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Big Bang Theory: Mostly bad but with a few high points


Ser Scot A Ellison

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On 12/05/2017 at 9:46 PM, Risto said:

How is that I have no idea... As I understand, they got some 13 million viewers last night.

Part of it is force of habit, part of it is absence of decent light-hearted comedies. There's tons of very good serious shows coming out these days, but I've been struggling to find good comedies.

On 15/05/2017 at 5:29 PM, baxus said:

This show was always supposed to have an expiration date. Sure, that change from characters as they were in season 1 to characters as they were this season could've been handled better, but I don't see how Leonard, Howard and now Sheldon getting married and Howard having a kid could not cause the huge change in their characters and group dynamics.

Pretty much the only other option would be to have these four guys remain the same as they were in season 1 and Leonard never getting Penny which would've grown old rather quickly.

Yeah, I call this "The Friends paradox." These light-hearted comedies are often based on dysfunctional adults ; that's were most of the laughs comes from, and what makes the characters so endearing to viewers. Except as the story moves forward, the characters necessarily grow until eventually they become relatively normal and potentially boring. The writers have to deal with the paradox that a successful comedy show eventually has to deal with serious issues to go on, while keeping the viewers laughing.
Friends did it relatively well by dealing with semi-serious issues (pretty much from the start), but eventually struggled with the caracters all becoming succesful in one way or the other. HIMYM tried to avoid the issue by having Barney and Robin not managing to overcome their issues, though it lost much of its comic appeal in the process imho.
The Big Bang Theory has this problem as well: by now the characters have overcome most of their original issues and the writers are struggling to keep putting them in interesting situations. It's come to the point where Stewart has possibly become the funniest character on the show, since he's the only real "loser" of the gang. But the writers have been more than reluctant to introduce serious issues to their show. Friends dealt with -among other things- unwanted pregnancies and divorces for instance, while HIMYM dealt with barrenness and divorce... By comparison, TBBT tends to rely on secondary characters for this, which means the main characters have become increasingly predictable and boring. I was expecting a serious issue to pop up in this tenth season (like Leonard and Penny divorcing or someone cheating on someone), but it hasn't happened, which means it may be too late for the show to renew itself. They probably ought to head to a conclusion now.

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On Mon May 15 2017 at 2:36 PM, Risto said:

I feel as if American comedy have a very determined expiration date. Simply, comedies don't grow very good. Some of my once-upon-a-time favorites like "Everybody loves Raymond" became horrifyingly ordinary upon rewatch. 

 

I don't agree.  Many comedies stand the test of time very well.  I Love Lucy, MASH, Golden Girls, among others...all had some ups and downs and they all, despite the dates nature of the setting or clothes, tackled issues and used comedy in a way that still work today.

Will Big Bang fall into that category?  Likely not. HIMYM (despite the finale), Modern Family, some of the HBO comedies, are all candidates for better immortality.  

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7 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

I don't agree.  Many comedies stand the test of time very well.  I Love Lucy, MASH, Golden Girls, among others...all had some ups and downs and they all, despite the dates nature of the setting or clothes, tackled issues and used comedy in a way that still work today.

Will Big Bang fall into that category?  Likely not. HIMYM (despite the finale), Modern Family, some of the HBO comedies, are all candidates for better immortality.  

I know that this wasn't a reply to my post, but since I was the first one to mention "expiration date", I feel the need to clarify I didn't mean that it would be bad on rewatch in a few years or a decade. I meant that it doesn't make sense to keep running it for 10+ years since there is no way to keep characters funny for the same reason for that long. In BBT example, having four guys whose main focus in life are science, comic books and computer games is great when they're in their late twenties. Having a group of guys pushing close to 40 and doing the same is just sad.

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10 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

I don't agree.  Many comedies stand the test of time very well.  I Love Lucy, MASH, Golden Girls, among others...all had some ups and downs and they all, despite the dates nature of the setting or clothes, tackled issues and used comedy in a way that still work today.

Will Big Bang fall into that category?  Likely not. HIMYM (despite the finale), Modern Family, some of the HBO comedies, are all candidates for better immortality.  

The comedy that has best dealt with growth in the past decade is "The Middle."  The kids have grown up, moved through the normal school ranks (Axel just graduated college), and I dare say the show is a good or better than ever. 

Instead of maintaining its focus on Frankie's insecurities or the family's financial duress as in the early years as a kind of watered-down Roseanne, it shifted to show how Axel and Sue handled college and Brick handled high school.

It's poignant and provides several great laughs every episode without devolving into absurdity or pure slapstick.

TBBT finds poignancy once in a great while (Howard's mom passing away), but mostly veers into selfish and mean-spirited laughs. A lot of opportunity to become an iconic show is lost in the low-brow antics of man child Sheldon.

