Football: Showdown Sunday

[Iskaral Pust]

4 hours ago, baxus said:

It's horrible to hear about Tiote.  

Without having any kind of data to back up this claim, I don't think that's the case. It's more likely that we'd hear about Tiote having a fatal heart attack than about some guy working at some factory.

As for the PED abuse, that could bring up an interesting discussion - what are people's takes on PED testing in football? I, for one, think it's laughable. For all the years of watching football, off the top of my head I can remember Maradona and Mutu getting busted for cocaine (with a decade and a half between their cases) and Rio Ferdinand being suspended for 8-9 months for not showing up for testing. There probably are some other cases, but I can't think of any at the moment. Are football players really such an ethical bunch that no one is using anything they shouldn't be using, is testing so poor (next to) no one is ever caught or are there some cover ups like "oh, he was busted for doping so we'll say he's injured for as long as his suspension lasts" (if that's the case, Sturridge must be juicing like crazy  )?

Focusing on PEDs, and ignoring recreational drugs, I'm always surprised by the very low rate of failed tests compared with other sports, especially considering the financial incentives.  Suspiciously low.  Even the NFL has more suspensions announced for PEDs.   Bizarrely, Sakho's false positive for the fat burner last season actually raised my impression of their testing diligence, if not their attention to the actual list of banned substances. 

Considering soccer players only lately improved their diets and reduced their alcohol in-take, perhaps PEDs wasn't the lowest hanging fruit so far. 

[Iskaral Pust]

3 hours ago, kairparavel said:

http://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/cardiovascular-disorders/sports-and-the-heart/sudden-cardiac-death-in-athletes

 

Thanks Kair for posting that.  So HCM sudden deaths most commonly occur between ages 20-40 during strenuous exertion, and some sports -- soccer, American football, basketball -- have a high observed incidence.  If you have HCM, any strenuous activity could trigger a heart attack but regular highly strenuous exercise (or work) increases the exposure to this risk. 

I had a time-bomb cardiac diagnosis a few years ago (I still have the condition but appear to be very low risk) so I'm morbidly interested in situations where robust, healthy people drop dead prematurely from heart attacks.  Mine shouldn't be triggered by exertion though. 

 

ETA - damn, a quick catch-up on Google says my condition, even asymptomatic, "contra-indicates" competitive sport.  I always thought my cardiologist was a bit blasé as he sent me packing. 

[MercenaryChef]

11 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport

Fuck, Tiote has collapsed and died in training in China.  I, like every other Newcastle fan will want to remember him for this

 

that goal. 

but how about that game vs man united where he made rooney look like a school boy?  he owned Wayne that day.  he was the man of the match.  reminisce with me.  

tiote never met a tackle he didn't like. what a loss.

[BigFatCoward]

i remember when there was talk after his first year or so of arsenal wanting him for about £25 million thinking it wasn't enough.  i wonder what happened to him.

anyway, has anyone ever seen a worse decision than this sending off for the england under 20's?

http://www.givemesport.com/1070491-englands-josh-onomah-receives-bizarre-red-card-at-under20-world-cup?autoplay=on&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Organic-Social&utm_campaign=Tribute-Pages-laika-III-1sted

[Melphis Amekia]

I haven't been in this thread for ages, or looked closely at Arsenal's results and squad in the same time(used to post as CorwinusJ). Apparently, Arsenal brought Sead Kolašinac from Schalke for free. I heard he's pretty good at left back, but were Gibbs and Monreal really that bad? Or is one of them going to be sold?

[Mexal]

2 hours ago, Melphis_Amekia said:

I haven't been in this thread for ages, or looked closely at Arsenal's results and squad in the same time(used to post as CorwinusJ). Apparently, Arsenal brought Sead Kolašinac from Schalke for free. I heard he's pretty good at left back, but were Gibbs and Monreal really that bad? Or is one of them going to be sold?

They weren't great. Arsenal could definitely use an upgrade at LB. I think they sell Gibbs.

[Iskaral Pust]

2 hours ago, Melphis_Amekia said:

I haven't been in this thread for ages, or looked closely at Arsenal's results and squad in the same time(used to post as CorwinusJ). Apparently, Arsenal brought Sead Kolašinac from Schalke for free. I heard he's pretty good at left back, but were Gibbs and Monreal really that bad? Or is one of them going to be sold?

Liverpool fans are pretty jealous about missing Kolasinac.  Monreal has been really consistent these past couple of years, although he had an indifferent patch this year (as did the whole team), he was never an elite-level FB to dominate the left wing by himself -- unlike prime Cole, Rose this season or Shaw when healthy -- plus he's 31 now. 

Gibbs seems to have regressed in recent years, or just failed to develop as hoped.

[polishgenius]

10 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

anyway, has anyone ever seen a worse decision than this sending off for the england under 20's?

http://www.givemesport.com/1070491-englands-josh-onomah-receives-bizarre-red-card-at-under20-world-cup?autoplay=on&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Organic-Social&utm_campaign=Tribute-Pages-laika-III-1sted

Well, there was that incident in Belgium a few years ago when a referee sent a player off for diving while he was in the process of being stretchered off with three dislocated verterbrae and serious concussion.

