Falcon2909

Why aren't there any Dinosaurs in Westeros or Essos?

38 posts in this topic

Sothoryos has them.

Why not the other 2 continents?

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Essos had dragons, which are basically fire-breathing dinosaurs.

Westeros might have had dinosaurs once, but then it had the Children and an Ice Age, which would do in any reptiles.

(The mere fact we are trying to reconcile real palaeontology with a world that has dragons, magic and ice zombies...???)

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In GRRM's Tuf Voyaging, advanced genetic engineers in the future re-create dinosaurs because they are awesome.

In A Song of Ice and Fire, Valyrians are said to have bred dragons from wyverns and fire wurms using some lost magic or technology.

It seems reasonable to assume that way back in the day before things went pear-shaped humanity had magic or technology capable of engineering extinct life forms.

It seems unlikely that all these events are happening on the "Planet Earth," late linguistic conversations notwithstanding, and there are myths of people coming down from the stars or going back up to the stars, so the people who live on this world probably came here from somewhere else a very long time ago.

Those people, when they came to this world, probably knew dinosaurs from the history of Earth, and knew they were awesome, and decided to use their magic or technology to breed dinosaurs.

But of course they didn't do it everywhere. They picked one place to do it, a place that would be awesome, and then people could come visit it and see the dinosaurs. But now of course they are all dead and their secrets are lost, probably struck down by hubris of some sort, if not dinosaur-related hubris precisely. They spent so much time thinking about whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.

That or creating dinosaurs was too costly to do everywhere, but in Southyros, they spared no expense.

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In Westeros they would have been hunted down by the Children and the Giants. If they existed at all.

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8 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

In Westeros they would have been hunted down by the Children and the Giants. If they existed at all.

Why would the children hunt them down to extinction? I thought they were peaceful creatures.

 

14 hours ago, GyantSpyder said:

In GRRM's Tuf Voyaging, advanced genetic engineers in the future re-create dinosaurs because they are awesome.

In A Song of Ice and Fire, Valyrians are said to have bred dragons from wyverns and fire wurms using some lost magic or technology.

It seems reasonable to assume that way back in the day before things went pear-shaped humanity had magic or technology capable of engineering extinct life forms.

It seems unlikely that all these events are happening on the "Planet Earth," late linguistic conversations notwithstanding, and there are myths of people coming down from the stars or going back up to the stars, so the people who live on this world probably came here from somewhere else a very long time ago.

Those people, when they came to this world, probably knew dinosaurs from the history of Earth, and knew they were awesome, and decided to use their magic or technology to breed dinosaurs.

But of course they didn't do it everywhere. They picked one place to do it, a place that would be awesome, and then people could come visit it and see the dinosaurs. But now of course they are all dead and their secrets are lost, probably struck down by hubris of some sort, if not dinosaur-related hubris precisely. They spent so much time thinking about whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.

That or creating dinosaurs was too costly to do everywhere, but in Southyros, they spared no expense.

Nice

23 hours ago, SeaWitch said:

Essos had dragons, which are basically fire-breathing dinosaurs.

Westeros might have had dinosaurs once, but then it had the Children and an Ice Age, which would do in any reptiles.

(The mere fact we are trying to reconcile real palaeontology with a world that has dragons, magic and ice zombies...???)

I think Essos had Firewyrms. There were no native dragons. Dragons were engineered by the Dawn Empire from Firewyrms and Wyverns.

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22 minutes ago, Falcon2909 said:

 

I think Essos had Firewyrms. There were no native dragons. Dragons were engineered by the Dawn Empire from Firewyrms and Wyverns.

Okay, so firewyrms and wyverns fill the 'bloody great lizard' niche in the ecology.

The world-building is very Old School pulp fantasy.  Lost empires of magitech. He's got Lovecraft, Vance and Howard in the blender, and when you have weird inbred albinos riding dragons, there is one outstanding example. If somebody's sword doesn't try eating people's souls at some point, I will be surprised.

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9 hours ago, Falcon2909 said:

Why would the children hunt them down to extinction? I thought they were peaceful creatures.

The Children have fought every race that entered Westeros, far from peaceful...

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It might be because their dinosaurs are dragons. Most of them are extinct apart from three with Dany.

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16 hours ago, Wolfgirly said:

It might be because their dinosaurs are dragons. Most of them are extinct apart from three with Dany.

I dont think Dinosaurs and Dragons are highly related.  

