Suzanna Stormborn

[Book Spoilers] R+L=J, A+J=T and other theories on HBO V.4

502 posts in this topic

14 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

I'm really happy that Sandor is Team Stark this season. Just like Gendry, they both lost their Riverlands plots, where they most likely ran into Sansa and Arya, if all the many hints in the books are right. I thought it was cute, someone said how nice it was that Jon has both his sisters future husbands along for the hunt.

I will admit it...I hate the wight hunt but that is the only part I'm really looking forward (the conversations....the fact Jon meets them)...

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I don't know about that leak. I remember one leak about Sandor and Brienne about him being afraid that I don't think it's plausible, but this one is the first time I read it. 

Yes.

Spoiler

Lads1 said that Sandor isn't going anywhere near Winterfell, especially since Brienne is there.

Lads2 relayed this exchange at the dragonpit:

"In the Dragonpit though Brienne and The Hound meet again, and Arya is mentioned then. The Hound asks her if she shouldn't be taking care of Arya, and Brienne replies that 'The only person needing protecting is the one who gets in her (Arya's) way' and this makes The Hound smile, and say that he doesn't plan to be the one to do that."

 

To keep things on-topic, I will say that I enjoy seeing theories being shot down or in the alternative confirmed the closer we get to the end of the show. I do think that the endgame, whatever it is, will be a lot more conventional and predictable than book readers would have guessed. At this point, Jon on the throne with Dany at his side and Tyrion as his Hand is looking more and more likely.

Edited by Newstar

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2 minutes ago, Newstar said:

Yes.

  Hide contents

 

Lads1 said that Sandor isn't going anywhere near Winterfell, especially since Brienne is there.

Lads2 relayed this exchange at the dragonpit:

"In the Dragonpit though Brienne and The Hound meet again, and Arya is mentioned then. The Hound asks her if she shouldn't be taking care of Arya, and Brienne replies that 'The only person needing protecting is the one who gets in her (Arya's) way' and this makes The Hound smile, and say that he doesn't plan to be the one to do that."

 

 

Fine. I remember the first one, although I still think that Brienne should not be the one to talk about Sansa with the Hound. The second one...well, I just don't follow lads2.... The other day, Reading reddit, to be precise a thread in which one user says he is not legit, I found this:

[–]twi8 -

well lads said it happens in the finale. Dont get it why some people on here just believe everything lads2 says.

[–]awayfortheladspart2  

Lads 2 is saying the same thing. These are 2 different scenes buddy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/5okh4m/real_lads_said_boatsex_happens_in_ep7_the_fake/

It's just a Little weird that he refers to himself as "lads2". There are many other things that make me not believe in him. Of course, he could be right in some things, or even right in everything he says (..??..) (something that any major leaker has been so far) but let's say that this post was really weird.

So as a result I chose not to follow him.

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Posted (edited)

25 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

So as a result I chose not to follow him.

Lads2 gave specific details about 7x01, so once 7x01 airs we'll know one way or another.

One aspect of the leaks I found very interesting when it comes to dragonriding...

We know that Viserion gets wightified. We also know that there's a scene where Dany is returning from the ambush, and Jon pets Drogon, which bothers Dany. Is this just to show Jon's affinity with dragons, owing to his Targ heritage, or is it rather to suggest that Jon will bond with Drogon?

According to ASOIAF-related dragonlore, when a dragon has bonded with a rider, that dragon will only allow that one rider as long as the rider lives. Could Jon petting Drogon be a hint that Jon will ride Rhaegal, or could it be a hint that Jon will ride Drogon after Dany's death? The show could of course dispense with the one dragon/one rider rule.

I had been thinking that Tyrion as a dragonrider had been ruled out by the show with Viserion dying, but maybe he rides Rhaegal after Dany's death and Jon rides Drogon? Seems unlikely, especially given that Drogon is bonded for Dany, but it's possible, I guess.

Edited by Newstar

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2 minutes ago, Newstar said:

Lads2 gave specific details about 7x01, so once 7x01 airs we'll know one way or another.

One aspect of the leaks I found very interesting when it comes to dragonriding...

We know that Viserion gets wightified. We also know that there's a scene where Dany is returning from the ambush, and Jon pets Drogon, which bothers Dany. Is this just to show Jon's affinity with dragons, owing to his Targ heritage, or is it rather to suggest that Jon will bond with Drogon?

