ago, Annalee said:

I think there are two good candidates for Nymeria Reborn:  Arya and Daenerys

The Case for Arya Stark

The Starks lost the war and their home.  Nymeria the wolf is lost and she leads a pack of wolves in the riverlands.  Jon had a vision of a dead Arya clutching her toothpick blade.  I am predicting that Arya will die and warg into her wolf with her last heart beat.  She will live on as Nymeria the direwolf to lead her pack to safety while the Freys and their hunters are hot on their trail.  Where do they go?  I can guess at two locations that can provide safety from the Freys.

1. North.  The pack can go north.  This is foretold by Jojen Reed when he said the wolves will come again.  Arya will meet up with Jon.  Jon will be in the direwolf form and they can lead the pack beyond the wall.  This fulfills the original outline from the author.  Jon and Arya are destined to be together. 
2. East.  This is the opposite of the Rhoynish migration and it is a way to avoid the hunters.  The Step Stones will emerge as the ocean levels recede and the ice accumulates on the land.

The Case for Daenerys

Daenerys' adventures in Slaver's Bay is not paralleled in history.  She is a Moses figure who will lead the slaves and the children of the slaves out of Meereen.  Meereen and its pyramids is the analogue of Egypt.  Daenerys will break the harpy's resolve and the slaves will be free.  She will lead them west to build a new life.  They will meet resistance along the way but her people are the Chosen and they will find a new home mirroring what Nymeria did with her ten thousand ships.

I would not be very surprised if Dany is actually Dornish by blood.  There is room in the written text for Dany to be the daughter of Aerys or Rhaegar with a Dornish woman or Rhaella with a Dornish lover.  Was good Queen Rhaella getting it on with Lewyn Martell? 

Historical characters are not reborn in the series. Journeys are similar, but so far there is enough confusion as to prophecy and vision that it is impossible to assign a current in book character with a historical one  

[sweetsunray]

5 hours ago, winter daughter said:

Why do you think survivors will leave Westeros? After the first Long night people stayed and rebuilt their homeland. I think something similar will happen again.

I'm not saying I'm certain of that, just throwing it out as a possibility. Are we so sure the Others will be beaten and humans can take Westeros back? Maybe they have a better chance at surviving by abandoning Westeros altogether than taking a last stand? What is so important about Nymeria - she led her people into an exodus to seek a new home, because their old home was no more.

[winter daughter]

On 5/10/2017 at 4:13 PM, sweetsunray said:

I'm not saying I'm certain of that, just throwing it out as a possibility.

I know it's a possibility. I asked because I've read most of your essays and theories and I think you have an eye for hints and detail. I thought maybe there are some hints for this future in the text that I've not noticed before.

[sweetsunray]

5 hours ago, winter daughter said:

I know it's a possibility. I asked because I've read most of your essays and theories and I think you have an eye for hints and detail. I thought maybe there are some hints for this future in the text that I've not noticed before.

There might have been hints for it, but I haven't actively looked for it. It's a hunch feeling that such might happen, that likely are based on some patterns I might be picking up on. I have to rereas the world book, because the idea first was imagined after reading about Nymeria, and then Nymeria leading a giant wolf pack in the Riverlands. Yes, Nymeria is leading the wolves in Westeros and for war, but away from home. Then we have the swan (a trekking bird) references for her, which includes 'swan song' but that also makes me think of 'sailing west' (the allegorical sailing journey for being taken to the otherlands), and then the Braavos fleet with its purple sails. All those things combined evoked an image of Arya on a purple sailed ship sailing West, not just from Braavos, but a huge fleet to leave Westeros behind and east of her.

So, I'm not considering it just out of the blue, but I haven't actively searched for evidence for it, and I might jumping way ahead in the image.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Neither Dany nor Arya.

Nymeria 2.0 is Val.

 

[Lord Wraith]

I wasn't aware there was a Nymeria reborn prophecy... or is OP just discussing parallels?

[Kaibaman]

Lets remember that though she is remembered as a "warrior queen", Nymeria herself didn't possess any martial talents. Her ability to command armies came more from being a brilliant military leader rather than a swashbuckling general. Plus although Arya is quite the badass, she is not a leader on the same level as her idol was. Though she has some leadership talents when leading Gendry and the small band of Night's Watch candidates in the Riverlands, she has yet to apply these same leadership abilities on a grander scale.

I suppose Dany is more similar to Nymeria than Arya in being a strong female monarch. She has some military gifts and though her victories in Slaver's Bay were impressive, she is still on training wheels. Of course with her dragons she may not need to be as talented of a general as Nymeria was. 

[Victor Newman]

Both these girls possess similarities with the Nymeria of old.  Let's face facts, the west is entering a long Ice Age so that means large scale migration to the east.  This leader will lead the people to the east.  I think this person will be male this time around.  Ice and Fire flip and decide who will be the destroyer.  Fire won the toss and destroyed Valyria.  Ice won before that and killed off the majority of people 10K years ago.  Ice won the toss this time and Ice gets to destroy man.  I believe the genders of important personalities in the conflict also flip.  Dany is the azor ahai and Aegon today.  The queen who will lead is currently not but instead is a male.  Aegon makes the most sense.  He will lead the Dornish across the step stones to the east.  Nymeria is Aegon who will lead the people east to flee from the Starks and the white walkers.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 hour ago, Take Me 2 Your Leader said:

from the Starks and the white walkers.

The Starks and the Others are the same now?

[Lord Wraith]

17 hours ago, The Doctor's Consort said:

The Starks and the Others are the same now?

Jon Stark as Night's King 2.0 confirmed and Val as Night's Queen... J/K.

Granted I think he and Val will help unite the North and the Wildlings at somepoint.