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Football: Showdown Sunday


AncalagonTheBlack

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4 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

I've never seen Belotti play, so can't say I'm enthused there. Morata leaves me with me with mixed feelings.

Didn't know either of these two was seriously linked with United, who btw have just signed a Swedish midfielder from Benfica, also an unknown for me.

Morata might be better fit for Chelsea and Lukaku for Man Utd. He's quick, good link up play, decent at headers, really good in finishing. Definitely for that price worthy and this might be reason for the lack of interest in Lukaku. The price of him is pretty high.

Victor Lindelof is a defender. Can play CB, LB and pretty versatile.

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I think people are just struggling to upscale expectations with the new TV deal in mind again. 60mil for a top-line defender between British clubs is about what you'd expect nowadays... If John Stones cost 50-odd last year, and the earnings have now jumped up again, it makes sense.


I've seen a few United fans being despondent over Zlatan and I don't get it. Don't get me wrong he was good and exceeded my worries but he wasn't amazing and if we can't get someone at least as good in then we've got bigger problems than just him leaving to worry about anyway. I'm not super-convinced by either Moratta or Belotti as I've mentioned before but I'd be surprised if either one of them didn't prove as good as Zlatan was this season.

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Yeah but you never really rated Zlatan as I saw throughout the season.

I thought he was comfortably the most important player in this United side, and I think they made a bad decision by not extending him. Obviously that concern can be ameliorated if they find another striker who can bring much ( or more) of what he does, but the thing is, Zlatan is a unique sort of player, you don't replace him with a Morata in my opinion. He's much more skilled and I thought it was obvious he had at least one more good season in him. Perhaps United just felt that he was never going to come back from this injury and in that case, I can see the reasoning. It almost has to be that because we heard midway through the season reports coming out of Old Trafford that he was going to be resigned for sure ( quoth Mourinho) because he's surprised the club by how fit he was. Not extending him now feels as if it is solely due to the injury which gives me a "this is going to be bad karma for the club" feel. He should have been re-signed, and then look towards other options as well. The money for that 1 or 2 year deal was surely there, so why the hell pass up on him?

The forward line needs bolstering. I like Rashford as most people do but we need more. Griezmann would be a great buy but if he is unlikely then the line of options looks quite bare. Aubemayang would please me as well.

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If he was our most important player (I go with Herrera but I can see the argument), it's only because he finished consistently. He really did very little else. You say Zlatan's uniquely skilled and while that may have been true throughout his career, throughout this season, when we needed someone to hold the ball up and bring others into play around the box and do anything basically skillful beyond just score, we stuck Fellaini alongside him.


You're right, the forward line needs bolstering anyway. And in that light, either we do so successfully and Zlatan becomes mostly irrelevant, or we don't in which case we're fucked anyway. Like, don't get me wrong, I'm not all like 'oh good job he's leaving', I just don't think it's a huge deal.

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Yes it is true that scoring is all he's done at United but I'm glad at least someone was putting the ball in the back of the net.

In phases where United just couldn't get a goal, he made them, and there were some critical winners among them. 

I agree that he showed other things previously in career that he didn't always get around to here. The thing that he did bring aside from goals is presence. He requires a lot of attention from opposing defenses, because he is so lethal and because he is so big. With him in it, other, faster players get more space. 

Anyway, I loved seeing him in a United shirt, I thought he was a great signing for the club and was afraid he'd leave in the summer. To now have the club cut the cord all on it's own is unexpected, and, well, shit.

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I think that not renewing Zlatan's contract does make sense. His contract expires at the end of this month and he was on massive wages. Renewing his contract would mean continuing to pay 300k/week for a player who is likely to miss at least half the season. There is also the issue of his age so there is a huge question mark over whether he could still produce at the highest level after such a serious injury. Also, Zlatan was always meant to be a stop-gap solution. We need to find longer term solutions up front sooner rather than later especially with Rooney being finished as well. On the plus side, he will probably complete his rehab at the club and can still be a mentor. He's brought an air of arrogance to United which we sorely needed. We were starting to have the mentality of a mid-table club.

