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Why does everyone love lady stoneheart?


snow is the man

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Is this Cat before death too? If you are just talking about LS, then I think she gets unfair treatment for all she's been through. Her desire for vengeance on the Freys is understandable and Brienne looks incredibly guilty. I wouldn't call Cat a fan favourite in life but Stoneheart is widely despised.

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I love everything about Lady Stoneheart, personally. Catelyn was in my top 3 POV characters and I was traumatized when I read the Red Wedding chapter. Seriously, I moped around for days. I at least got some solace in how she is back for vengeance and that she's not going gentle into that goodnight until all the Freys and Lannisters pay.

Do I think her existence is permanent or a happy one? Hell no.

If you want to get specific about things, I think we can take a look back to GRRMs original outline. He has Catelyn die north of the wall (while accompanying Bran and Arya) by the hands of the Others. We can assume they'd raise her body as a wight. To me, there is some incredible scene that GRRM couldn't bring himself to get rid of involving unCat, so he wrote Lady Stoneheart in his altered/edited narrative. It's either going to involve Arya or Bran or both. Considering she's trying to find the Hound, and thus Arya, it seems we can narrow it down even more.

I think it would be special for her to find out that only one of her children is dead (Robb) and that she can move on in peace. No matter what you say about Catelyn as a person, she loves her children dearly. The utter sense of loss is what drives Stoneheart.

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I've personally seen more hate for Stoneheart than love. My understanding is that many people dislike her one-dimensional nature, and that while Cat clearly paid a price for coming back the entire character of Stoneheart is unnecessary.

Personally I like that she acts a personification of how the horrors of war can turn good people into monsters. That said, there's not much of a personality to get engaged in, and my prior point of could have been supplanted by a more gradual descent.

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I've seen some excellent posts discussing LS in terms of Celtic and Norse mythology.

I believe her residual  commitment to Sansa may cause her to try and send Jaime and Brienne to rescue her...crackpot. 

Its possible she will be seen as a monster made by a commitment to veneange and may cause Arya to have a turning point, and maybe offer her mom the gift in anguish.

LS may have poetic and emotional significance. Is she really much loved? Happy Mothers Day!

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55 minutes ago, HoodedCrow said:

I've seen some excellent posts discussing LS in terms of Celtic and Norse mythology.

I believe her residual  commitment to Sansa may cause her to try and send Jaime and Brienne to rescue her...crackpot. 

Its possible she will be seen as a monster made by a commitment to veneange and may cause Arya to have a turning point, and maybe offer her mom the gift in anguish.

LS may have poetic and emotional significance. Is she really much loved? Happy Mothers Day!

Haha! Agreed! Happy Mother's Day Lady Stoneheart!

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I like the twist about who Catelyn used to be and what she's become.

I like the mix of motifs of a mother, a hanging judge, a tragic monster and of that something in the woods everyone is afraid of. And I like that she has her little cult, she's commanding a band of outlaws.

I like the sole fact that it's a person we've known well and grown used to (even for those who didn't like her) becoming a zombie. In the North we have hordes of ice zombies, but not out of any of the main characters, so there's no emotional impact.

I like the contrast between ice zombies and fire zombies.

I like magic not used in any power play, but just in a wild form, as Stoneheart is not aligned with any of the big forces in the game, just acts for herself.

And I like her potential. She's sort of a Chekhov's gun, a plot magnet in the Riverlands. There are so many characters connected to her nearby: Brienne, Jaime, Littlefinger, Sansa, and since there's also Nymeria pack and Bran's influence can probably reach to her, there're chances of her interactions with Bran and Arya too.

And harassing the Freys is always good.

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17 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

I like the twist about who Catelyn used to be and what she's become.

I like the mix of motifs of a mother, a hanging judge, a tragic monster and of that something in the woods everyone is afraid of. And I like that she has her little cult, she's commanding a band of outlaws.

I like the sole fact that it's a person we've known well and grown used to (even for those who didn't like her) becoming a zombie. In the North we have hordes of ice zombies, but not out of any of the main characters, so there's no emotional impact.

I like the contrast between ice zombies and fire zombies.

