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Stormking902

If Renly legitimized Edric "Baratheon" and Mya Baratheon wouldnt that open more doors??

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If Renly was to make Roberts known bastards Baratheons and made Edric heir to Storms End not KL since the Tyrells still want Marg as queen and there sons/daughters heir to the throne, Renly would have 2 Baratheons to offer to either Robb or Sweet Robin, maybe even the Martells etc. Is this a smart move or dumb????

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I don't know if someone would want to marry a bastard (evena legitimated one). In spite of that, could sill be a good idea. With Renly dead, the Tyrells could pretend he had made Edric his heir and marry him to Maergery, while Mya marries Willas. Most storm lords loved Robert and Renly, so they would support Edric, not Stannis. And maybe Robb and Edric could make peace (their fathers were best friends, both are young not-mad kings, the Young Wolf and perhaps the Young Stag)

Also, Edric and the Tyrells could find other royal bastards, like Gendry (we know Robert had a lot of them), legitimize them, and marry them to members of smaller houses, as the big ones would not want to marry them (their mothers weren't even highborn).

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Edric is still a very good marriageable option whether he was legitimised or not, however legitimising him weakens Renly and Renly's future children's claims. on the Throne. Renly may not want to be giving him a powerful marriage alliance till his own hold on the realm is secure. 

 

Mya was never acknowledged by Robert. She is just a peasant to 99.99% of the realm. She was born and raised a peasant and with Robert dead there is no one really to substantiate her birth. Reny may as well claim some of his own servents as Robert's bastards for all the good that would do. 

 

Renly had the largest army in the Kingdom. He was young, married to the daughter of the second most powerful Lord in the realm. Magic assasins aside he was fine, he did not have to dilute his own claim. 

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On Invalid Date at 0:41 PM, Stormking902 said:

If Renly was to make Roberts known bastards Baratheons and made Edric heir to Storms End not KL since the Tyrells still want Marg as queen and there sons/daughters heir to the throne, Renly would have 2 Baratheons to offer to either Robb or Sweet Robin, maybe even the Martells etc. Is this a smart move or dumb????

If Renly legitimizes Edric then he has made Edric the heir to the throne, the son of Robert would hold precedence over either Himself (Renly) or Stannis, assuming that he can get enough people to believe that Joffrey is the son of Jaime, not Robert.  Now he could still marry Margaery to Edric to make her Queen. 

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Also, since Renly is definitely usurping Stannis, what's to say this won't cause a problem when Edric / his descendants try and assert their rights? It's not like Renly will have much of a leg to stand on.

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I doubt Renly would want to give away his personal seat and power base to a legitimised bastard of his brother for the sake of a flimsy alliance with Dorne, Mya is neither here nor there, she's basically unknown. I doubt Renly even knows she exists or would think of her in such a way if he did. Edric's the only bastard that has real potential to be important politically since he's been acknowledged by Robert and raised at Storm's End. 

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On 5/12/2017 at 10:41 AM, Stormking902 said:

If Renly was to make Roberts known bastards Baratheons and made Edric heir to Storms End not KL since the Tyrells still want Marg as queen and there sons/daughters heir to the throne, Renly would have 2 Baratheons to offer to either Robb or Sweet Robin, maybe even the Martells etc. Is this a smart move or dumb????

If only the book wasn't written the way it was by the author who wrote it. 

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4 hours ago, Byfort of Corfe said:

 

If Renly legitimizes Edric then he has made Edric the heir to the throne, the son of Robert would hold precedence over either Himself (Renly) or Stannis, assuming that he can get enough people to believe that Joffrey is the son of Jaime, not Robert.  Now he could still marry Margaery to Edric to make her Queen. 

Basically this. Renly was already intending to kill his brothers legitimate children, why would he legitimize a person who would then have greater claim to the throne than him?

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4 hours ago, bent branch said:

Basically this. Renly was already intending to kill his brothers legitimate children, why would he legitimize a person who would then have greater claim to the throne than him?

Renly knew about the incest.