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1 hour ago, The Wedge said:

The comedy that has best dealt with growth in the past decade is "The Middle."  The kids have grown up, moved through the normal school ranks (Axel just graduated college), and I dare say the show is a good or better than ever. 

Instead of maintaining its focus on Frankie's insecurities or the family's financial duress as in the early years as a kind of watered-down Roseanne, it shifted to show how Axel and Sue handled college and Brick handled high school.

It's poignant and provides several great laughs every episode without devolving into absurdity or pure slapstick.

TBBT finds poignancy once in a great while (Howard's mom passing away), but mostly veers into selfish and mean-spirited laughs. A lot of opportunity to become an iconic show is lost in the low-brow antics of man child Sheldon.

I loathe The Middle...mostly because Mrs. Jax generally has the reruns on Freeform or Hallmark all the time as her background noise...

It's also one of those shows that you don't realize is on its eight season because it is generally so under the radar...much like the recent Tim Allen controversy/show cancellation, did anyone even realize he had a show on anymore? I like to think I follow television programming enough in general to know what's out there, so I remember he had gotten a new show.  That it was on for six years was startling...

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34 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

I loathe The Middle...mostly because Mrs. Jax generally has the reruns on Freeform or Hallmark all the time as her background noise...

It's also one of those shows that you don't realize is on its eight season because it is generally so under the radar...much like the recent Tim Allen controversy/show cancellation, did anyone even realize he had a show on anymore? I like to think I follow television programming enough in general to know what's out there, so I remember he had gotten a new show.  That it was on for six years was startling...

We're off the TBBT topic here, but The Middle is so far above any Tim Allen grunt-fest on TV. 

The characters have grown literally and figuratively.  The writers have not tried to keep them in a state of suspended adolescence.  They swerved away from early season focus on Frankie working at a car dealer (and jettisoned side character Chris Kattan in the process... thankfully) and set about the relatable challenges of the kids getting through awkward times in their lives.  All without turning it into some crap Dan Schneider created NickTeen show.

Plus, I feel like Mike Heck all the time. I just want to provide for my family and have a couple of beers, while acting like the broken down appliances and holes in the wall can wait a few days or weeks or months to be fixed.

/defense of The Middle as a quality sit-com.

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20 hours ago, Rippounet said:

Part of it is force of habit, part of it is absence of decent light-hearted comedies. There's tons of very good serious shows coming out these days, but I've been struggling to find good comedies.

I think the habit plays a role... I know I have been watching it more out of habit then out of joy... That also explains why in God's name Greys anatomy has reached Season 14!!!

And yes, generally, I know good dramas. Good comedies, not so much. The only two I am currently watching are TBBT and Modern Family. Oh, and Master of None. I seriously don't consider Orange is the New Black as a comedy.

17 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

I don't agree.  Many comedies stand the test of time very well.  I Love Lucy, MASH, Golden Girls, among others...all had some ups and downs and they all, despite the dates nature of the setting or clothes, tackled issues and used comedy in a way that still work today.

Will Big Bang fall into that category?  Likely not. HIMYM (despite the finale), Modern Family, some of the HBO comedies, are all candidates for better immortality.  

Well, yes... I guess you have a point. IDK, I just feel that sometimes American comedy doesn't work well out of time that is made in. That said, sometimes it does work. I guess it all depends on the episode. "Everybody Loves Raymond" is overall tragic, but there are some episodes. Friends withstood the test of time rather well. "Sex and the City" is still popular here in Serbia. So, who knows? I still enjoy watching Penny giving Sheldon Leonard Nimoy napkin... Those were the times.

10 hours ago, baxus said:

I know that this wasn't a reply to my post, but since I was the first one to mention "expiration date", I feel the need to clarify I didn't mean that it would be bad on rewatch in a few years or a decade. I meant that it doesn't make sense to keep running it for 10+ years since there is no way to keep characters funny for the same reason for that long. In BBT example, having four guys whose main focus in life are science, comic books and computer games is great when they're in their late twenties. Having a group of guys pushing close to 40 and doing the same is just sad.

One could say that nowadays we get easily tired of something. Expiration date, in the way you talked about it, is much shorter these days.

That said, I do hope my life won't be sad when in my late 30ies, I go on and on about science and how Sansa is the best Stark ever :D 

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2 hours ago, Risto said:

I think the habit plays a role... I know I have been watching it more out of habit then out of joy... That also explains why in God's name Greys anatomy has reached Season 14!!!

And yes, generally, I know good dramas. Good comedies, not so much. The only two I am currently watching are TBBT and Modern Family. Oh, and Master of None. I seriously don't consider Orange is the New Black as a comedy.

