Frederic_ed

What future events from the books can we REALLY imply from the show

127 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

The main reason why I didn't like ADWD was that GRRM introduced a gazillion of new characters and I couldn't keep track of them. Aegon is ef one of such characters. I think they guy is a red herring and he is a toast. That's why he was cut from the show.

No, Aegon was cut from the show because the show runners want to wrap up the show and finally end it. They don't want to actually adapt the AFfC/ADwD and unwritten material.

Aegon, Euron, the Dornishmen, etc. will become important players in the second half of the book series.

And the very idea that Littlefinger would abandon his grand ambitions to try to win Sansa's love and rule the North from Winterfell at her side is silly. In the books Littlefinger certainly will want to eventually marry Sansa - but he most definitely won't give up his ambitions to real power - the power to control the Iron Throne - in the process of this.

53 minutes ago, Son of a Harpy said:

"Hold the door" is the only thing I can glean will happen in the books because it's the only thing I've seen from Seasons 5 and 6 that made me go, "wow", and I highly suspect D&D didn't write that themselves (these are the same writers who tried to give a eunuch a love story because that's where their minds go when they look at this story).

Hodor will hold a door, but not some non-existent door in the cave. Instead, the door is very likely going to be the Black Gate beneath the Wall. It is made of weirwood and if Hodor merges with it somehow in an attempt to hold it against the Others then we could see how his mind is shattered the way it is. The show's take on this made no sense whatsoever in that regard. Bran seeing Hodor's past is not going to affect Hodor's past, especially not if he is just giving the present-day Hodor the command to hold some door.

But the weirwoods perceive time as static. They see everything at the same time. That means any normal human being merging with a weirwood somehow would also perceive their own life as static, and that should shatter any mind - especially if that human is completely unprepared for this.

53 minutes ago, Son of a Harpy said:

Cersei as Queen; Dany arrives in Westeros; Sansa goes to The Wall; Stannis dies; Red Wedding II - these all seem likely too, I guess (although I highly doubt they'll be as coincidental as involving Arya and Brienne, those circumstances are designed for specifically for the show due to a lack of compelling ancillary characters).

Cersei plays Aegon's role in the books, not her own. George would never humble Cersei the way he did if he intended for her to cling to power. Because there is no chance whatsoever that anybody would accept Cersei as queen in the books even if she did blow up the Great Sept (which she can't, since there is no longer any wildfire beneath the Great Sept). She has no army in KL, and anybody blowing up the Great Sept is going to face a major uprising of the commoners in the city. And hundreds of thousands of people are living in KL. Cersei would be ripped to pieces by a mad mob. And we can also be very sure that nobody in the South would follow a woman if she blew up Baelor's Sept, murdering the High Septon and the Most Devout in the process. 

Sansa may eventually go North but not in the near future. And she is most certainly not coming to ask Jon for help - or offer him any help. She never wed Ramsay in the books, her entire story in the show is nonsense, basically.

If she comes north then to claim it in her own right, backed by her own troops.

2 hours ago, Cymorococh said:

I'm left wondering what part The Twins will play in the end-game. It doesn't seem like it could be that significant but both GRRM and D+D want to wipe out the Freys for some reason.

In the books we might see a battle for the Twins. Once Catelyn has freed Edmure and the other hostages the Riverlords will join her and they will eradicate the Freys in what is most likely going to become of the bloodiest and ugliest battles of the entire series. The Freys will fight for their very lives and the Riverlanders and Catelyn won't show any mercy whatsoever. It should happen somewhere in TWoW, perhaps the second half. First they have to free the hostages. And one assumes that the Freys will be able to foresee what's going to happen then, doing anything in their power to protect their castle against the coming storm.

I expect the freezing of the Green Arm to play an important role in the fall of the Twins. It will enable the attackers to take the bridge first and/or assist each other in the attacks on both sides of the river.

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House Frey goes down is probably another thing we can add to the list of things that will happen in the books, although I'm sure it won't happen the same way, the outcome will be the same:  all the Freys will get killed.

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House Frey goes down is probably another thing we can add to the list of things that will happen in the books, although I'm sure it won't happen the same way, the outcome will be the same:  all the Freys will get killed.

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I have a question. When sam read that peole used to mix dragonglass to swords. Is it possible it was how the first men could fight the others? Because i don t think you can have swords made only of dragonglass and fighting a ww with a dagger...

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3 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

House Frey goes down is probably another thing we can add to the list of things that will happen in the books, although I'm sure it won't happen the same way, the outcome will be the same:  all the Freys will get killed.

Not all of them. Nobody is going to kill the children who are beyond the Narrow Sea, at other castles, with the Faith, etc. Septon Luceon is a Frey, too, but I doubt anybody is going to kill him as part of the 'eradication of the Freys' campaign (although he could still be killed for another reason, of course).

But certainly all the Freys at the Twins when Cat's people are going to attack the place will be killed. And not only all the Freys, all the people there. Servants, men-at-arms, women, children, etc. It will be a massacre, possibly one of the worst in Westerosi history. I imagine it be similar to the Fishfeed during the Dance. All the 'enemies' will be eradicated but the 'good guys' are going to lose many people in the process of it.

It will be part of the winter madness leading up the attack of the Others. Stannis and the Boltons continue to bleed the North, Cat and the Riverlords will continue to bleed the Riverlands, Euron is bleeding the Reach, etc.