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In the eyes of the Lannisters who hold the Throne, Stannis and even Robb Stark Renly isn't the rightful King in the first place so only Renly supporters would consider his decrees legal. If he dies all his decrees would die with him. The Tyrells could have said Renly did legitimize Edric and married him to Margaery but it was a much more logical choice to make Margaery Queen through Joffrey.

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2 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Renly knew about the incest.

I'm sorry, no. Renly not only didn't know about the incest, but when he found out about it he didn't believe it. (ACOK - Chapter 31):
 

Quote

 

Renly laughed. "You must forgive Lady Catelyn, Stannis. She's come all the way down from Riverrun, a long way ahorse. I fear she never saw your little letter."

"Joffrey is not my brother's seed," Stannis said bluntly. "Nor is Tommen. They are bastards. The girl as well. All three of them abominations born of incest."

Would even Cersei be so mad? Catelyn was speechless.

"Isn't that a sweet story, my lady?" Renly asked. "I was camped at Horn Hill when Lord Tarly received his letter, and I must say, it took my breath away." He smiled at his brother. "I had never suspected you were so clever, Stannis. Were it only true, you would indeed be Robert's heir."

"Were it true? Do you name me a liar?"

"Can you prove any word of this fable?"

 

So, there it is. Renly believed Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella were his blood relatives but he had every intention of killing them anyway.

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13 hours ago, Byfort of Corfe said:

 

If Renly legitimizes Edric then he has made Edric the heir to the throne, the son of Robert would hold precedence over either Himself (Renly) or Stannis, assuming that he can get enough people to believe that Joffrey is the son of Jaime, not Robert.  Now he could still marry Margaery to Edric to make her Queen. 

Not true........ Edric being legitimized all hinges on Renlys claim as king, Edric claiming he has the better claim then his uncle only hurts his position since Renly couldnt technically legitimize him in the first place. Also why would Edric fight Renly to begin with if his uncle is offering him SE his fathers castle for nothing...... Edric would be happy as lord of SE if he seeked more he should have his head removed. 

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10 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

If only the book wasn't written the way it was by the author who wrote it. 

Man why do u comment on these what if threads?? Every time you say the same thing just dont click on the what if threads and go away........ Your a lil troll and noone cares about your opinions. 

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9 hours ago, bent branch said:

I'm sorry, no. Renly not only didn't know about the incest, but when he found out about it he didn't believe it. (ACOK - Chapter 31):
 

So, there it is. Renly believed Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella were his blood relatives but he had every intention of killing them anyway.

Renly lied. If he admitted it then he would have to admit that Stannis was King.

http://racefortheironthrone.tumblr.com/post/159047041306/why-do-you-say-renly-knew-about-cersei-x-jamie

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Renly lied. If he admitted it then he would have to admit that Stannis was King.

http://racefortheironthrone.tumblr.com/post/159047041306/why-do-you-say-renly-knew-about-cersei-x-jamie

i'm sorry, but that makes no sense. If the evidence that Renly knew about the incest was his planned marriage of Robert to Margaery then why, on the same page and in the same conversation, is he denying knowing about the incest? Surely Cat, Stannis and all the Lords present should have reached the same conclusion that this tumblr writer did if that was the case?

 

Or go back to the conversation between Renly and Ned while Robert was on his deathbed. 

 

Quote

Lord Renly took a step back, taut as a bowstring. "Every moment you delay gives Cersei another moment to prepare. By the time Robert dies, it may be too late … for both of us."

Surly this is the time to reveal the truth to Ned, when he seems to be worried about his own life should Cersei become ruler. 

Edited by Bernie Mac

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12 hours ago, bent branch said:

So, there it is. Renly believed Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella were his blood relatives but he had every intention of killing them anyway.

Usurping them? Sure.

Killing them? Except maybe Joffrey, no way. He's way too obsessed with image and realpolitik, he'd likely send Joffrey to the Wall and keep Tommen and Myrcella as "wards" as to ensure Tywin (and his heir after him) doesn't cause a fuss.

He's not going to risk sullying his image of the most gracious King of the Commons by executing children, children supposedly related to him, making him a kinslayer.