According to ASOIAF-related dragonlore, when a dragon has bonded with a rider, that dragon will only allow that one rider as long as the rider lives. Could Jon petting Drogon be a hint that Jon will ride Rhaegal, or could it be a hint that Jon will ride Drogon after Dany's death? The show could of course dispense with the one dragon/one rider rule.

I had been thinking that Tyrion as a dragonrider had been ruled out by the show with Viserion dying, but maybe he rides Rhaegal after Dany's death and Jon rides Drogon? Seems unlikely, especially given that Drogon is bonded for Dany, but it's possible, I guess.

Dany won't die until the very end. I'd be surprised if that happened before that and as you said dragon bonds with only one rider at the time. Drogon is the most dangerous dragon, so petting him is pretty good way of showing people what his Targaryen heritage means. That bit about Dany being bothered or puzzled by it.

I wonder, what her reaction will be after the reveal of Jon's parentage, BookDany would be happy but showDany is different. She might see him in some way a potential threat, I mean she worked hard just to step aside for anyone, even her own family.

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Posted (edited)

12 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Dany won't die until the very end. I'd be surprised if that happened before that and as you said dragon bonds with only one rider at the time. Drogon is the most dangerous dragon, so petting him is pretty good way of showing people what his Targaryen heritage means. That bit about Dany being bothered or puzzled by it.

I wonder, what her reaction will be after the reveal of Jon's parentage, BookDany would be happy but showDany is different. She might see him in some way a potential threat, I mean she worked hard just to step aside for anyone, even her own family.

TV Dany, just like Book Dany, was happy to play khaleesi to Drogo's khal because she was deeply in love with him. If Dany falls for Jon, and the leaks suggest that she does, I doubt his claim taking possible precedence over hers will give her any pause. She was already reconciling herself to the possibility of having to marry for political reasons in Season 6, so "having" to marry the man she loves to keep the throne because his claim technically supersedes hers, as well as finding out that she's not the last Targaryen after all, seems like a win-win situation for her. 

Nor would Dany necessarily see acknowledging Jon's claim as "stepping aside." She would probably envision that it would be some sort of co-rulership situation in practice.

Edited by Newstar

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6 hours ago, Newstar said:

TV Dany, just like Book Dany, was happy to play khaleesi to Drogo's khal because she was deeply in love with him. If Dany falls for Jon, and the leaks suggest that she does, I doubt his claim taking possible precedence over hers will give her any pause. She was already reconciling herself to the possibility of having to marry for political reasons in Season 6, so "having" to marry the man she loves to keep the throne because his claim technically supersedes hers, as well as finding out that she's not the last Targaryen after all, seems like a win-win situation for her. 

True but that was at the beginning of her journey. She had to play this role and wanted to. Dany had no such an ambitions as to rule Seven Kingdoms and she is a very different person now. She has powerful army, three dragons, advisors and everything she ever wanted bar family. On the show, they made her all about power and the iron throne, Aerys II being constantly brought before her. In the books she has far more connections to Rhaegar than to Aerys but you know this. In the books she wants to claim the iron throne for her family and for herself home and family. That is a bit dissapointing change betweeen these two mediums.

Political reasons or marriage is one thing but don't think she had in mind co-rulership in this political union. Just to forge an alliance and bring someone powerful to her side. Basically like a Queen's consort a that point.

Quote

Nor would Dany necessarily see acknowledging Jon's claim as "stepping aside." She would probably envision that it would be some sort of co-rulership situation in practice.

She might or she might will. I have no doubts about bookDany bit showDany is bigger mystery. She might view it as stepping aside but most of all it's my scepticism of they way they're writing her character on the show.

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@Newstar There is an interview with Emilia Clarke basically confirming what I thought. They didn't get her character at all. 

http://sstylemagazine.com/trending/iron-maiden-emilia-clarke-060910108

Quote

"I think that she has ultimately put aside her need for a man."

"She is so engaged and wrapped up in leading and being the queen and ruling and fullfilling her birth right that the idea of someone coming in and sharing the title is probably something she's not comfortable with."

Does this sound to you as if Dany accepting Jon or wanting to share power?

We know she has to slay a lie with Faegon in the books, Jon's name on the show might be Aegon, but it also can be different. I sure hope so. What if his reveal of his parentage won't be as we originally thought, happy event but rather moody, sad and grim?

Not to mention other leakers said that awayforthelads got emotions between Dany and Jon wrong and there is no romance and just a sex. It's interesting to think about it but sad at the same time as someone who likes the idea of Jon and Dany. Also that Ygritte is his one true love.