I'm quite excited about the prospect of Morata (we'll see whether this deal actually gets done). He's strong, good in the air, good with ball at feet, good finisher and would certainly offer much more mobility and work rate than Zlatan. I think he would have had much more game time at Real had it not been for the excellent understanding between Ronaldo and Benzema. Those two work very well together which limited Morata's game-time. 

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1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

I think people are just struggling to upscale expectations with the new TV deal in mind again. 60mil for a top-line defender between British clubs is about what you'd expect nowadays... If John Stones cost 50-odd last year, and the earnings have now jumped up again, it makes sense.

Possibly true but if that's the case then why would you buy a player from a Premier League club unless there's no option? There are plenty of clubs out there who aren't on Premier League tv money and do need to sell. Yes, they'll probably still try to gouge Premier League teams but probably not for 'fuck you we don't need the money anyway pay us £70 million' kind of sums.

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4 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

Possibly true but if that's the case then why would you buy a player from a Premier League club unless there's no option? There are plenty of clubs out there who aren't on Premier League tv money and do need to sell. Yes, they'll probably still try to gouge Premier League teams but probably not for 'fuck you we don't need the money anyway pay us £70 million' kind of sums.

I think that Premier League clubs feel that there is less risk involved in signing a player who has already proven themselves capable of performing in the EPL. I'm quite confident that a player of similar quality to Van Dijk can be found outside the EPL for far less money. For instance, we've agreed a deal for Lindelof (who potentially could be a class act, has champions league experience and is a regular for Sweden) for a reported fee of €35m + €10m in add-ons not to mention getting Bailly for £30m. 

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24 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

Yes it is true that scoring is all he's done at United but I'm glad at least someone was putting the ball in the back of the net.

In phases where United just couldn't get a goal, he made them, and there were some critical winners among them. 

I agree that he showed other things previously in career that he didn't always get around to here. The thing that he did bring aside from goals is presence. He requires a lot of attention from opposing defenses, because he is so lethal and because he is so big. With him in it, other, faster players get more space.



These things are all true, but those are the sorts of things I don't think we should struggle replacing. What Consigliere says about arrogance is also true but (1) he's still only a poor shadow of the long-lost Cantona :P and (2) while harder to find, we can hopefuly replicate that as a team and bring in the odd player who has it (in that light Mauro Icardi would be a better target than Belotti, I suspect, but there's understandable reluctance by anyone to sign him). Pogba kinda has it.




And yeah, on the transfer thing: I feel we are seeing a lot of deals done abroad that might previously have been kept in-league (I think Everton are going to find less interest than they assume for Ross Barkley for example, because everyone can look abroad and pick a flash young midfielder up) but at the end of the day there's something to be said for being proven in the division, especially when, like Liverpool at the mo, you're looking for a centerpiece of your defence.

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The added premium now for PL experience just doesn't look worth it compared to buying top players from abroad.  I think it will give smaller PL clubs greater ability to retain players, until those players agitate for moves to teams competing for trophies.  For big PL teams, they'll be scouting top foreign players at everywhere but the handful of CL elite clubs.  The era of raiding Southampton might be over unless those players engineer the move.  Which definitely could happen. 

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You can trust Serbian national team fans not to miss an opportunity to show themselves as proper assholes.

Welsh fans came to Belgrade this weekend, donated some money to several orphanages in Belgrade, some of them even donated blood for the Partizan Belgrade's fan* that was shot in a fight (firefight seems to be the more accurate description, though) with Crvena Zvezda's fans*. Everyone who met Welsh fans in downtown Belgrade this weekend had nothing but kind words for the way they behaved. They basically were the poster boys for properly behaved away fans.

What did Serbian national team supporters do to return the favour? Attacked Welsh fans during the game and tried to steal some of their flags and banners. The worst part is that in every photo of the incident I've seen Welsh crowd is mostly made up of middle-aged men and older.

Obviously, I had nothing to do with what happened in the stadium last night but felt thoroughly ashamed when I read about it this morning. I know there are some Welsh people on this board, so if anyone on this board has been among those Welsh fans or knows someone who was, I'd like to offer my apologies for what happened.

* hooligans would be more fitting description, though

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So I read today that Everton are in "advanced talks" to sign Jordan Pickford. Sort of in two minds about that.

