Football: Showdown Sunday

[Mexal]

42 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

I fully expected Wenger to be kept on although I thought it would be a one year rolling contract. A new manager would have presumably expected a significant transfer kitty to overhaul the squad which would have excited the fans but not the owners. While not competing for the league is disappointing to fans, Wenger has been great for the owners - keeping Arsenal just competitive enough while not spending massive sums of money.

To be fair, they are spending quite a bit of money, mostly because they aren't selling. They can afford more, but it's not like they've been entirely cheap. They've overhauled their wage structure (and continuing to do so if any of the rumors about new contracts for Sanchez/Ozil are true), and they've spent 30 mil + on players each season (minus the Cech one). The issue comes from still relying on players like Ramsey, Chamberlain, Wilshere, Welbeck, Walcott, Giroud and Coquelin to be consistent and huge parts of the squad. I like a lot of these players and think they have some potential, but if they want to win the league, they need consistency and these players aren't going to give it to them on a game by game basis, whether it's due to how they play or the fact they get injured multiple times in a season.

Personally, I'd love an overhaul but it won't happen until Wenger leaves and if Wenger leaves, some of the players I'd love to keep will also end up going. I'm just ready for change, even if that means a rebuilding year or two. I'm pretty tired of the same shit we've seen the last 5 years even if I am happy with 3 FA cups.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

3 hours ago, Mark Antony said:

Tuchel out at Dortmund. 

Which was hardly a surprise anymore. Word has been out for over a month that there were rifts between Tuchel and the team, and between Tuchel and the board. Tuchel's successor will probably be Nice's Favre. (Reports indicate an agreement has been reached between Dortmund and Favre, Dortmund has yet to approach Nice).

Tuchel himself has been linked to Leverkusen. Interesting side note, Tuchel has won more points per game with Dortmund than any of his predecessors.

In other news, 1860 Munich is finally approaching relegation. Quite a career move for Ian Ayre. From Liverpool to that clown show with its Jordanian investor, who outspends most of the league rivals, uses up to three managers per season, and still manages to drop.

Edit. And the referee had to pause the game, because the homefans were busy trying to demolish the stadium. *popcorn*

[Iskaral Pust]

Tuchel seemed to be doing well at Dortmund but he lost my goodwill April of last year when he was so smug about a short-term improvement in form after Klopp's departure.  He got lots of top players back healthy, and the team had ended Klopp's last season very strongly (after struggling early due to injuries, departures and some apparent loss of focus) and just continued that into the new season -- but Tuchel tried to make it sound like he was some genius.  Klopp rebuilt that team/club from a much lower level, while Tuchel inherited a really strong team & squad with a habit of winning/challenging and then got the benefit of some really good transfer buys last summer too.

I don't think he did terribly in the Bayern-dominated Bundesliga, but I won't be attending any protest marches on his behalf either.

It's nice to see Huddersfield eke their way into the PL.  When Liverpool played them in a pre-season friendly it was clear that they were really well drilled and it would be interesting to see if it would work for them in the league.  But considering they finished 5th with negative goal difference (-2), the Bill Simmons/Grantland approach to sports prediction would say they are doomed next year.  They concede far too many against less potent attacks than the PL and score too few against less organized defenses than the PL.  But let's wait and see.  Burnley and Bournemouth both exceeded expectations.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Not really. Tuchel was not really beating his own drum. He is an absolute football expert, and very sharp with regards to match tactics. He did a very good job at Dortmund. It was simply were tough to compete with Guardiola's Bayern, they simply steamrolled through the league. Tuchel's big problem is his apparent lack in social skills.

Yes, Klopp took over when the club was at a lower position, but they managed to get to the cup final (and back then that was enough to qualify for an international competition). Aut there was also some real talent coming through their academy at that time. Klopp did very well to get the maximum out of that squad nonetheless, and doing better than Thomas Doll as a manager is really not a particularly high bar.

Pressers with Tuchel are a bit like Guardiola's, just that Tuchel is a lot less charming. After Weigl's injury everybody expected Sahin to play (the most similar player), instead he was axed from the matchday squad without a comment; which surprised and upset quite a few of the senior players. E.g. Marcel Schmelzer made a comment that Sahin did not deserve that treatment in an interview after the final. And Tuchel had apparently done stuff like that before. Then he also accused Dortmund chairman Watzke of lieing with regards to the new match date for the Monaco game (Tuchel: "Nobody talked to me about it." Watzke: "We talked with the people involved (incl. Tuchel)."