Crazy-Ex Girlfriend my friend. Hilarious, clever musical numbers, interesting plot, great characters, and very intelligent writers deconstructing the usual stereotypes and assumptions. Honestly, watch it, so worth it. 

(Also, I just binged both seasons of master of None. Brilliant stuff.) 

Habit certainly plays a role in TBBT popularity over here in my experience. Most people I know like to put tv on while they cook or eat dinner as background noise, and TBBT is on at the ideal times for that. I can't honestly say I find it funny anymore, but because my flatmates put on the tv when I'm in the kitchen I end up watching it. 

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12 hours ago, Risto said:

That said, I do hope my life won't be sad when in my late 30ies, I go on and on about science and how Sansa is the best Stark ever :D 

There's nothing wrong with going on and on about science, SF or fantasy literature/movies etc. or having any other interest or hobby.

It's just a problem if it seriously affects your relationships and interactions with other people. For example, if you couldn't speak to women (Raj), consider them nothing but distraction and a nuisance (Sheldon) and can only approach them with creepy lines (Howard), then you'd have a problem.

Hell, I'll be turning 34 later this year and I still consider playing pen and paper Dungeons and Dragons with my friends one of the most fun things to do. But it's definitely not the only thing I consider fun. ;) 

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1 hour ago, Ded As Ned said:

And now there's going to be a spinoff?  Young Sheldon.  Ugh

Yes, I have even watched a trailer but for some reason it was deleted from the youtube. I think it does have a potential because it shows Sheldon struggling with not just his surroundings but with the people he loves the most - his parents. It can easily get tacky, but I am intrigued to see how they can handle it. That said...

Spoiler

There was a moment when Sheldon was taking off his mitten he is wearing during the prayer so he would have a contact with his father. 

It was so sweet it made me almost cry :D 

 

On 5/18/2017 at 10:36 AM, baxus said:

There's nothing wrong with going on and on about science, SF or fantasy literature/movies etc. or having any other interest or hobby.

It's just a problem if it seriously affects your relationships and interactions with other people. For example, if you couldn't speak to women (Raj), consider them nothing but distraction and a nuisance (Sheldon) and can only approach them with creepy lines (Howard), then you'd have a problem.

Hell, I'll be turning 34 later this year and I still consider playing pen and paper Dungeons and Dragons with my friends one of the most fun things to do. But it's definitely not the only thing I consider fun. ;) 

Of course :D I know what you meant... I was just teasing you.

The show is in a rut. It simply is void of any good ideas to move the characters in any seemingly logical direction. Even the last week's proposal was something done without even thinking it through. It sometimes lacks humanity, it lacks essence. It is a caricature. 

Finally, there is a "Game of Thrones" quiz here in Belgrade next week and I am going to take the medal in the name of all Lemoncakes of the world... My love for fantasy is still going strong :D 

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16 hours ago, Risto said:

Finally, there is a "Game of Thrones" quiz here in Belgrade next week and I am going to take the medal in the name of all Lemoncakes of the world... My love for fantasy is still going strong :D 

Some of my friends asked if I wanted to take part in that. It's a team event if I remember correctly. Might have a go at it, though I'm nowhere near as certain of winning the medal as you seem to be. ;) 

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54 minutes ago, baxus said:

Some of my friends asked if I wanted to take part in that. It's a team event if I remember correctly. Might have a go at it, though I'm nowhere near as certain of winning the medal as you seem to be. ;) 

Yeah, it is a team event... Several weeks ago we have won the medal for "Harry Potter" semifinal. We know our fantasy :D 

If you come, please drop by "Lemoncakes" table :D It would be nice to meet you.

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On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 4:40 PM, Risto said:

Yes, I have even watched a trailer but for some reason it was deleted from the youtube. I think it does have a potential because it shows Sheldon struggling with not just his surroundings but with the people he loves the most - his parents. It can easily get tacky, but I am intrigued to see how they can handle it. That said...

  Reveal hidden contents

There was a moment when Sheldon was taking off his mitten he is wearing during the prayer so he would have a contact with his father. 

It was so sweet it made me almost cry :D 

 

 

Trailer is up here

For those who hate laugh tracks and like single cam sitcoms it may be a temptation to check out. Doesn't look great, does look harmless and cute. I'll give it a try.

 

And I loved The Middle for the first 5 or 6 seasons, I'll still watch those episodes in reruns years from now, I'm just tired of it atm, even the new episodes. Please just before it ends, let there be a brief cameo of Zach Braff playing a janitor that gives Mike a real hard time.