I like magic not used in any power play, but just in a wild form, as Stoneheart is not aligned with any of the big forces in the game, just acts for herself.

And I like her potential. She's sort of a Chekhov's gun, a plot magnet in the Riverlands. There are so many characters connected to her nearby: Brienne, Jaime, Littlefinger, Sansa, and since there's also Nymeria pack and Bran's influence can probably reach to her, there're chances of her interactions with Bran and Arya too.

And harassing the Freys is always good.

Exactly why I'm intrigued by Lady Stoneheart! And you've mentioned things I've never thought of as well.

The contrast between fire and ice zombies is incredibly interesting. A parallel I have never noticed.

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I personally am not a fan of Lady Stoneheart and the concept of resurrecting so many characters, and I think one of the wisest moves D&D ever pulled was leaving her out of the adaptation. I can see why people gravitate towards the character, and I've often had to hear how I just "don't get it" when I voice how much I dislike the character and concept, but my dislike still stands.

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3 hours ago, snow is the man said:

I never understood it. I don't hate her character or anything but I don't get how she seems like a fan favorite.

Do you also notice that most who like LSH are very partial to the Starks?  They like her because in their eyes she is an instrument of revenge for the Starks.  I myself do not care for LSH.

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3 hours ago, Ian Dunross said:

Do you also notice that most who like LSH are very partial to the Starks?  They like her because in their eyes she is an instrument of revenge for the Starks.  I myself do not care for LSH.

I am a huge stark fan except for bran and sansa (bran is boring to me and everytime I think of sansa I think of her yelling at arya "stop your ruining everything" Of course I imagine part of the reason I don't particulary like lady stoneheart is I never like catelyn stark. Mostly do to how she could be extremly selfish and cruel to jon

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When reading ASOS for the first time, the Stoneheart reveal was one of the most satisfying scenes after the Red Wedding. It shouldn't have come as a surprise after Arya/Nymeria pulling her out of the water, but I didn't quite register that on my first read.

After ADWD I wasn't so sure anymore that resurrecting her was a good idea. If all she is back for is Jamie's and Brienne's arc, I wish Martin had gone a different road. I still hope she will play a role beyond Jamie's trial (and possible death), but I can't see where it could go at the moment.

I like the idea of Stoneheart for several reasons. First, Catelyn's arc continues in a horrifying, but intriguing way: grief and despair have turned her heart to stone (which was foreshadowed: "We learned that to our sorrow, Ser Donnel," Catelyn said. Sometimes she felt as though her heart had turned to stone"). Second, LS embodies the desire for revenge and clearly shows what this desire will ultimately do to you. She is an interesting foil for Cersei, and even for Arya. Third, the Frey's violation of the one of Westeros' most sacred moral codes has left the North and the Riverlands traumatised and LS' story is one of several which shows how society has become unstable and other laws are being neglected or broken after (and as long as) one as monstrous as the RW have remained unpunished.

I also disagree that she is a zombie, she is the opposite of a zombie in many ways. She can't speak, but she remembers, thinks, argues, judges and communicates. She is a position of power, and there is a reason why the BWB follows her. It would be thoroughly possible to write a Stonheart-POV, and I don't think that would be possible for, say, Small Paul.

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Reading this thread has almost reconciled me with the figure of LSH.

Especially in terms of revenge, one of the major themes of the saga (or any saga)

Yes. Now I can see her as a combination of Nemesis, the Furies and other similar figures. Even Sekhmet, though Cat would hate to have a lioness' head.

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2 hours ago, LionoftheWest said:

While I liked Catelyn I can't say that I like Lady Stoneheart very much. I think one of the reasons that she's a favorite for many is that she's essentially fullfilling revenge fantasies against the Starks' enemies.

I think her function is to take the revenge fantasies too far, making us question revenge and reconciliation. Possibly by having her murder Brienne og a reformed Jamie

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I want to add that for me ls actually improves the bwb in a plot sense. Before they were there but went about without actual strategic plans. They had a nice self acclaimed goal, but it was dependent on randomness. Now they have become proactive. It's more than revenge then. They need castles and stored food for the winter. Not just the bwb but the people they protect. Hell, and if other plot lines can be about reclaiming lost lands and thrones and castles, then so can the rl plot. Ls is the rl figure that moves it along, the further catalyst. But on a personal feeling, I just feel sadness and pity for her. 