And 1860 dropped. The last 10 minutes involved the Regensburg keeper disposing seat shells from his box, which were thrown from the terrace behind his goal.

[polishgenius]

A lot less charming than Guardiola? How does he even function?

[Iskaral Pust]

3 hours ago, Notone said:

Not really. Tuchel was not really beating his own drum.

In the lead-up to & following the Liverpool vs. Dortmund clash in the EL last year, he was very smugly beating his own drum and Mikhitaryan was accompanying on bass.  I can understand that Tuchel might have felt a need to step out from his predecessor's shadow, but he sounded too like Rodgers at that point.

[Philokles]

Not sure Tuchel ever stood a chance with the old guard of Klopp loyalists. None of his issues were with the new guys and his relationship with Bartra, Dembele, etc. looked outrightly positive.

Ian Ayre's already gone from 1860 Munich. Apparently even before they played Regensburg this evening. One consequence of their relegation is that they will be leaving the Allianz to head back to the Grünwalder Stadion, leaving Bayern as the sole occupant. From what I've heard that will be a silver lining to the fans.

[Mark Antony]

Liverpool signed Chelsea product Dominic Solanke. I don't get excited for signings for the future anymore but thought is was interesting. 

Begovic to Bournemouth as well.

[Consigliere]

Very good signing for Bournemouth. Didn't watch every Bournemouth game but those I did see, Boruc was consistently a liability. Begovic should be a huge upgrade.

[Rorshach]

Begovic is an upgrade, but I'm unsure whether he's a huge upgrade. Thing with Boruc is, he's inconsistent. He can be great - his top game is clearly above Begovic's. However, he has never been able to play at a stable high level, and he'll sprinkle his game with howlers. 

Begovic doesn't do howlers, but he's not a match winner either. Solid and competent.

[Consigliere]

Boruc is a good shot-stopper (probably better than Begovic) but his decision making is terrible. Solid, dependable, knowing-what-you're-going-to-get type GK is exactly what Bournemouth need and could potentially make a huge difference to them. That sort of dependability in a GK can filter through to the rest of the defence as well whereas with Boruc, the impression is that he doesn't inspire much confidence with his defence due to his unpredictability. Signing Begovic is a very good first step for Bournemouth in addressing their achilles heel.

[AncalagonTheBlack]

The Echo reporting that Mohamed Salah's agent posted a pic of his boarding pass to London on his Instragam.

Quote

Ramy Abbas, who represents the former Chelsea man, published a photograph on Instagram of his flight ticket heading for the UK..He also followed the official Twitter account of Liverpool, leaving supporters debating whether Abbas’ trip is business and related to Salah’s future.

 

 

Europe’s top football clubs increase value by €3bn:

KPMG's world's 15 most valuable football clubs:

1. Manchester United (€3.004bn)
2. Real Madrid (€2.895bn)
3. Barcelona (€2.688bn)
4. Bayern Munich (€2.367bn)
5. Manchester City (€1.909bn)
6. Arsenal (€1.882bn)
7. Chelsea (€1.524bn)
8. Liverpool (€1.260bn)
9. Juventus (€1.158bn)
10. Tottenham Hotspur (€978m)
11. Paris Saint-Germain (€948m)
12. Borussia Dortmund (€917m)
13. Atletico Madrid (€771m)
14. Schalke (€663m)
15. AC Milan (€504m)

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

18 hours ago, Horse of Kent said:

Ian Ayre's already gone from 1860 Munich. Apparently even before they played Regensburg this evening. One consequence of their relegation is that they will be leaving the Allianz to head back to the Grünwalder Stadion, leaving Bayern as the sole occupant. From what I've heard that will be a silver lining to the fans.

Yes. It's really funny to see the wheels coming off that clown car.

The idea, that they could easily move back into their old stadium is a bit of a pipedream imho, but who knows. Anyway, I guess I should elaborate a bit on that point. Cautionary note. Yes, it's gonna be one of those lenghty posts.

Let's get back a bit into the "Lions History". Historically speaking 1860 Munich is the club with the longer history than Bayern. 1860 was a founding member of the Bundesliga and their goalkeeper was a member of the World Cup winning team in 1954. Bayern promoted later to the Bundesliga with a bunch of talented players like Beckenbauer (who originally was a member of the 1860 junior teams), Gerd Müller, Sepp Maier etc. Bayern went on to build a dynasty with those players, while 1860 dropped at some point into obscurity of lower class football. In the midnineties 1860 reemerged on the scene and even managed to promote back into the Bundesliga.

