.H.

Bakker XLIX - From Bashrags to Riches (No TUC Spoilers!)

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16 minutes ago, End of Disc One said:

Would he hire an editor if he self published?  

Would it matter?

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If he released it chapter-by-chapter (with each one being Atrocity Tale length), probably not. The ultimate end product might not be good, but the basic editing of each piece might be okay. 

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5 hours ago, Summer Bass said:

I don't know about Kickstarter, but I could see Bakker doing a Patreon. He has a very small but devoted fanbase, and all he really needs is for, say, 1000 of them to kick in a couple bucks a month. Or an even smaller number to pay $10-20/month.

I could see that working if one of the major fans ran it and passed the funds through, so they'd be rather like Scott's agent. Scott, indirectly, does too much parodying and satire of things like patreon and other war of all against all fiscal systems it's not like he could run one himself. He'll take scraps from a masters table while carving that master up with a literary knife - but once you've done that, you can't become the master without throwing yourself on the same blade.

But it'd also have to take into account he wants to reach a wide audience, not an echo chamber. So he'd have to be able to take the money but still potentially devote significant time to general publishing since it reaches a general audience.

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18 hours ago, YoungBoulheim said:

 

Quote from H:

Quote

 

I'll take a stab at it.

Essentially what she is saying is that before Inri dies there, she believes she would give up anything, her own life, her own power, her own possessions to best him.  He, being Dûnyain, would not be so willing to give up his own life, nor his holding of power and so she felt this was an advantage she could leverage against him.  It wouldn't be necessary to kill him, rather, demonstrate he could not win and so he would look to preserve his own life and would then capitulate.

However, there, over her son's dead body, she realized that while she would give her own life and 'her' Empire, she was notwilling to sacrifice her children and she imagines that this was Maith's plan, to demonstrate to her this area of weakness.  "I was so willing" is her telling him that she was willing to sacrifice herself and her power, the point of that parable.

 

Ouch! So she rationalises as part of a learned helplessness. Everything the Dunyain do is some cunning manipulation, rather than dumb chamce.

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32 minutes ago, Callan S. said:

I could see that working if one of the major fans ran it and passed the funds through, so they'd be rather like Scott's agent. Scott, indirectly, does too much parodying and satire of things like patreon and other war of all against all fiscal systems it's not like he could run one himself. He'll take scraps from a masters table while carving that master up with a literary knife - but once you've done that, you can't become the master without throwing yourself on the same blade.

But it'd also have to take into account he wants to reach a wide audience, not an echo chamber. So he'd have to be able to take the money but still potentially devote significant time to general publishing since it reaches a general audience.

He wants to reach a wide audience? o.O

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1 hour ago, Darth Richard II said:

He wants to reach a wide audience? o.O

Well, he could write really clever academic papers that'd appeal to some academic in groups. Even just the genre of grim dark or the wider genre of fantasy reach more people than that - people who actually matter (ie, the ones not living in tenured ivory towers). Or so I estimate things. You're not tenured, r u?

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I was thinking more about how his interactions online, both recently and in the past, have driven a lot of people away.

 

and I live under a bridge 

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Well, so does he.

It's reaching a wider audience not just to have more facebook friends. It seems to be to prod at a bunch of issues he has with society, of which he seems to have a metric f' ton. For someone who's decided to fight a war on multiple fronts at once, he's doing pretty well. If he actually sold out, he'd do incredibly well. Though he would lose his soul, he'd gain the world.

 

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6 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

I was thinking more about how his interactions online, both recently and in the past, have driven a lot of people away.

 

and I live under a bridge 

Come on, you can be more negative dude. It feels like your posts are only 90% full of venom and constant negativity towards Bakker. Surely you can go the extra mile and add a bit more disgust and condemnation? 

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I haven't read the recent AMA yet, but I've only seen Bakker act cordial towards his readers.  Maybe he has a high opinion of his own work, but I mostly do too.  And I think his mind is in a totally different place than everyone else's...reminds me of John Lennon's line, "no one I think is in my tree."