I still watch Everybody Loves Raymond on TV Land, for me that show is endlessly rewatchable. Maybe because I'm a second generation Italian American I identify with it more. No matter how many times I've seen the braciole episode I'll watch it again whenever it is on. Also, even though I know she's overbearing I side with Marie 99% of the time over Debra. And Frank IS my dad, just replace "Holy Crap" with "God Bless America".

MASH, All in the Family, Taxi, Barney Miller, Good Times, Soap, Mork & Mindy, Three's Company (this one more than other show on this list - though all to some degree - because I find it more nostalgic-comforting than smart-funny-entertaining) Night Court (early seasons) WKRP, Cheers (mostly Shelly Long era), Frasier, The Simpsons,  (seasons 1-10), King of the Hill, The Wonder Years, The Critic, The Cosby Show (if you can separate Cosby the actor from the character and series), Mad About You, NewsRadio, Raymond, King of Queens, Scrubs, Arrested Development, The Office (both series) Parks and Recreation, Modern Family, Louie, and some others I know I'm forgetting (eta: Community!!!), I will always enjoy watching over and over. Maybe with some of these shows there was some downgrade in how much I enjoyed them between their current runs to rerun era or between my childhood and adulthood, but I think there's just an initial downgrade and then they find a still significant and unchanging level of interest for me.

Sorry for thread drift.

 

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3 hours ago, drawkcabi said:

Trailer is up here

For those who hate laugh tracks and like single cam sitcoms it may be a temptation to check out. Doesn't look great, does look harmless and cute. I'll give it a try.

It is not available for me... :D I hate laugh tracks... That is why I adore Master of None, which seems to be quite refreshing... Excellent comedy.

3 hours ago, drawkcabi said:

I still watch Everybody Loves Raymond on TV Land, for me that show is endlessly rewatchable. Maybe because I'm a second generation Italian American I identify with it more. No matter how many times I've seen the braciole episode I'll watch it again whenever it is on. Also, even though I know she's overbearing I side with Marie 99% of the time over Debra. And Frank IS my dad, just replace "Holy Crap" with "God Bless America".

The late Doris Roberts was indeed a comedy legend. Her Marie was so much fun to watch and it is something one can relate to on so many levels. I was more thinking "How is poor Debra putting up with all of that" Seriously, I would have divorced Raymond somewhere in the middle of Season 2. There are some legendary episodes and overall it is close to my heart, but there are some things, especially in the first few seasons that I could live without. It gets better as it progresses. 

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9 hours ago, Risto said:

It is not available for me... :D I hate laugh tracks... That is why I adore Master of None, which seems to be quite refreshing... Excellent comedy.

Me neither, but I found this, I suppose it is the same?

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14 hours ago, drawkcabi said:

 

And I loved The Middle for the first 5 or 6 seasons, I'll still watch those episodes in reruns years from now, I'm just tired of it atm, even the new episodes. Please just before it ends, let there be a brief cameo of Zach Braff playing a janitor that gives Mike a real hard time.

I still watch Everybody Loves Raymond on TV Land, for me that show is endlessly rewatchable. Maybe because I'm a second generation Italian American I identify with it more. No matter how many times I've seen the braciole episode I'll watch it again whenever it is on. Also, even though I know she's overbearing I side with Marie 99% of the time over Debra. And Frank IS my dad, just replace "Holy Crap" with "God Bless America".

 

Raymond for me is one of the most subversive, darkest mainstreams shows I've ever seen. Its like every member of the cast is trapped in their own personal hell, and is constantly trying to escape. The sheer misery of their lives is quite marvellous to watch. 

I also find it quite a refreshing take on relationships, its actually deeply honest and shows people who are quite flawed individuals who don't always act in the ideal way, like humans do. I know lots of other shows do that now, but Raymond really managed to do it in what seemed to be the most harmless family friendly format you could imagine.

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  • 3 months later...
5 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

Good review of how regressive & misogynist this show is:

Comments?

Ugh, they will make videos about anything these days! 

Either way, Big Bang is guilty of a lot of crimes, but I wouldn't call it misogynistic. Even with the videos point at Lampshading the real nastiness of Big Bang lays at the way it treats its main characters. They are often creepy and weird, and its always pointed out that they are creepy and weird, the joke is that they are being creepy and don't understand it. If they were lionising their behaviour or holding it up as some sort of normality then the video might have a point, but in fact its the opposite. The show is saying 'look at these losers and their backwards behaviour, what a bunch of freaks'

The real victims of this show are nerdy men. The writers have almost no concept of geek culture, and almost certainly hate it and look down on it. Their characters are a big melting pot of every nerd cliche ever and the show asks that you poke fun at them week after week. That the main character clearly has some form of autism (well sometimes, when the jokes demand it) and that is one of its main comedic elements is where people should really be pointing their anger.

 

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