NBA Playoffs 2017: Kawhi Did You Injure Me?

[DanteGabriel]

Just now, briantw said:

When teams meet with players from other teams, it always leaks, and is rarely even a secret.  When the Cavs met with Love, everyone knew about it.  Do you honestly think the Celtics could have met with George about the prospects of trading for him without anyone finding out about it in the modern NBA social media environment?

Or they could have asked his agent. Discreetly, on the phone. I don't know why you are fixating on some kind of face-to-face meeting.

You're making an argument that Ainge simply decided that Paul George was out of his league and didn't do the simplest fucking due diligence for his pursuit of a prime player.

[DunderMifflin]

Yeh deep playoff runs just aren't good enough for the bar the Celtics have set for themselves. Any big moves that result in less than a championship will be pretty much failures. Where a team that rarely even sees the postseason like my team the Hornets I'd probably give up the next two years draft picks for George because he's a proven player that will most likely get you into the playoffs for the next few years or however long u can keep him. That would be huge for low level franchises. Not so much for a team like the Celtics.

[briantw]

13 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Or they could have asked his agent. Discreetly, on the phone. I don't know why you are fixating on some kind of face-to-face meeting.

You're making an argument that Ainge simply decided that Paul George was out of his league and didn't do the simplest fucking due diligence for his pursuit of a prime player.

Actually, I'm making the argument that the trade talks never progressed to a point where the Celtics even had to talk to George.  

And are you telling me that if you're making a major trade for a guy with only one year left on his deal (much like when the Cavs traded for Love), you're not going to want to sit down with that guy specifically, not just chat with his agent on the phone, and go over your plan for the team going forward and how it involves him?  You're not going to want his own word, not just the word of his agent, that he's willing to buy in and stick around?  Please.  The Cavs met with Love personally for a reason, and it was to see if he'd give his word that he'd re-sign with them.  He did, and so they traded for him.

Anyway, it's all irrelevant now.  

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

It's nice to see some fire stoked on both sides here before the series even starts. This looks promising. I expect to see both of you posting during the game. 

[briantw]

5 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

It's nice to see some fire stoked on both sides here before the series even starts. This looks promising. I expect to see both of you posting during the game. 

I think this game could go one of two ways.  The Cavs win in a blowout, or the Celtics win so we can get that annual "is LeBron done" shit out of the way before the Cavs win the next four and everyone swallows their tongue. 

[DanteGabriel]

5 minutes ago, briantw said:

Actually, I'm making the argument that the trade talks never progressed to a point where the Celtics even had to talk to George.  

And are you telling me that if you're making a major trade for a guy with only one year left on his deal (much like when the Cavs traded for Love), you're not going to want to sit down with that guy specifically, not just chat with his agent on the phone, and go over your plan for the team going forward and how it involves him?  You're not going to want his own word, not just the word of his agent, that he's willing to buy in and stick around?  Please.  The Cavs met with Love personally for a reason, and it was to see if he'd give his word that he'd re-sign with them.  He did, and so they traded for him.

Anyway, it's all irrelevant now.  

It's easier for me to believe Danny Ainge got a realistic sense of how likely he was to re-sign George in the course of exploring the trade, than to believe he didn't. I don't care how NBA teams handle this shit, if they go to a day spa with their guy and hash terms out over exfoliating face treatments, or if they do it with a Skype call, or what. I don't know why you're choosing to die on this hill that the Celtics didn't do some basic investigation, but it's a dumb argument. Not "Isaiah Thomas is only a star because he gets 40 I mean 8.5 foul shots per game" dumb, but still a pretty dumb argument.

4 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

It's nice to see some fire stoked on both sides here before the series even starts. This looks promising. I expect to see both of you posting during the game. 

Eh. It's all house money at this point. I just want them to make the games competitive. I expect one victory in this series. Two seems ambitious.

[briantw]

Just now, DanteGabriel said:

Not "Isaiah Thomas is only a star because he gets 40 I mean 8.5 foul shots per game" dumb, but still a pretty dumb argument.

You really don't do well with sarcasm, do you?  

[DanteGabriel]

8 minutes ago, briantw said:

You really don't do well with sarcasm, do you?  

Not when used in support of a stupid fucking argument. It wasn't sarcasm anyway -- it was useless hyperbole. Unnecessary crap glommed on to build an untenable argument. But it's not even as dumb as your "Ainge over-valued his assets, as long as Indiana only wanted one pick for George" self-contradiction.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

20 minutes ago, briantw said:

You really don't do well with sarcasm, do you?  

 

10 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Not when used in support of a stupid fucking argument. It wasn't sarcasm anyway -- it was useless hyperbole. Unnecessary crap glommed on to build an untenable argument. But it's not even as dumb as your "Ainge over-valued his assets, as long as Indiana only wanted one pick for George" self-contradiction.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/f8d306007614d5c2bdddd86fdfbc94e0/tumblr_nna5xeJO681t9sksvo1_400.gif

 

/Bout time this thread hotted up.

[sperry]

Bawston sports are serious bidness.

[DanteGabriel]

51 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 

https://68.media.tumblr.com/f8d306007614d5c2bdddd86fdfbc94e0/tumblr_nna5xeJO681t9sksvo1_400.gif

 

/Bout time this thread hotted up.