Seen from one side, he's a largely untested, young goalkeeper, with a hefty price tag (£25m plus add-ons). Sure, he was good this year, but come on: Richard Wright had a great year in the PL!

Seen from the other side, he's a young, promising goalkeeper, still developing but with PL experience, had a great season for a terrible team. He's not even approaching his prime as a GK and could, concievably, be a first choice shot-stopper for 10 years plus.

Basically, he's a gamble. But we need a keeper, as neither Robles nor Stekelenburg are first choice material. And he isn't just a long shot, he's got potential. Moderately pleased if it goes through.

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57 minutes ago, Rorshach said:

So I read today that Everton are in "advanced talks" to sign Jordan Pickford. Sort of in two minds about that.

Seen from one side, he's a largely untested, young goalkeeper, with a hefty price tag (£25m plus add-ons). Sure, he was good this year, but come on: Richard Wright had a great year in the PL!

Seen from the other side, he's a young, promising goalkeeper, still developing but with PL experience, had a great season for a terrible team. He's not even approaching his prime as a GK and could, concievably, be a first choice shot-stopper for 10 years plus.

Basically, he's a gamble. But we need a keeper, as neither Robles nor Stekelenburg are first choice material. And he isn't just a long shot, he's got potential. Moderately pleased if it goes through.

Goalies are always hard to judge. He looked good in a Sunderland side that couldn't defend for Toffee (lol), due to the amount of shots blasted at him. Whether that translates to a team higher up the league is hard to say. 

Everton are after a couple of pretty exciting signings, the Ajax lad Klaasen I've heard is very good. Should hopefully mean they ditch the over rated Barkley.

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Reportedly, we're after Sandro from somewhere in Spain, Michael Keane, Gylfi Sigurdsson and Davy Klaasen. Doesn't sound too shabby - but we would need cover at tne number 10 position. Currently, we have .. Barkley.

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Englands friendly against France really exposed how far behind the major nations we are. When they had a man sent off, we crumbled, didn't know what to do with the ball. The sheer tactical unawareness of the players is baffling for me. I've seen numerous people talk about the lack of intelligence of english players, it maybe showed here. 

The major problem however was the midfield. Ox and Alli are never going to be disciplined enough to protect the back line, leaving Dier on his own, and he looked tired and disinterested.

I'm very worried about what happens in a future tournament. Our football side reflects our country very well right now.

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Premier League fixtures for 2017/18 released

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Opening day fixtures:

Arsenal v Leicester City
Brighton and Hove Albion v Manchester City
Chelsea v Burnley
Crystal Palace v Huddersfield Town
Everton v Stoke City
Manchester United v West Ham United
Newcastle United v Tottenham Hotspur
Southampton v Swansea City
Watford v Liverpool
West Bromwich Albion v Bournemouth

 

First game and it's away again? Well shit.

And here are the first 5 matches featuring top 4 contenders:

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Saturday, 12 August, 2017

Arsenal v Leicester City
Brighton v Manchester City
Chelsea v Burnley
Manchester United v West Ham United
Newcastle United v Tottenham Hotspur
Watford v Liverpool

Saturday, 19 August, 2017
Liverpool v Crystal Palace
Manchester City v Everton
Stoke City v Arsenal
Swansea City v Manchester United
Tottenham Hotspur v Chelsea


Saturday, 26 August, 2017

AFC Bournemouth v Manchester City
Chelsea v Everton
Liverpool v Arsenal
Manchester United v Leicester City
Tottenham Hotspur v Burnley

Saturday, 9 September, 2017

Arsenal v AFC Bournemouth
Everton v Tottenham Hotspur
Leicester City v Chelsea
Manchester City v Liverpool
Stoke City v Manchester United

Saturday, 16 September, 2017
Chelsea v Arsenal
Liverpool v Burnley
Manchester United v Everton
Tottenham Hotspur v Swansea City
Watford v Manchester City

 

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Everton start at home vs Stoke, and I think we have to win that - as the following games are: City away, Chelsea away, Tottenham at home and United away.

We get something from that, it's going to be a good season.

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