U.S. Politics: Comey, Comey, Comey, Comey, Comey Chameleon

[Ice Queen]

1 minute ago, Zorral said:

He is a clear and present danger at all times to the nation's welfare at home and abroad and needs to go now.  His own people admit they're terrified of what he's going to say in those meetings during his 8-day trip abroad about the middle east situation(s).  He cannot focus.  He's worse than a baby.  He won't / can't do his job -- he won't even read reports so they stick his name in every sentence or so because he will read his own name.  He has to be fired because he can't do the job, not even minimally.

He's like Andrew Johnson who took over after Lincoln's assassination.  He was entirely incompetent for the job of POTUS too, plunging the government into chaos.  He would have been impeached if Southern supporters hadn't poured millions into bribing the votes -- which even so he avoided impeachment by a SINGLE vote.

 

I understand where you're coming from. I'm on the fence about this--one one hand, he really does need to go for our national security. He's going to get us all killed. He can't do the job, doesn't understand the job, and doesn't even want the job. He's a proto-fascist who has surrounded himself with the most incompetent cabinet in history. 

On the other hand, as a woman and a godless heathen, I can't think of any worse president than Pence, who still thinks girls are icky and that we're not smart enough to make our own decisions. He's the bigger danger on domestic issues. 

[Maithanet]

5 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said:

On the other hand, as a woman and a godless heathen, I can't think of any worse president than Pence, who still thinks girls are icky and that we're not smart enough to make our own decisions. He's the bigger danger on domestic issues. 

Come on, don't you think it would be kind of funny to have a photo op between Pence and Merkel with Pence's wife is just hanging out in the background? 

[Ice Queen]

1 minute ago, Maithanet said:

Come on, don't you think it would be kind of funny to have a photo op between Pence and Merkel with Pence's wife is just hanging out in the background? 

Or hiding in the bushes...

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

49 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

Just like Nixon, nothing about Trump's personality suggests he would step down for any other reason than impeachment and conviction were imminent.

Oh yeah, no doubt on that front. They are going to have to drag him, kicking and screaming out of office. I'd pay good money to watch that. 

[Zorral]

31 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said:

I understand where you're coming from. I'm on the fence about this--one one hand, he really does need to go for our national security. He's going to get us all killed. He can't do the job, doesn't understand the job, and doesn't even want the job. He's a proto-fascist who has surrounded himself with the most incompetent cabinet in history. 

On the other hand, as a woman and a godless heathen, I can't think of any worse president than Pence, who still thinks girls are icky and that we're not smart enough to make our own decisions. He's the bigger danger on domestic issues. 

That's why I'm convinced he needs to go NOW.  

Pence and all their ilks will be crippled by this, at least in D.C.  If he stays, they will continue along the lines they are continuing, even as the orange play-dough continues to melt down.

If he stays, Women, African Americans, and other opposition ilks will be ever more demoralized and do less and less, and less effectively.

Whereas, if he goes NOW as he must, this will pour huge amounts of needed energy into all the oppositional forces who are all necessary to keep this country from becoming a failed state run by crazy xtian white supremacist women haters.

Anyway, for the nonce must step away from the crazy in order to keep mine own life from being a failed state.  I try to limit myself to these matters for only a certain amount of time per day.  It's just that these last three days -- his self-inflicted crisis revelations keep on coming, every damned hour!  

[BloodRider]

If the RNC is smart, they should think hard about moving to impeach before '18.  There is a strong chance that the line of succession may change in that year, and that Trump may take enough people out to make a Dem prez.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

55 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

Just like Nixon, nothing about Trump's personality suggests he would step down for any other reason than impeachment and conviction were imminent.

I agree for the most part (although he might actually make them go through with), but the key difference is he wouldn't go quietly. Trump would spend the rest of his life attacking politicians from both parties. 

[Trebla]

Snowflake-in-Chief?