Nah. Brian and I seem to agree on the major items to be debated tonight -- the Cavs are better and should win, and Isaiah Thomas is not a true franchise cornerstone. We differ on how important free throws are to Isaiah's status, and apparently on whether or not Danny Ainge can find his ass with two hands.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

It's nice to see some fire stoked on both sides here before the series even starts. This looks promising. I expect to see both of you posting during the game. 

Haha just you wait. You'll be fighting with one of them in a few weeks.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

36 minutes ago, sperry said:

Bawston sports are serious bidness.

BAWHSTON STRONG, kid! City of champions! 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, sperry said:

 

I wouldn't trade both #1s for George or Butler. I'd give this year's number 1, plus Crowder, plus maybe one of the random guys stashed overseas. I was suggesting both Brooklyn picks for Anthony Davis.

It's been awhile, but IIRC the likely trade scenarios that were floated about (although unconfirmed) were either both picks or one of the picks, Crowder and two of the three between Bradley, Smart and Brown. Both of those deals sound terrible to acquire George or Butler.

3 hours ago, sperry said:

The contract stuff is interesting. Right now, everything just bounced the right way for the Warriors:  Steph was hobbled by ankle injuries his first couple years, and teams were still scared of relying on a guy that tiny. Then their free agents lined up perfectly with the jump in cap, meaning they locked everyone into way below market contracts. After the 2018-2019 season, Curry, Durant and Thompson should all come up new contracts, which shouldnt' be feasible.  The problem is, both Durant and Curry are making $50+ million in endorsements. There was a lot of talk around Thunder fans that the Warriors ownership group was selling Durant on using their VC contacts to get him set up to invest in premium funds. The combination of those two things make the salaries they are receiving honestly just a secondary supplement to their main income. That's a big problem because the salary cap is designed with the idea that players are paid according to their value, and thus a team is limited in the number of elite players they can acquire and retain.  But if the salary income isn't really a thing and these guys start taking way below rate contracts, there's a big problem. They probably need a provision where if a when a player is a free agent, if one team offers a contract to a player, a minimum percentage of that number (like 85% or something), will automatically apply to the teams cap that ultimately signs him. That gives a little bit of wiggle room to offer a home town discount, but doesn't make a mockery of the salary cap.

Well said. It became pretty clear who these guys actually work for after LeBron, and to a lesser extent KD, signed those monster shoe deals. Quick question, could you eliminate the super teams by raising the vet minimums and tying it to things like MVPs, All-Starr appearances etc. and  eliminating the luxury tax by implementing a hard salary cap? 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Haha just you wait. You'll be fighting with one of them in a few weeks.

I live for this shit. Internet Toughguy Championships, straight ahead, Chief.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

As for Thomas, I kind of agree that he's not a star to build around. I am pretty sure I've said in these threads I don't think he can be the best or maybe even second-best player on a championship team. That's why I'm not worried about fitting Thomas and Fultz on the same team -- I don't think Thomas is part of the long term answer in Boston. I was pretty against the idea of the Celtics giving him a max contract, though these playoffs have given me doubt about it.

This is the key comment. I believe that if the Celtics thought adding George or Butler to the team would give them the edge over the Cavs, they'd have found a way to make the deal happen. Because they didn't, I'm guessing they don't think this current roster has what it takes, and that long term they're better off by hopefully getting two #1 picks and hitting on at least one of them with a Davis or KAT etc. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

I live for this shit. Internet Toughguy Championships, straight ahead, Chief.

Haha, and just like last year, I'm predicting a game one upset. Celtics win by 8. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

14 hours ago, Relic said:

Meanwhile KNicks slipping into the number 8 pick is also the least surprising development ever. 

I meant to ask you this before, but I hear a funny trade scenario and I'm wondering as a Knicks fan if you'd actually do it: 

In exchange for Melo, Porziņģis, Dolan and Jackson, you'd get Steve Ballmer.

@Fez, You're a Knicks fan too, you get in on this. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

12 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Nah. Brian and I seem to agree on the major items to be debated tonight -- the Cavs are better and should win, and Isaiah Thomas is not a true franchise cornerstone. We differ on how important free throws are to Isaiah's status, and apparently on whether or not Danny Ainge can find his ass with two hands.

Ah, come on! 2 hours to tip! No time to get all touchy-feely. Bring the fire, Dante! Torches and pitchforks! 

[sperry]

10 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

It's been awhile, but IIRC the likely trade scenarios that were floated about (although unconfirmed) were either both picks or one of the picks, Crowder and two of the three between Bradley, Smart and Brown. Both of those deals sound terrible to acquire George or Butler.

Well said. It became pretty clear who these guys actually work for after LeBron, and to a lesser extent KD, signed those monster shoe deals. Quick question, could you eliminate the super teams by raising the vet minimums and tying it to things like MVPs, All-Starr appearances etc. and  eliminating the luxury tax by implementing a hard salary cap? 

 

 

Okay, never would have done for both Brooklyn picks, that's ridiculous. I'd throw in Brown though.

 

Yeah, they work for the shoe companies. Underrated in the whole KD from OKC split were Nike and Jay Z's role in the whole deal. Still think if Durant had his druthers he would have stayed in OKC, it was his posse, Nike, and Jay Z who were all putting the pressure on him to leave.