Larry of the Lawn Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Callan S. said: It's always interesting the theme of how, in the magic, Intellect is judged, but Passion is witless, so Passion avoids judgement through sheer witlessness. A kind of anti intellectualism, which is only possible due to intellectualism (Intellectualism can detect aberrations in itself, Passion cannot) It doesn't though, the Cish seem to be damned despite not bearing the Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 4 hours ago, larrytheimp said: It doesn't though, the Cish seem to be damned despite not bearing the Mark. How so? Keep in mind that whistling on a Tuesday gets you damned in Earwa, so an account of a damned Cish could be for any number of reasons (like believing wrong). Pretty sure the magic system is explained that intellect can tell a discrepancy but passion cannot - so Cish aren't marked. However, that doesn't stop them getting on Satan's naughty list in other ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Mimara has never looked at a Cish. She did see a Fanim guy in the Skin Eaters as damned, though whether that was for his beliefs or his crimes is unknown. Fanic theology itself doesn't concern itself with the Outside's Heavens and Hells - it's all Hell to them. Like the Non-men their goal to escape the Outside and reach oblivion, except whereas the Nonman see oblivion as oblivion, the Fanim see escaping the Outside as a way to reach the Solitary God and the real afterlife i.e. the Fanim's conception of Heaven is more inline with IRL religions. The Outside is just a spooky dimension to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Uh oh. First the date went from July 4th to the 11th. I am now seeing July 25th on the Amazon site as well. They are sure being consistent at Overlook, having pulled this exact same trick with TTT, TJE and WLW as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damelon Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Calibandar said: Uh oh. First the date went from July 4th to the 11th. I am now seeing July 25th on the Amazon site as well. They are sure being consistent at Overlook, having pulled this exact same trick with TTT, TJE and WLW as well. Can you provide a link? I still see only July 11 for the US release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valandil Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 23 hours ago, WalterX said: On The Second Apocalypse forum Bakker answers a question about Titurga like this: "Little is known of Titirga's extraordinary gifts. Though various accounts reference instances that seem to support the notion that he somehow anticipated the Psukhe, idiosyncrasies abound in the descriptions of sorcery in the time of Ancient Umerau." Given the idea that he was blind as a child, I'd say he was partly to a Cesaurim, aping God's tone and thus avoiding the bruise of damnation. 20 hours ago, Werthead said: Yeah, Titirga appears to have found a way of using the Gnosis and Psukhe together, which explains how he was so powerful when he (apparently) couldn't wield the Metagnosis. Thanks gents. So he may have been using the Psukhe pre cishaurim. So does that hint that fanimry is bollocks, given that Titirga didn't have the solitary god reveal it to him a la Fane (as far as we know it I suppose)? I know we haven't seen Kelhus use the Psukhe either in POV. I wonder has he investigated it at all. I suppose he'd have had to, and disregarded it or the pursuit of it for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Damelon said: Can you provide a link? I still see only July 11 for the US release. Scroll down to the product details on amazon.com " Publisher: The Overlook Press (July 25, 2017)" Ominous, especially given their history of doing this every single time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damelon Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 7 minutes ago, Calibandar said: Scroll down to the product details on amazon.com " Publisher: The Overlook Press (July 25, 2017)" Ominous, especially given their history of doing this every single time. That would be a bummer for all the US and HC loving Bakkerites. Sharp eyes, Calibandar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 It would have been cool if koringhus used psuhke right before he died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllusiveMan Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 3 hours ago, Calibandar said: Uh oh. First the date went from July 4th to the 11th. I am now seeing July 25th on the Amazon site as well. They are sure being consistent at Overlook, having pulled this exact same trick with TTT, TJE and WLW as well. Is this just for the hardcover? I preorder a copy for my Kindle and it still says it'll be delivered on July 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 *goes to check amazon* Amazon.com still says July 11 for me. Well, never mind, Shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Still saying 6 July for the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redeagl Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 26 minutes ago, Werthead said: Still saying 6 July for the UK. Do we begin the disscusion as soon as the UK book is released or wait for the US one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghjhero Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 28 minutes ago, redeagl said: Do we begin the disscusion as soon as the UK book is released or wait for the US one? Shouldn't that go in the spoiler thread regardless? I feel there should be a month or so for those of us who aren't able to get the book right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 14 hours ago, Callan S. said: How so? Keep in mind that whistling on a Tuesday gets you damned in Earwa, so an account of a damned Cish could be for any number of reasons (like believing wrong). Pretty sure the magic system is explained that intellect can tell a discrepancy but passion cannot - so Cish aren't marked. However, that doesn't stop them getting on Satan's naughty list in other ways. So why do chorae kill them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Yeah, we'll keep all of the TUC discussion in the spoiler thread until the book comes out in the US (and maybe a bit after). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghjhero Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Thanks Wert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 28 minutes ago, larrytheimp said: So why do chorae kill them? If I were to guess, it goes like this: chorae salt sorcerers chorae cause ciahaurim to burn up in a flash of blinding light Salt is traditionally a sign of purification sorcery turns on ontology and sorcery therefore leaves a mark because sorcery is impure ontology, In essence impure meanings. chorae purify impure meaning which has the literal effect of taking abstract impure meaning and trying into a concretized pure manifestation of meaning aka "salt" Cishaurim have no ontology aspect to their magic rather are gods pure passion rechanneled to the wrong place,. So it does not leave a mark of manifesting impurity within the world. But it is still an impurity in the world purifies in this instance by a burning flash restoring gods passion to its proper channel, so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 40 minutes ago, larrytheimp said: So why do chorae kill them? Adding to what @lokisnow said, chorae kill Cish for game balance. Oh, fine. Chorae kill Cish because Chorae disrupt meaning and intent. They do not disrupt damnation - they have nothing to do with damnation, so whether or not something has the bruise of the Mark is not important for chorae (otherwise things like Kosoter couldn't wear the chorae). Rather, chorae stop meaning from being changed due to intent. For sorcerers, they change the objective world to their meaning via expressing their intent via words. The more precisely they can express their intent, the more powerful they can be, and this is why anagnostic magic isn't as powerful as gnostic and that isn't as powerful as metagnostic - because each level is more precise in its intent. Chorae go in and basically say 'yeah, but the world isn't like that' and stop that intent. Cishaurim don't use intent in that way, they use it as a recollection of the voice of the God - but they are still expressing their meaning, and the result is that chorae can also disrupt this too in a similar way. Chorae don't work in disrupting things like Topos or the wight of Cil-Aujas because those bring their own frame of objectivity with them; for them, what they're doing is the 'world is like that' because their belief made it so that the world (at least in that place) IS like that. There is nothing for a chorae to nullify, as the world is properly set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 I wonder why the delay. Probably printing shenanigans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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