[Fez]

7 minutes ago, BloodRider said:

If the RNC is smart, they should think hard about moving to impeach before '18.  There is a strong chance that the line of succession may change in that year, and that Trump may take enough people out to make a Dem prez.

The problem for Republicans is that too much of their base still likes Trump a lot; and impeaching him without something simply undeniable or explainable (e.g. Trump molesting an underage boy on camera) will lead to their base turning on them. Or at the very least staying home and making a 2018 Democratic wave even bigger.

This calculus can change though; especially if the special elections in May and June go poorly enough for Republicans. And the base support may not be as rock-solid as it had been. Morning Consult, which has been one of the more favorable pollsters for Trump, has his approval rating among Republicans at 84 percent (which is about where its been in other polls, though pretty low for a President's own party) but his 'strongly approve' rating among Republicans has now fallen to 42 percent. And this poll was conducted over the weekend, before the latest news.

[KingintheNorth4]

16 minutes ago, Trebla said:

Snowflake-in-Chief?

Sigh, such a delicate little orange flower.

[Mexal]

1 hour ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

I think the best case scenario for Democrats is to let Trump stay on. The incompetence of this Administration is such that they wont pass any major legislation, Trump will continue to be a drag on all races till 2020, by which time the Democrats can gain back the House and some governorships, and carry the White House as well. If Pence becomes President, its quite possible the House races may stabilize themselves and the supermajority could easily continue till 2020

Of course, we could have nuclear Armageddon and our rivers could turn pitch black in the interim.....

Maybe this is the best scenario for the Democrats but it's terrible for the American people. The US loses credibility by the day and Trump is ruining relationships with our staunchest allies. Right now, I'm embarrassed to be an American and there hasn't been a time in my life where we have been in a worst situation. If he continues for 3.5 more years, I cannot even begin to imagine how bad  off this country will be.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

8 minutes ago, Fez said:

The problem for Republicans is that too much of their base still likes Trump a lot; and impeaching him without something simply undeniable or explainable (e.g. Trump molesting an underage boy on camera) will lead to their base turning on them. Or at the very least staying home and making a 2018 Democratic wave even bigger.

This calculus can change though; especially if the special elections in May and June go poorly enough for Republicans. And the base support may not be as rock-solid as it had been. Morning Consult, which has been one of the more favorable pollsters for Trump, has his approval rating among Republicans at 84 percent (which is about where its been in other polls, though pretty low for a President's own party) but his 'strongly approve' rating among Republicans has now fallen to 42 percent. And this poll was conducted over the weekend, before the latest news.

Yeah, I think his base stays solid.  I think that most of the base believes that the g-d liberal media is out to get him, and it is the g-d liberal media that is corrupt, and wants to put in place corrupt politicians who will steal their money and give it to the undeserving poor for abortions.  I'm only sort of kidding.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Yeah, I think his base stays solid.  I think that most of the base believes that the g-d liberal media is out to get him, and it is the g-d liberal media that is corrupt, and wants to put in place corrupt politicians who will steal their money and give it to the undeserving poor for abortions.  I'm only sort of kidding.

It's funny how often this comes up in regards to Trump, but I'm reminded again of the "both things can be true" axiom. His base is right. The "goddamn liberal media" is out to get him, but it turns out the reasons for that are about as legit as they come. 

[James Arryn]

Been off the grid a bit, catching up, appreciate any recap, but as I'm starting to sift it's getting to the point where there's virtually no Trump scenario that you can read and automatically dismiss as too far fetched.

[Kalbear]

From before:

Quote

Trump was 100% right about one thing - and that is that he could shoot someone and his folks would still support him.  Maybe things tighten at the margins enough that elected republicans stop supporting him, but there is going to be a sizeable portion of this country who will not believe anything other than that Trump is the victim of the liberal media and the Washington insiders and I'm not sure how we reconcile that.  

I say this with full seriousness: depending on who he shot Trump's ratings would go either down or up. It could be a total illegal execution and that would still be the case. If he shot Rosie O'Donnell I suspect he'd go way up. If he shot Trayvon Martin I know he would. 