Dany is very different to what she's been before and show is really pushing her into are of being all about power, couple that with parallles of Aerys, reminding her and making this connection.

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@Lord Friendzone  not Newstar.  But I just read the interview, thanks for posting btw.  But it seems like Emilia was asked to speculate about Dany in S7 while already knowing what happens (lol she can't give an actual answer).  I doubt she would give away spoilers, so it seems like she just answered it from what she thinks Dany's mindset is at the end of S6 and early S7.  It basically says as much in the quote prior to the one you posted

Quote

She’s among the chosen few to have glimpsed the future of Westeros, having wrapped Thrones’ penultimate season in January, yet she’s as willing as the next fan to speculate over how Daenerys will weigh her own heart’s passion against the rigid call of royal duty.

Yet if spoilers are to be believed, we know that Dany's goals shift in the latter part of the season.  So her speculation is probably accurate but only in early part of the season. 

I never felt the reveal of Jon's parentage would be a happy event for him.  I've always expected him to be quite rattled after finding out that Ned isn't his father.

Can these "other leakers" actually be called leakers?  As far as I'm concerned none of them actually provided spoilers.  Most just seem to pick and choose what they like and dislike from Lads' spoilers, spin them and present them as spoilers.  At least cine went through the trouble of making storyboards lol.

It may come across that way, but it is her duty (as she knows it) to reinstate House Targaryen on the Iron Throne.  She also said this in the same interview btw, 

Quote

When asked what resonates with her about the way in which Daenerys wields her power, she says, “The marriage between her feminine sensitivity and her genuine desire to help those less capable of helping themselves. She’s fighting for people that don’t have rights. She’s got advice from everybody, and she just listens quietly, makes her own mind up, and is comfortable to stand next to the decision that she made. That kind of ability to not apologize.”

 

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3 hours ago, TheSlayerofLies said:

@Lord Friendzone  not Newstar.  But I just read the interview, thanks for posting btw.  But it seems like Emilia was asked to speculate about Dany in S7 while already knowing what happens (lol she can't give an actual answer).  I doubt she would give away spoilers, so it seems like she just answered it from what she thinks Dany's mindset is at the end of S6 and early S7.  It basically says as much in the quote prior to the one you posted

She can talk about her motivations in season 7 and it is just the way they've been writng her.

Quote

Yet if spoilers are to be believed, we know that Dany's goals shift in the latter part of the season.  So her speculation is probably accurate but only in early part of the season. 

Her mindset of not wanting to share could be meant even for latter stages, after the war. If she's alive.

Quote

I never felt the reveal of Jon's parentage would be a happy event for him.  I've always expected him to be quite rattled after finding out that Ned isn't his father.

Certainly not for Jon. It would be pretty bad for him to find out about his parentage. For Dany don't know but in theory it should be positive. You see, I don't have much faith in D&D.

Quote

Can these "other leakers" actually be called leakers?  As far as I'm concerned none of them actually provided spoilers.  Most just seem to pick and choose what they like and dislike from Lads' spoilers, spin them and present them as spoilers.  At least cine went through the trouble of making storyboards lol.

They can be but reliability is what will be questioned. Whoever is the first one and got it right so far, will always be more trusted by people in general because that peson was the first one to reveal it. Rest of them could twist it for thir own needs and wishes. People runs away with it.

Quote

It may come across that way, but it is her duty (as she knows it) to reinstate House Targaryen on the Iron Throne.  She also said this in the same interview btw, 

I agree and in her own mind she owes them to put House Targaryen back on the iron throne, after dealing with the white walkers.

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On 6/12/2017 at 4:22 PM, Newstar said:

Yes.

  Hide contents

Lads1 said that Sandor isn't going anywhere near Winterfell, especially since Brienne is there.

Lads2 relayed this exchange at the dragonpit:

"In the Dragonpit though Brienne and The Hound meet again, and Arya is mentioned then. The Hound asks her if she shouldn't be taking care of Arya, and Brienne replies that 'The only person needing protecting is the one who gets in her (Arya's) way' and this makes The Hound smile, and say that he doesn't plan to be the one to do that."

 

To keep things on-topic, I will say that I enjoy seeing theories being shot down or in the alternative confirmed the closer we get to the end of the show. I do think that the endgame, whatever it is, will be a lot more conventional and predictable than book readers would have guessed. At this point, Jon on the throne with Dany at his side and Tyrion as his Hand is looking more and more likely.