Dragons have been artificially made from Wyverns (You could say Wyverns are related to Dinosaurs)

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All of the continents seem to represent distinct biomes, perhaps even distinct "worlds" or timelines and the Plot behind the Plot seems to be one of invasion and conflict. Sothoryos and Yeen being different (older?) than Essos and Asshai which is different than Westeros. GRRM alone knows what kind of monstrous kangaroos and drop bears might lurk on Ulthos.

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7 minutes ago, hiemal said:

All of the continents seem to represent distinct biomes, perhaps even distinct "worlds" or timelines and the Plot behind the Plot seems to be one of invasion and conflict. Sothoryos and Yeen being different (older?) than Essos and Asshai which is different than Westeros. GRRM alone knows what kind of monstrous kangaroos and drop bears might lurk on Ulthos.

Giant albino penguins?  Sandworms?  Shoggoths? Bunyips?

(He could go full Burroughs. Dinosaurs and apemen and lost civilisations.)

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12 hours ago, SeaWitch said:

Giant albino penguins?  Sandworms?  Shoggoths? Bunyips?

(He could go full Burroughs. Dinosaurs and apemen and lost civilisations.)

I am terrified to think that the Sand Kings are hiding somewhere in Sothoryos.

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6 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

I am terrified to think that the Sand Kings are hiding somewhere in Sothoryos.

THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!!! 

(But seriously, Jon is the "sandking" and Dany is Simon Kress, complete with the sword coming from the sky and destroying castles) 

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But there are dinosaurs in Braavos, in the Sea King's menagerie:

Quote

Fun fact: The current sealord has a menagerie that has :

-Zorses (spotted horses)

-giraffes (great spotted things with necks as long as stilts)

-giant capybaras (hairy mouse pigs as big as cows)

-stinging manticores

-thylacine aka Tasmanian Tigers (tigers that their cubs in a pouch)

-Velociraptors (George probably based this on Jurassic Park, but Deinonychus is the correct species), (terrible walking lizards with scythes for claws), they are also mentioned in the Sothoryos section of TWOIAF as tattooed lizards that run down their preys and rip them apart with long curved claws on their hind legs)

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/6c84e7/what_do_we_know_about_the_sealords_of_bravos/

 

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3 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said:

But there are dinosaurs in Braavos, in the Sea King's menagerie:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/6c84e7/what_do_we_know_about_the_sealords_of_bravos/

 

They are imports, though. I think the OP is wondering why there's no evidence of big lizards on Westeros particularly, which seems to come down to hostile weather.  They do after all have mammoths and direwolves surviving.  It might be that bringing dragons north into a cooler climate also contributed to their eventual decline. People adapt to a wide range of climate, certain animals can't.  Magic aside, something essentially reptilian is not going to be happy in snow.

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11 hours ago, SeaWitch said:

They are imports, though. I think the OP is wondering why there's no evidence of big lizards on Westeros particularly, which seems to come down to hostile weather.  They do after all have mammoths and direwolves surviving.  It might be that bringing dragons north into a cooler climate also contributed to their eventual decline. People adapt to a wide range of climate, certain animals can't.  Magic aside, something essentially reptilian is not going to be happy in snow.

Very true about the OP's intention. I'd read about the Sea King's menagerie in a recent reddit thread and found the coincidence amusing. 

Very true about the hostile weather and reptiles. 

What we need is an archaeological expedition to Dorne to settle the matter.

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1 hour ago, Prof. Cecily said:

What we need is an archaeological expedition to Dorne to settle the matter.

Sounds like a fantastic idea to me also! 

I would love to see explorers visiting the Valyrian ruins and studying the worlds ancient past.

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8 minutes ago, Wolfgirly said:

Sounds like a fantastic idea to me also! 

I would love to see explorers visiting the Valyrian ruins and studying the worlds ancient past.

...and there's another spin-off.  Maester 'Skagos' Jones and Lady Lyanna Croft.

("We called the direwolf Skagos.")

Exploring ancient ruins of lost civilisations that ended in dramatic disaster? That won't go wrong.

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1 minute ago, SeaWitch said:

...and there's another spin-off.  Maester 'Skagos' Jones and Lady Lyanna Croft.

("We called the direwolf Skagos.")

Exploring ancient ruins of lost civilisations that ended in dramatic disaster? That won't go wrong.

Someone apparantly went there and the only person to return to Westeros.

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Just now, Wolfgirly said:

Someone apparantly went there and the only person to return to Westeros.

Euron? Yeah, I think he poked something with a stick. And it poked back.

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