3 minutes ago, Mexal said:

Maybe this is the best scenario for the Democrats but it's terrible for the American people. The US loses credibility by the day and Trump is ruining relationships with our staunchest allies. Right now, I'm embarrassed to be an American and there hasn't been a time in my life where we have been in a worst situation. If he continues for 3.5 more years, I cannot even begin to imagine how bad  off this country will be.

This assumes Republicans care about that. 

[James Arryn]

1 minute ago, Kalbear said:

From before:

I say this with full seriousness: depending on who he shot Trump's ratings would go either down or up. It could be a total illegal execution and that would still be the case. If he shot Rosie O'Donnell I suspect he'd go way up. If he shot Trayvon Martin I know he would. 

This assumes Republicans care about that. 

I've said for a while, once you get people believing the media is conspiring against their leaders, you're on a self-sustaining confirmation-bias loop. It's honestly IMO the thing that most threatens the US political structure, and almost always one of the foundations of banana republic type tenures.

[denstorebog]

2 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I say this with full seriousness: depending on who he shot Trump's ratings would go either down or up. It could be a total illegal execution and that would still be the case. If he shot Rosie O'Donnell I suspect he'd go way up.

You're not saying in full seriousness that if Trump shot Rosie O'Donnell, a huge number of voters who are currently not approving of him would start approving of him; even outnumbering than those who would be terrified that he did and turn from him.

You might argue that a lot of people would stick with him, but who exactly are these people that would make his ratings go way up?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but we have our first Republican Congressman talking about impeachment:

Quote

Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) on Wednesday said if the reports about Trump's pressure on Comey are true, it would merit impeachment.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/333803-first-republican-raises-impeachment-for-trump

[Fez]

Statement by Lisa Murkowski (its the image above the tweet, posting twitter links is weird)

She's first GOP senator to publicly support an independent prosecutor or commission; there are at least four GOP House members who've publicly come out for one as well.

Unsurprisingly, Justin Amash is furthest along so far. I disagree with him on just about all policy grounds, but I respect that he's generally kept to his principles (though he did end up voting for the AHCA, even though he released a statement explaining why he hated the bill).

 

[Kalbear]

Just now, James Arryn said:

Been off the grid a bit, catching up, appreciate any recap, but as I'm starting to sift it's getting to the point where there's virtually no Trump scenario that you can read and automatically dismiss as too far fetched.

To recap the big ones:

• Trump fired Comey
• Trump's press stated reason for firing Comey was Clinton investigation, which was shown to be a lie 48 hours later by Trump when he said that it was about the Russia investigation
• Trump gave Russians highly classified information about Israel's spy operations in ISIS, which remains so dangerous to reveal that news organizations that have it have been asked not to divulge it. 
• Trump's people lied first that it didn't happen, and then indicated it was fine.
• Comey has memos detailing Trump conversations with him, including one in which Trump asked Comey to let the investigation on Flynn go - which is a clear obstruction of justice.

Just now, James Arryn said:

I've said for a while, once you get people believing the media is conspiring against their leaders, you're on a self-sustaining confirmation-bias loop. It's honestly IMO the thing that most threatens the US political structure, and almost always one of the foundations of banana republic type tenures.

It's not about media though. In this case, there are genuinely a whole lot of Americans who would be thrilled to have Trump gun down a black male. 

 

Just now, denstorebog said:

You're not saying in full seriousness that if Trump shot Rosie O'Donnell, a huge number of voters who are currently not approving of him would start approving of him; even outnumbering than those who would be terrified that he did and turn from him.

You might argue that a lot of people would stick with him, but who exactly are these people that would make his ratings go way up?

I absolutely am. Most of his voters would consider him still someone they might vote for him and would stick around - those are his current people. A few on the fence would bail. But a whole bunch of others - liberals and conservatives - would be like 'this guy isn't so bad'.

That's America.