Frederic_ed

What future events from the books can we REALLY imply from the show

127 posts in this topic

On 6/22/2017 at 11:11 AM, Frederic_ed said:

C'mon, he will finish at least TWOW :P

He will.  But, how much is that going to move the story forward?  And even if the series could end in 7 books, which seems unlikely, how long or ever will it take for the final book to come out?  How much will reaction to the show's ending influence the author on his own ending, some, none?  Who knows.  It's an unfortunate situation all around.

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On 6/22/2017 at 1:38 AM, GeorgeIAF said:

As time goes by i am more and more convinced that GRRM will never finish Asoiaf.

 

On 6/22/2017 at 11:11 AM, Frederic_ed said:

C'mon, he will finish at least TWOW :P

He can finish TWOW, but he still has ADOS and possibly an eighth volume to contend with.

 

39 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Agreed. I think there will be lots of differences in the books. There's just too much that has been fundamentally changed, these are in many cases such different characters and storylines, that there's no way they could bring them in line with the books in such a short time, and I doubt they'd even care to bother.

I think all we can say with any certainty is that the main characters--POV Starks + POV Lannisters + Dany--will have the same endings as in the books. Everything else is up for grabs.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

He will.  But, how much is that going to move the story forward?  And even if the series could end in 7 books, which seems unlikely, how long or ever will it take for the final book to come out?  How much will reaction to the show's ending influence the author on his own ending, some, none?  Who knows.  It's an unfortunate situation all around.

I think from what they are saying, it's more like they went their separate ways:

"Luckily we've had a lot of talks with George, we know where he's going. We know the end point, and we're hoping that, you know, that end point will be very much in keeping with the spirit of the books."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vcy-EhkHXnE

Benioff: We’ve had a lot of conversations with George, and he makes a lot of stuff up as he’s writing it. Even while we talk to him about the ending, it doesn’t mean that that ending that he has currently conceived is going to be the ending when he eventually writes it.

Weiss: He figures a lot of this stuff as he goes. He always says he’s a gardener, not an architect.

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/game-of-thrones-ending-season-5-producers-interview-1201469516/

Edited by Le Cygne

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George RR Martin WILL NOT FINISH ASOIAF. It took him 5 years to complete A Feast for Crows, 6 years to complete A dance With Dragons. I don't think we will see The Winds of Winter before the end of this year or it would have been announced by now. We can expect it by early 2018 hopefully. It would likely take 8 years to complete a Dream of Spring. It is highly unrealistic to think he will still be in good health but by that point, I probably won't care anyway and I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't. 

But there are a few things we can gleam from the show that will happen in the books as well albeit in different circumstances. 

Stannis' sacrifice of Shireeen, Hodor's origin story, Jon's resurrection, Jon becomes the King of the North, Dany sails for Westeros with Tyrion, Arya returning to Westeros, Hound being alive, Benjen being alive. All that stuff will almost certainly happen in the books. 

Cersei burning down King's Landing, Jon expedition with men beyond the wall, Barristan Selmy's death has a high chance of happening but not guaranteed. 

Jon, Dany boatsex probably won't happen though so don't get your hopes up there. 

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Posted (edited)

This is an interesting thread, with a lot of good thinking by posters on a lot of points, and I believe a lot of the inferences probably are both reasonable and accurate.

Having said that...I think the number of things we can REALLY know for sure is actually quite small.  As I understand it, GRRM has only told the showrunners a very limited number of fairly specific things, a lot of which relates to the endings of major characters.

Beyond that...we already know that the show has made numerous divergences from the books.  In fact, at least one appears to be QUITE major, since, as I recall, GRRM has publicly said the show has killed off at least one character who still has a major role to play in the books (that one statement by GRRM could throw many of the opinions in this thread into total chaos)

But hey, I'm not saying who's right and who's wrong here, cuz I just don't know.  In fact, as I've basically said, LOTS of the stuff in this thread seems extremely reasonable to me.  But...I think what we can really "know" with great confidence is actually a VERY small number of things, including, in my opinion, quite possibly ONLY the things that have been expressly confirmed as canon.

Edited by Cron

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I've heard that George complained about the show cutting the other Tyrell brothers, as it seems like one of them will have an important role in the story going forward.

I think the Tyrell brother George talks about will be the one to command House Tyrell once the other important Tyrells are killed (Margeary, Loras, Mace). It seems the show gave this role to the QOT. If the spoilers are right and Randyll Tarly ends up betraying the Tyrells, the end of the House would be the same in both books and show.