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11 hours ago, Callan S. said:

But it'd also have to take into account he wants to reach a wide audience, not an echo chamber. So he'd have to be able to take the money but still potentially devote significant time to general publishing since it reaches a general audience.

I don't think those things are incompatible. NK Jemisin runs a Patreon to help support her writing, while also publishing it for a broader audience. Bakker could do the same thing (assuming he has a publisher), or self-publish the books however he likes and release parts of them earlier for Patreon subscribers (if he doesn't).

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5 hours ago, Calibandar said:

Come on, you can be more negative dude. It feels like your posts are only 90% full of venom and constant negativity towards Bakker. Surely you can go the extra mile and add a bit more disgust and condemnation? 

Sorry I've been out of sorts. I'll ramp the negativity up a bit after lunch.

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13 hours ago, Callan S. said:

Well, so does he.

It's reaching a wider audience not just to have more facebook friends. It seems to be to prod at a bunch of issues he has with society, of which he seems to have a metric f' ton. For someone who's decided to fight a war on multiple fronts at once, he's doing pretty well. If he actually sold out, he'd do incredibly well. Though he would lose his soul, he'd gain the world.

 

the term "selling out" is just an Orwellian social construction to "keep you in your place" by making you think success is actually failure and failure is actually success.

but Bakker would never realize that, holding tight to the idea that purity in failure is proof of success in *insert bullshit self serving concept here*

 

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19 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

the term "selling out" is just an Orwellian social construction to "keep you in your place" by making you think success is actually failure and failure is actually success.

but Bakker would never realize that, holding tight to the idea that purity in failure is proof of success in *insert bullshit self serving concept here*

 

Yes, but success at what? When I use the phrase 'selling out', I refer to the fact that the various companies who would pay to use your IP would not at all be interested in your IP if folk had not believed in your IP to begin with. Without their belief, the companies don't want to pay you anything for your IP. With their belief, the companies want to pay you to use your IP...and to do so is selling the belief folk had. The creator of Calvin and Hobbes didn't go into t-shirts and paraphernalia for this issue, I think.

And in terms of pushing social issues, I think Bakker is right about complaints and that 'failure' - so often people hold contesting views, they complain because they are not used to being argued with on certain points. The 'failures' indicate hitting actual targets. The few times I've seen people raise an issue like a timeline error, something that wasn't trying to engage a (what Bakker thinks is a) problematic social issue, they've been polite and appreciative rather than it being a failure to engage them through the books. He only seems to 'fail' when running into the social targets he set out to run into. Say I don't like dog fights and write a book engaging that - if my book actually reaches people who run dog fights, they are going to complain. But I don't like dog fights, so is that a failure or is that a success?

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No, if you set out to write a book that you say is full of meaning and then get to the end and tell everyone it was all actually meaningless and you had no idea what you were doing...that's failure.

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

No, if you set out to write a book that you say is full of meaning and then get to the end and tell everyone it was all actually meaningless and you had no idea what you were doing...that's failure.

Spoiler

I looked up the 'narrative instincts' post. Doesn't seem to say it's all meaningless there. Just an absence of hard closure (I don't know if the end of the Soprano's was an issue as well)

 

Edited by Callan S.
spoiler tags

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This discussion is straying a bit close to the spoiler topics... perhaps move it to other thread?

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9 minutes ago, Rhom said:

This discussion is straying a bit close to the spoiler topics... perhaps move it to other thread?

I don't think either of us is ever going to agree on anything, ever, but yeah we should move this to the other.

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Haven't gotten around to reading it yet, but the reviews on Amazon.com are hilariously divisive.

I've honestly rarely seen a novel this divisive in response. Goodreads review lean more to the positive I noticed, but with a few deeply disappointed one in there as well. It seems to be a novel that people either rate 9 or 10 stars out of 10, or 1.

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