[Philokles]

4 hours ago, Melphis_Amekia said:

I haven't been in this thread for ages, or looked closely at Arsenal's results and squad in the same time(used to post as CorwinusJ). Apparently, Arsenal brought Sead Kolašinac from Schalke for free. I heard he's pretty good at left back, but were Gibbs and Monreal really that bad? Or is one of them going to be sold?

As the others said, it is more Monreal getting old than being bad. With one of the best left-backs around available on a free, it was an obvious signing given the prices quoted for similar ability players like Bertrand and Mendy.

[Mexal]

1 hour ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Liverpool fans are pretty jealous about missing Kolasinac.  Monreal has been really consistent these past couple of years, although he had an indifferent patch this year (as did the whole team), he was never an elite-level FB to dominate the left wing by himself -- unlike prime Cole, Rose this season or Shaw when healthy -- plus he's 31 now. 

Gibbs seems to have regressed in recent years, or just failed to develop as hoped.

More he failed to develop and he lost his spot to Monreal. Also, when was Shaw elite? Might not have watched enough United but I never saw him play that well.

[Melphis Amekia]

Ah, gotcha. I was always hoping for Gibbs to really break through but that hasn't happened. We'll see who they sell, though, since Gibbs is still a very useful backup, while Monreal is better(even with an indifferent year) but older. Will be an interesting market if they brought Kolašinac, though... or so I hope.

[Raja]

I can finally post again!

Re: Monreal; I'm pretty happy with him being the left sided CB of our back three. He's been excellent since our switch to the back 3 and will hopefully make that position his own. Kolasinac has played at left wing back before, hopefully he excels at that role.

Gibbs should get into a mid table/ higher PL team easily. He just needs a decent run of games.

[Mexal]

7 minutes ago, Raja said:

I can finally post again!

Re: Monreal; I'm pretty happy with him being the left sided CB of our back three. He's been excellent since our switch to the back 3 and will hopefully make that position his own. Kolasinac has played at left wing back before, hopefully he excels at that role.

Gibbs should get into a mid table/ higher PL team easily. He just needs a decent run of games.

Yea, I think Monreal has played well in a back three. I think he's not as good as a wing back and his form has been up and down this season as LB. Still a valuable player, just getting older.

[Mark Antony]

 I didnt even want to spend all that money on VVD personally but it's kinda funny the one time we supposedly beat Chelsea/City to a player Liverpool still fuck it up somehow.

[Iskaral Pust]

3 hours ago, Mark Antony said:

 

 I didnt even want to spend all that money on VVD personally but it's kinda funny the one time we supposedly beat Chelsea/City to a player Liverpool still fuck it up somehow.

I wonder what happened.  I'm skeptical that we were ever going to spend over 50m on a defender, but we've created a farcical situation here. 

Considering last summer saw Matip, Mane and Gini added to the first team, I had high hopes of our newfound competence in transfers.  

[baxus]

Given the state of our back line, he would've been a massive improvement. Still, I imagine that there are other defenders who fit that description at a much lower cost.

[AncalagonTheBlack]

What i want to know is what was Michael Edwards role in this ,if any? He's our sporting director right? WTF was he doing during this fiasco?

[Consigliere]

No clue what might have happened but I've read that Southampton had asked the FA to investigate an illegal approach for the player. Don't know if this was the issue as I haven't seen any article going into the specifics of what went wrong.

Might turn out to be a blessing in disguise. 60 million or whatever ridiculous price Southampton want doesn't seem worth it. I'm sure scouring the German and Spanish leagues can get you a similar quality player for half the price or less. What about Davinson Sanchez from Ajax? He did look impressive on the few occasions I saw him play.

[ljkeane]

23 minutes ago, AncalagonTheBlack said:

What i want to know is what was Michael Edwards role in this ,if any? He's our sporting director right? WTF was he doing during this fiasco?

By the sound of it he isn't going to be overly involved in football matters.

57 minutes ago, baxus said:

Given the state of our back line, he would've been a massive improvement. Still, I imagine that there are other defenders who fit that description at a much lower cost.

I'm not particularly convinced our defensive issues are primarily down to personal rather than the system. Clyne's a good defender, so's Matip and Lovren was good at Southampton too.

[baxus]

@ljkeane

System is definitely part of the problem, but I'm not sure it's primary reason for Liverpool's poor defensive performance. Clyne is a good defender and Matip had a pretty good first season in Premier league, but Lovren is a calamity waiting to happen and there is no way that's solely down to the system. Let's not forget that one of those three getting injured is all it takes to get the likes of Lucas at center back and Moreno anywhere, really.  And we've seen it happen in January, when Matip was injured and suspended. Add the fact that starting left back for the season was Milner (he did as good a job as could've been expected), and it's crystal clear that defensive part of the team is in dire need of rebuilding.