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Posted (edited)

Some good debate in here (with the usual minority who simply cannot objectively accept the show spoiling things or give it the due praise it deserves).  

I feel there is a ton of stuff S6 spoiled from Winds but I'm sure there is some stuff we will get from the book no covered in the show.  Jon will be back and it's now clear he was stabbed so he could exit the Nights Watch and rise up as King in the North, I'm sure this will be via Rob's will in the books though.  The Pink letter is real and Ramsay wrote it after defeating Stannis, this was clearly written and dropped from ADWD and moved to Winds.  Rickon is going to die.  All of this has been predicted but not widely and I would be amazed if it's not canon.

 

In the South, I feel there is more wiggle room, I suspect Arienne is going to betray Doran, this is lightly covered by the show, it's quite  a jump to make but the show does tend to give certain sub plots to other characters (see Yara/Theon taking Victorians role).  Aegon now becomes interesting to me, I'm intrigued by his introduction in the books but he's clearly never going to be a major player, so where does his role now sit? I suspect Cersei manages to defeat him in Winds after dealing with the High Sparrow (again this is book canon I'm certain of it but I suspect the details are different).

 

In the East, it was obvious Dany was getting a Dothraki horde behind her, I feel Barristan will die in the Siege but the show brought it forward to give Tyrion more to do, where as in the books I guess he will only join Dany towards the latter half.

Bran stuff is very likely canon too, not too many guessed he wouldn't live out his remaining years in the tree though, but I'm sceptical as to whether the mark is real, the history with the children creating the white walkers and Hold the Door is 100% canon in my opinion.

 

Finally I feel there is a lot more debate to come with the final seasons/ADOS, as I'm sure D&D had access to a lot of what GRRM had written for Winds and could have given them a good steer but ADOS will still be a vague outline so not much for them to use other than main endings!

Edited by JonSnowed

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On 24/6/2017 at 2:14 PM, Le Cygne said:

I think from what they are saying, it's more like they went their separate ways:

"Luckily we've had a lot of talks with George, we know where he's going. We know the end point, and we're hoping that, you know, that end point will be very much in keeping with the spirit of the books."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vcy-EhkHXnE

Benioff: We’ve had a lot of conversations with George, and he makes a lot of stuff up as he’s writing it. Even while we talk to him about the ending, it doesn’t mean that that ending that he has currently conceived is going to be the ending when he eventually writes it.

Weiss: He figures a lot of this stuff as he goes. He always says he’s a gardener, not an architect.

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/game-of-thrones-ending-season-5-producers-interview-1201469516/

On the other hand we have GRRM saying he hasnt changed the ending at all. So pick your poison

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Posted (edited)

On the other hand, he has said similar things to what they are saying.

Edited by Le Cygne

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On Invalid Date at 0:35 AM, SecretWeapon said:

On the other hand we have GRRM saying he hasnt changed the ending at all. So pick your poison

Historically GRRM has often contradicted himself.  To the point where I take everything he says with a pinch of salt.

My personal view is that we'll never get a book ending.  But if we do, then I think it will be a different ending to that of the show (GRRM's original ending that he told D&D about).  I believe that one of the main reason's TWOW is taking so long to get out is because GRRM is changing a lot of his story, including the ending, to ensure that the books tangent way off from the TV show going forward.

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Cersei will somehow either never be tried or will survive it and Margeary may not survive her trial for some reason. The reign of Tommen will be short and Myrcella is probably not going to survive longer than Tommen if not pre-decease him.

Arya will return to Westeros either on the run from the Facelessmen or simply with their blessing to kill her family's enemies/deliver justice.

Bran will learn the past present and return to Winterfell at some point.

The Boltons will lose Winterfell.

Dany will come to Westeros.

The Martells do not seem to have long term success.

Walder Frey is F'd.

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On 6/29/2017 at 5:57 PM, Ser Gareth said:

Historically GRRM has often contradicted himself.  To the point where I take everything he says with a pinch of salt.

My personal view is that we'll never get a book ending.  But if we do, then I think it will be a different ending to that of the show (GRRM's original ending that he told D&D about).  I believe that one of the main reason's TWOW is taking so long to get out is because GRRM is changing a lot of his story, including the ending, to ensure that the books tangent way off from the TV show going forward.

Very possible, I believe he is capable of doing something that foolish, but we will probably never know since Winds will be his last book in the series.

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On 7/3/2017 at 9:45 AM, Cas Stark said:

Very possible, I believe he is capable of doing something that foolish, but we will probably never know since Winds will be his last book in the series.