This is all how I also think it will play out, except I dont see Arya actually tying the knot with anyone, unless we go to 8 books.

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On 6/12/2017 at 5:18 PM, Newstar said:

TV Dany, just like Book Dany, was happy to play khaleesi to Drogo's khal because she was deeply in love with him. If Dany falls for Jon, and the leaks suggest that she does, I doubt his claim taking possible precedence over hers will give her any pause. She was already reconciling herself to the possibility of having to marry for political reasons in Season 6, so "having" to marry the man she loves to keep the throne because his claim technically supersedes hers, as well as finding out that she's not the last Targaryen after all, seems like a win-win situation for her. 

Nor would Dany necessarily see acknowledging Jon's claim as "stepping aside." She would probably envision that it would be some sort of co-rulership situation in practice.

Lol, As long as she gets to slap that ass while riding a dragon whenever she wants, I think all Dany's desires will be fulfilled.

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5 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

Lol, As long as she gets to slap that ass while riding a dragon whenever she wants, I think all Dany's desires will be fulfilled.

Dragons will be no longer after the war. It would be pretty unfair for Dany to have throne, kids, love with Jon and dragons. Basically everything she wanted and destroyed kingdoms or other people would not make it anymore grim or bitter.

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Posted (edited)

On 5/19/2017 at 3:10 PM, Newstar said:

I believed ASOIAF was once intended to be a fairly straightforward retelling of the Wars of the Roses before he started throwing all the dragons and such in. Even the published ASOIAF books have the WOTR tattooed all over them, which GRRM has cheerfully admitted, much like the Dance of the Dragons novella has the historical Anarchy tattooed all over the plot.

The WOTR were tragic, in that a lot of people died, but they ended happily enough in a marriage between a foreign conqueror raised in exile and a young noble with a claim to the throne. The marriage ended the strife between the warring houses and resulted in a prosperous reign, a decently happy union, and a new dynasty.

The LOTR books also ended among other things with a marriage between the new king and queen that, like the conclusion to the Wars of the Roses, resulted in a prosperous reign and a happy marriage.

GRRM was also inspired by the Memory, Sorrow and Thorn trilogy by Tad Williams, which also ended with the hero (Simon "Snowlock," LOL) conveniently discovering he is descended from royal blood, marrying the beautiful princess he loves and being crowned king.

To sum up, three of GRRM's main inspirations for ASOIAF--the LOTR books, the historical WOTR, and the Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series--all ended pretty much the same way.

Why would ASOIAF end any differently?

GRRM has said several times that he intends to stick with the same ending. He has also explained what he meant by "bittersweet," and it had everything to do with the ending of LOTR, which all the main characters survived, and nothing to do with epic Greek tragedy.

I like this. What if... The young claimant Dany marries is Gendry! Whaaat?

 

 

 

 

 

....

I jest.

Edited by Raeslewolhn

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On 7/5/2017 at 1:01 PM, Lord Friendzone said:

Dragons will be no longer after the war. It would be pretty unfair for Dany to have throne, kids, love with Jon and dragons. Basically everything she wanted and destroyed kingdoms or other people would not make it anymore grim or bitter.

I think they will, I think the whole saga is about restoring Targaryens and their dragons to the throne in time to defeat the white walkers and the long night.

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Forum down for 2 days!!!

I've wanted to get on and talk about it so much!!!!!

Euron and Cersei!!! Arya was awesome!!! and Dany finally touched back down in Westeros after 20+ years!!!! hallelujah

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MY AJT prediction for the show; 

Varys is there to help Tyrion learn about his mothers affair and coerce him into trying to ride Viserion, whom Tyrion will discover likes him very much and is willing to let him ride.

 

AT SOME POINT on the show, Dany will bring up the subject of needing some more Targaryens to ride her other 2 dragons, I mean it HAS to come up eventually!!

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On 7/19/2017 at 3:33 PM, Suzanna Stormborn said:

MY AJT prediction for the show; 

Varys is there to help Tyrion learn about his mothers affair and coerce him into trying to ride Viserion, whom Tyrion will discover likes him very much and is willing to let him ride.

 

AT SOME POINT on the show, Dany will bring up the subject of needing some more Targaryens to ride her other 2 dragons, I mean it HAS to come up eventually!!

Have you noticed - of course you have :rolleyes:, Tyrion's fascination with the dragon sculpture on the wall in the final scene? :P

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