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I think, if Ned had been smarter, he should've legitimized Edric by altering Robert's will in his deathbed. Then, using Renly's connections to the Tyrells, he should've brokered a marriage between Edric and Margaery. Renly would then be free to marry someone else (Ysilla Royce? Gwyneth Yronwood? Sansa?) for political gain. Stannis would be pissed as hell but he would have to go suck an egg because as far as he'd know it'd all be perfectly legal. 

21 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

If only the book wasn't written the way it was by the author who wrote it. 

Here's a "what if" scenario for you: What if you didn't comment on threads you obviously hate? Nothing of value would be lost, that's what would happen. 

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4 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Renly lied. If he admitted it then he would have to admit that Stannis was King.

http://racefortheironthrone.tumblr.com/post/159047041306/why-do-you-say-renly-knew-about-cersei-x-jamie

Renly did not lie. If Renly knew before he could have told Robert. Robert would have killed Jaime, Cersei and the three children. Then Renly could have presented Margaery to Robert without any problems. Renly's behavior indicated that he didn't know and GRRM backed up that impression by having Renly himself say so. Besides, why would Renly have any problem with admitting Stannis was king? By Westerosi standards, Renly was already betraying Stannis. This wasn't changed by the fact of the three children.

1 hour ago, Sullen said:

Usurping them? Sure.

Killing them? Except maybe Joffrey, no way. He's way too obsessed with image and realpolitik, he'd likely send Joffrey to the Wall and keep Tommen and Myrcella as "wards" as to ensure Tywin (and his heir after him) doesn't cause a fuss.

He's not going to risk sullying his image of the most gracious King of the Commons by executing children, children supposedly related to him, making him a kinslayer.

Renly had to kill all three children in order to secure his throne. As long as any of the three children lived, the Lannisters would continue to press their claim. When GRRM had Renly killed by supernatural means he kind of smudged the fact that Renly was always the most vulnerable of the kings and was destined to die. If the Lannister bastards lived Renly was always a target for assassination. The fact that Pycelle was clearly Tywin's man shows Renly had no possibility of survival as long as one of the children lived.

The thing is that the children were always destined to die. The only "player" who thought of those childrens' welfare was Ned. And look at how that went.

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1 hour ago, Sullen said:

Usurping them? Sure.

Killing them? Except maybe Joffrey, no way. He's way too obsessed with image and realpolitik, he'd likely send Joffrey to the Wall and keep Tommen and Myrcella as "wards" as to ensure Tywin (and his heir after him) doesn't cause a fuss.

He's not going to risk sullying his image of the most gracious King of the Commons by executing children, children supposedly related to him, making him a kinslayer.

He says he will provide justice for Ned and Robert.He starts with Cersei's head but once he finds out how the execution plays out, there really isn't much keeping Joffrey alive. He's a "pretender"as well. I can probably agree with Tommen and Marcella being kept alive. Myrcella is already in Dorne anyway and Tommen is not in KL.

Cersei, Joff, Janos Slynt, and likely Ilyn Payne would be in for a rough after party.

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Posted (edited)

40 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

He says he will provide justice for Ned and Robert.He starts with Cersei's head but once he finds out how the execution plays out, there really isn't much keeping Joffrey alive. He's a "pretender"as well. I can probably agree with Tommen and Marcella being kept alive. Myrcella is already in Dorne anyway and Tommen is not in KL.

Cersei, Joff, Janos Slynt, and likely Ilyn Payne would be in for a rough after party.

Then Renly is doomed. I am not the one who wrote it such that Renly's heirs (until he had some of his own) were Cersei's children and the Grand Maester (which the Citadel chose) was Tywin's man through and through. Maybe Renly couldn't see that he was a dead man if he didn't kill them, but the reader should know that there was no way Renly lived as long as there was Pycelle and a Lannister heir to the throne.

ETA: Like I said before, by killing Renly through supernatural means, GRRM muddied the fact that Renly's path to the throne was through the death of everyone he thought was his blood relative or else Renly ultimately died. There was no other way for Renly. That is why most Westerosi were rather horrified by what he was doing. To summarize, Renly killed all his blood relatives (with the possible exception of Shireen) or he failed.

Edited by bent branch

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