Well, I think if the show and books have different endings, we'll probably get mixed reactions.

Some people might like the show ending better, some people might like the books ending better.

If that happens, there could be even more interesting discussions on these boards.

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1 hour ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

Red Wedding II at RIverrun will happen. Euron/Cersei alliance will happen. 

Cersei probably won t even be alive at this point in the books.... we have aegon there and euron is very.different.

What I can see is the BWB going to the wall and the dragonstone mine being pretty important 

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If Dany doesn't come to Westeros with the intention to reach a peaceful solution with Aegon I could see her landing on Dragonstone first. Her people mining obsidian there is also very likely.

Stannis will burn Shireen and eventually die, possibly in some early campaign against the Others.

Cersei and Euron will team up and marry each other but Aegon will play Cersei's role on the Iron Throne. Cersei should hook up with Euron on the Arbor, I think.

Catelyn is most definitely not going to lead her people to the Wall. Why should she? She has no reason to save mankind. Brienne might end up up there, playing a prominent role in the fight against the Others, but if she does she'll go up there more or less by herself at a later point in the story.

Sandor could also end up in crucial role fighting the Others, but he, too, is not likely to actually travel to the Wall. That's just show filler and a way to wrap-up the brotherhood story.

The Dorne, Reach, Riverlands, Vale stories won't have anything in common with the show. The show is killing characters left and right, racing to the ending. The books are not doing that.

Eventually the Stark children will be reunited in some fashion but not in this way. It should happen only around the time the Others attack or even only during that war. We won't see writing chapters featuring them sitting on their asses in Winterfell, basically doing nothing. Once the Boltons are dealt with there are no mortal enemies up there, making it completely unnecessary and boring to have them sitting in the middle of nowhere, doing nothing. Once the Boltons are dealt with no outsiders but the Others are going to threaten the North. Nobody will try to invade the North in the middle of winter, making any plot elements connected to the Others boring as hell.

I also very much doubt that Bran will return from the cave - perhaps in the very end of the story but not before. It should be pretty much impossible for him in the middle of winter, and he should be able to talk to people through the weirwoods and other means. The show clearly didn't want to go down that road in any way.

There is also pretty much no chance that 'the Night King' will get a dragon or anything like that in the books considering that this character doesn't seem to be exist in the books. The chance of a wightified dragon is not all that low, but I'd expect it to be a long dead dragon rather than one of Dany's, especially in light of the fact that, you know, the dragon has three heads in the books. In the show that phrase was never even mentioned, meaning that neither the dragonrider question nor the dragon heads question will be raised, discussed, or resolved in the show. In that context one of the dragons can easily be killed - something that's not likely to happen in the books, at least not until the ultimate finale.

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On 03/07/2017 at 10:45 AM, Cas Stark said:

Very possible, I believe he is capable of doing something that foolish, but we will probably never know since Winds will be his last book in the series.

You can keep saying that like it's a given, but you don't know that. Sounds condescending as hell so maybe refrain from doing that in future? Thanks.

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Posted (edited)

The main reason why I didn't like ADWD was that GRRM introduced a gazillion of new characters and I couldn't keep track of them. Aegon is ef one of such characters. I think they guy is a red herring and he is a toast. That's why he was cut from the show.

I agree that Stark children will unite at some point during the war with Others. My question is how long the war will last? I mean the Others aren't Tywin Lannister, there isn't not much space for strategies, betrayals, intrigues. Will they spend the whole TWOW hiding/running/fighting? It's just boring.

 

Edited by Ashes Of Westeros

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I'm left wondering what part The Twins will play in the end-game. It doesn't seem like it could be that significant but both GRRM and D+D want to wipe out the Freys for some reason.

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"Hold the door" is the only thing I can glean will happen in the books because it's the only thing I've seen from Seasons 5 and 6 that made me go, "wow", and I highly suspect D&D didn't write that themselves (these are the same writers who tried to give a eunuch a love story because that's where their minds go when they look at this story).

 

Cersei as Queen; Dany arrives in Westeros; Sansa goes to The Wall; Stannis dies; Red Wedding II - these all seem likely too, I guess (although I highly doubt they'll be as coincidental as involving Arya and Brienne, those circumstances are designed for specifically for the show due to a lack of compelling ancillary characters).

 

I'd agree as well that a lot of plots - especially those set up in the previous two books - will be dead-ends, but it doesn't stop them from being enjoyable as part of the overall world-building that the books do so much better. Just because some characters didn't make it as well doesn't mean they'll all die or nothing will come of them. 

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