Did Dornish princesses use right of first night in the past?

[Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn]

We know that Dorne was ruled by male and sometimes female rulers. Let's say one of these female rulers go to wedding. Could she use the right of first night?

[Traverys]

It's possible... it's to my understanding that Dornish are neither First Men nor Andals. They are largely separate in culture from the cultures that had a "first night" practice.

Another thing to consider is the implications of having sex outside of marriage during those times. Sticking strictly to highborn, men were not compelled to only have sex with their wife. As long as they had heirs with their wife they weren't judged too harshly by anyone for having a paramour or visiting brothels. Women, on the other hand, were relied upon to have trueborn children. Even in Dornish culture, the paternity of the child could easily be called into question if she was known to partake in first night. Even if bastards aren't treated with such scorn in Dorne, people are still concerned with trueborn children, and that's just basic genetics and evolution. Why waste all your resources raising a kid that isn't even half your DNA?

We could also venture into double-standards territory in saying that it would also shame a husband because he would be seen as unable to satisfy his lady wife in the bed chamber, thus making her turn to peasant men for satisfaction. Considering the (false) realm-wide perception of women's sexuality in general (i.e., that they had very little in comparison to men), it would look bad for both wife and husband if she was "sleeping around." She would be described as wanton and he would be described as unmanly.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

No .

[velo-knight]

Doubtful. It's definitely incompatible with the fact that women bear children, and thus might arise a situation where the legal heir is of dubious paternity - and while the Dornish may not care as much about bastardy, they most certainly do still care about class. The possibility of a half-peasant heir would be unacceptable even to the Dornish.

Beyond that, I doubt the cultural forces that push for women's equality also allow First Night, which is an incredibly obvious slap in the face to any notion of equality.

[The Mountain That Flies]

I'm not sure what the motivator would be for a Princess of Dorne to engage in this. The logic behind a Lord's right to the First Night is that there is value in a virgin bride, and peasants owe things of value to their Lord. Westeros doesn't seem to place much value in male virginity, so a Princess taking a male peasant doesn't make sense from that angle.

I suppose a Princess could just want a bit of side action, but as the others above indicated that runs a ton of risks.

[Traverys]

2 hours ago, The Mountain That Flies said:

I'm not sure what the motivator would be for a Princess of Dorne to engage in this. The logic behind a Lord's right to the First Night is that there is value in a virgin bride, and peasants owe things of value to their Lord. Westeros doesn't seem to place much value in male virginity, so a Princess taking a male peasant doesn't make sense from that angle.

I suppose a Princess could just want a bit of side action, but as the others above indicated that runs a ton of risks.

Thanks for that. Something I've never thought about.

[Lord Wraith]

15 hours ago, Brandon Baratheon said:

We know that Dorne was ruled by male and sometimes female rulers. Let's say one of these female rulers go to wedding. Could she use the right of fist night?

The right of the First Night is traditionally only practiced by the First Men and the Valyrians houses in the Narrow Sea. There is nothing I can remember reading that suggests the Rhoynar of which House Martell is descended from practiced something similar.

[Vaedys Targaryen]

3 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

The right of the First Night is traditionally only practiced by the First Men and the Valyrians houses in the Narrow Sea. There is nothing I can remember reading that suggests the Rhoynar of which House Martell is descended from practiced something similar.

Well, considering that it was the First Men who began the practise and to which the Andals and later the Valyrians also began to partake in it, one would think that the Rhoynar would also pick up the practise.

A little bit off topic, but as I was writing this, I realised that the Thenns, who are the Free Folk who are the closest to southern Westeros, do seemingly not practise First Night. Considering this, are we certain that First Night is a First Men tradition and not, maybe, an Andal tradition?

[Falcon2909]

11 hours ago, BRANDON GREYSTARK said:

No .

How do you know?

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

On Invalid Date at 3:34 AM, Falcon2909 said:

How do you know?

First night is a First Man tradition , After the Nymeria / Martell conquest of Dorne , the Dornish accepted Rhoynar customs .

1. The union between a princess and a commoner male would wreck the rights of inheritance .

2. First Night is not only about a lord's rights , but fertility rites , so I doubt our young princess would drink moon tea after the union .

3. Males and females are different , when the chose to step out men mainly do it for variety , while women when they chose sometime for companionship , while other times they are upgrading .

[Lord Wraith]

On 5/15/2017 at 3:34 AM, Vaedys Targaryen said:

Well, considering that it was the First Men who began the practise and to which the Andals and later the Valyrians also began to partake in it, one would think that the Rhoynar would also pick up the practise.

A little bit off topic, but as I was writing this, I realised that the Thenns, who are the Free Folk who are the closest to southern Westeros, do seemingly not practise First Night. Considering this, are we certain that First Night is a First Men tradition and not, maybe, an Andal tradition?

The Thenn's treat their leader like gods. If god asks to bang your wife I am sure they would agree. Also just because they don't mention it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. As other have stated the only two groups that have been known to practice it are Northerns (First Men) and Valyrians. With the First Men likely practicing it longer.

11 hours ago, BRANDON GREYSTARK said:

First night is a First Man tradition , After the Nymeria / Martell conquest of Dorne , the Dornish accepted Rhoynar customs .

1. The union between a princess and a commoner male would wreck the rights of inheritance .

2. First Night is not only about a lord's rights , but fertility rites , so I doubt our young princess would drink moon tea after the union .

3. Males and females are different , when the chose to step out men mainly do it for variety , while women when they chose sometime for companionship , while other times they are upgrading .

Basically this.

[SeanF]

Unlikely.  While there's no stigma attached to illegitimacy in Dorne, illegitimate children don't inherit titles.  A Princess would not want the legitimacy of her children to be questioned.

[The Hammer of Justice]

On 15/05/2017 at 0:33 AM, Lord Wraith said:

The right of the First Night is traditionally only practiced by the First Men and the Valyrians houses in the Narrow Sea. There is nothing I can remember reading that suggests the Rhoynar of which House Martell is descended from practiced something similar.

House Martell is descended from the Andals, not the Rhoynar

[Lord Wraith]

7 hours ago, The Hammer of Justice said:

House Martell is descended from the Andals, not the Rhoynar

Until they married Nymeria and started adopting Rhoynish customs. Either way neither practiced the right of the first night.

[The Hammer of Justice]

1 hour ago, Lord Wraith said:

Until they married Nymeria and started adopting Rhoynish customs. Either way neither practiced the right of the first night.

I think they still kept the majority of the andal culture