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I didn't love Catelyn or LS, in any personal way. Yes I think horror, pity and some sense of justice are evoked in me.

LS has a lot of possibilities as people have pointed out. Likely she has some symbolic significance as well. She certainly is one Hel, yes Hel, of a broken vessel!

She is reminiscent of the furies, Hel, the woodswitch, Nemesis, the Morrigen or even the evil stepmother archetype! People have said this far better than I have.

i think she would be very difficult to portray in a, cough, televion series.

Another function of the revenants might be in helping  the reader to adjust to the idea of people being resurrected. It may prepare one for Jons story.

it occurs to me that LS has the ability to sacrifice herself to bring someone else back to life...right? Isn't this inevitable? No way LS is there at the end. She could revive Jon or Bienne. But what about Arya?

Lets suppose Arya runs away after killing Cersei. She dies in the forest with Needle clutched in her fingers. Gendry or the Hound find her body, recognize her and take her to the BWB camp. LS could revive her. Arya Twiceborn could be made aware of this sacrifice, give up her vengeful ways and start a new life with Gendry, letting poor old Jeyne Poole take her place. She would gain her freedom from the limitations of the noble female role and become someone on her own terms. I'm such a Romantic.

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The character is two things for me:

1. A concept, that of all the grief and rage of a mother who has suffered the worst that a violent war can dish out. It's pure, cool vengeance.
2. As a mother myself, pity. I feel horrible for her that she was brought back into that world.

So it's not like I "love" LSH. For her, there's no simple like or dislike, Really, she's painful for me, but that's not the same as not liking the character.

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18 hours ago, Ser Frasier of House Crane said:

I personally am not a fan of Lady Stoneheart and the concept of resurrecting so many characters, and I think one of the wisest moves D&D ever pulled was leaving her out of the adaptation. I can see why people gravitate towards the character, and I've often had to hear how I just "don't get it" when I voice how much I dislike the character and concept, but my dislike still stands.

But resurrection is a recurring theme in the series. Not only of characters that suffered real death but also in many who have experienced traumatic events that "killed" them in some way (e.g. in PoV, Dany, Tyrion, Bran, Jaime, Cersei, Davos, Theon, Ariianne). So, the point is what you do with your "new life". Clearly LSH is not doing it great, but her resurrection  happened in a particular manner after a extremely traumatic event.

10 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

I want to add that for me ls actually improves the bwb in a plot sense. Before they were there but went about without actual strategic plans. They had a nice self acclaimed goal, but it was dependent on randomness. Now they have become proactive. It's more than revenge then. They need castles and stored food for the winter. Not just the bwb but the people they protect. Hell, and if other plot lines can be about reclaiming lost lands and thrones and castles, then so can the rl plot. Ls is the rl figure that moves it along, the further catalyst. But on a personal feeling, I just feel sadness and pity for her. 

This is a good point. TBWB reminds me a lot of many irregular groups and guerrillas that started to fight against great injustices, but years of fighting transform them in killing machines with no other purpose than self-preservation.

But LSH also serves to show us the perils of resurrection using the "fire kiss". We saw it already with Beric and how his memory was fading and only his mission mattered for him. Now  we see how LSH who was resurrected much later after much more traumatic events is completely merciless and focused only on revenge. This raises question what will happen to Jon Snow.

 

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Sondre said:

I think her function is to take the revenge fantasies too far, making us question revenge and reconciliation. Possibly by having her murder Brienne og a reformed Jamie

If I were any Stark I would be looking to separate Ser Kingslayer's head from his body. The Kingslayer crippled the son of the Warden on the North in his own castle in violation of guest right.

 

\My opinion of LSH is fairly neutral. I don't get the hate she receives and I don't see the "love" for LSH. I can't recall one positive thread regarding LSH.....most people on this message board seem to despise her. I am not a fan of Cat, so I find LSH a slight improvement. My dislike for the Kingslayer have ebbed a little, but I cannot forgive him for Brandon Stark. 

 

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