We will be in the weird situation that those revenge fantasies many of the characters and the readers are entertaining since the Red Wedding (or even since Ned's execution) will leave a foul taste in their/our mouths, not just because they will be so savage and ugly but also because they will be counterproductive in light of the real threat.

I mean, I like the Manderlys wanting to avenge the Red Wedding but the Frey pies are really ugly. That whole thing is just disgusting. But it seems to be the beginning, not the end of stuff like that. One really wonders what George is going to have 'the good guys' do to Roose, Ramsay, Walder, Lothar, etc. They won't get easy exits. We saw that already with Vargo Hoat.

In that sense part of the morale of the tale is very likely to be that you become that what you fight if you go down the path of revenge - like Catelyn, Arya, Manderly, etc. are doing. We don't have the same kind of approach from a man like Doran Martell, for instance, who prioritizes the need and survival of his own people rather than his petty desire for revenge. And the book Ellaria is even better than that in this regard.

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Realistically:

-Tommen and Myrcella die

-Cersie eventually becomes the queen of Kings Landing

-Jamie survives LSH

-Jon is resurrected

-Rickon doesn't play a major role in the outcome of the series (he still could live, but that little kid just isn't important)

-Tyrion and Dany do meet and team up

-Dany uses her capture by Dothraki to make them part of her army. 

-Stannis does not make it out of the conflict in the North and is defeated somehow. 

-Ramsay is also defeated and House Stark is taken back by either Sansa or Jon or both. 

-Rheagar plus Lyanna equals Jon (we all really knew that anyways)

-Aegon is just a speedbump for Dany. Even if he is legit or not, he won't be a major player in the end. 

-Euron will likely forge an alliance with Cersei after failing to save Dany. 

-The Vale likely is the key to the North finally taking down the Boltons

-Sir Robert Strong is revealed to be Gregor Clegane. 

-The Sparrows are outmaneuvered by Cersei

-Shireen dies

-Sandor Clegane is alive

 

Those are all fairly certain in some form or fashion.

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On 6/20/2017 at 2:42 AM, StepStark said:

Which is really not reliable in any way,

Rickon's death would be worse than coming to nothing because he's a 7-8 years old child at this point in the books and there is no realistic way that a kid that age can have anything that even resembles a proper arc, and killing him without a proper arc would literally mean killing him for the sole purpose of killing characters which is just a cheap manipulation. So far, there is nothing I could describe as cheap manipulation in the books. On the other hand, there are many cheap manipulations in the show and one of them actually involved Rickon, and I mean the scene where Bran and him take parts.

I don't see even one reason for such beliefs except that creatively it makes sense to you because you want it to happen. But if your belief proves right it would mean that LSH's story comes literally to nothing. Just to be clear, I'm talking about the scenario in which Brienne and Jaime are relatively unhurt after LSH and their stories then on can be similar to the show version, because that's how I understood your idea. And that would mean that LSH had no purpose in the story and that bringing her back was completely meaningless in anything. Sorry but creatively and based on five books so far there are only reasons to expect exactly the opposite: that LSH will impact the story in significant ways.

Now sorry to say, but that is certainly from the left field, in the sense that it can be how you personally feel and you have every right to feel like that, but there is nothing objective to support that conclusion. I say that because literally for each and every storyline and character that is still ongoing, realistically there can be a meaningful resolution in the future books, and of all the storylines that are completed there isn't a single one that proves that Martin lost control of the story.

The problem is none of what you said actually is necessary. 

Rickon was never that important of a character. Sometimes over analyzing things can put you in a bubble. That tends to happen on here. Rickon so far has never taken any agency on his own in the story and rarely did much but cry in a couple of Bran's chapters. Him being used as a plot device, is about as likely as him coming back and taking any significant role. Not to mention, with Bran/Jon/Sansa/Arya around, a very young Rickon just doesn't really have much to offer the story. He's not even in a Tommen situation where you could realistically argue that he needs to exist just for the story to function. Also bringing him back and him dying isn't really manipulation. If he serves a purpose. Rickon was brought back in the show to add complication and more peril to the conflict with Jon and Ramsay. That's still useful in the books. GRRM would likely make it more elaborate, but that's not cheap. Not every character is going to be a major player. 

You're making an assumption that LSH's existence is somehow meant to mean that LSH is a central character. LSH existing could literally just be a means to fulfill Jamie and Brienne's character arc. Brienne's friendship with Jamie forces her to slay the women she swore and oath to. Making her and Jamie one in the same and setting both characters on a new path to find forgiveness. It doesn't have to be about Catelyn's zombie wreaking havoc. That doesn't make her meaningless. It just means she was not central to the story. Which is what many people figured. There's really not a lot of places you can go with a vengeance zombie running around. Catelyn isn't coming back the way she was. Her family is too far away from her to actually see her. It might even be a way for Brienne to bring the BWB up North (as they are heading in the show) to assist in the Northern Cause and the battle with the Others. 

You're mistake is assuming that these characters were meant to be central figures in the story at any point and not as support to other character's stories. Everyone who is a major player right now was always in some for or another a major player. Catelyn was a major player and she died, LSH is not Catelyn. She's a faded reminder of what happened to Catelyn. Rickon hasn't ever been a major character. Him being used to support another character's story isn't all that bad, he was support for Bran's story in the early portion of the series. 

 

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