1860 being the more traditional working class club, used that image quite a bit, that they are the real club for Munich citizens and that they are not the rich Bayern. That underdog theme was/is somewhat important to the 1860, so keep that in mind for a moment. Eventually they left their old (and relatively small arena (Stadion an der Grünwalder Straße or in short Grünwald)) and shared an arena with Bayern for their homegames (the old Olympiastadion).

In the run up for the World Cup 2006, Germany needed a bunch of new stadiums, so Bayern grasped that opportunity and enlisted the help of 1860 and gathered signatures for a peitition, that the two clubs in cooperation with the city of Munich would build a new stadium. The stadium size was World Cup size and more suited for Bayern needs, than that of the small working class David of the city, and the calculation for 1860 to make that thing run somewhat profitable required them to at least play Bundesliga, preferably with an odd European appearence now and then. There's also that nice story, that the son of the 1860 chairman Wildmoser was caught with his fingers in the cookie jar (embezzelment) during the construction phase of the new Arena and was voncited later on.

You probably can guess what happened next. Of course they dropped (with a missed penalty in their last game iirc). And they failed to win the promotion straight away, so the interests for that staidum loan were bringing them down at a very high speed. Eventually, they were at brink of collapse, and Bayern bought them out. Since then the Bayern are sole owners, and 1860 were mere tennants in that Stadium. Of course that was merely kicking down the can while moving debt from one pocket to the next. Especially the catering deal with Bayern was something they bitched about regularly. Their last asset was/is their strong academy, which reliably produced enough quality for them to sell in order to keep on breathing. With different streams in the fan scene, and elected club officials who were acting like headless chickens.

Enter the Jordanian Investor Hassan Ismaik. Apparently it was en vogue for super rich guys from the middle east to buy a football club, so he ended up with that clusterfuck of a club a few years ago. He pumped money into the club, and in return wanted to call the shots, while they hoped to get some Abramovich like figure who simply writes the cheques and just shows up now and then. So it was music in their ears, when he said, he wants to promote asap and watch his club in the Champion's League in the near future. Now recall what I said earlier about the self-image of 1860 and its supporters, the underdogs and working class club. And I guess you can see how well that was going to work, sufficient to say it produced some real comedy gold over the years. E.g. Ismaik wanting to bring in Sven-Göran Eriksson as director of football, with the club officials prefering other options more familar with the German football etc. It took a few temper tantrums and threats to pull the plug, but eventually Ismaik got his wish with a more obedient set of club officials. Their supporters have become somewhat of an annoying joke, whose sole identity seems to be based on the fact, that they are not Bayern, and their mantra being, we want/need to get out of the Arena at all costs, with a split over whether they should somehow kick out Ismaik, too. I have lost track of how many people were employed as manager and director of football there during the last 2 seasons alone. My guess would be 6 managers and 3 Directors of Football (could have also been 4). Including a former player with connection to Spain, who brought in some players from Bacelona's reserve team, who were at no point suited to play on that level, but became top earner's at the club nonetheless. Oh, and despite all their financial woes, they still had the third highest budget this season (only Stuttgart and Hannover spent more).

Oh, of course there was also some comedy gold this season. I give a quick run down, so you get a feeling for that. They have the third highest player budget, with a lot of former Bundesliga players, one player was deemed not good enough once Vitor Pereira took over. The comedy highlight was that said player was denied access to the team's christmas party. Did I mention the player in question was/is Karim Matmour, whom they signed at the start of the season. Then we had TSV removing press credentials from papers, which were reporting too negatively on the club and its investor for Ismaik's liking. What else, yeah, our club officials were asked to leave their seats when they cheered too excessively our game winning goal in the proximity of Ismaik. Oh, Ismasik also publicly demanded an apology from referee Bibiana Steinhaus after the game. Before yesterday'S game also one of the players tweeted something along the line, that the club will win promotion next year. Also, on monday Ismaik vented off again, how he was deceived by bad advisors, that they were wasting his money [he has a point] and how he intends to do a thorough inspection, and no stone will be left unturned. Pretty much threatening to fire the guys, he put in charge. And the fans? Well, a not so minor group is regularly chanting, screw the sheikh, screw his money, freedom for Munich's Lions. Did I mention, that Ismaik hired at some point a PR firm to help him win over supporters. And the he is as open for criticism as Donald Trump?

Now, back to why I think Grünwald is not a realistic option for 1860, at least not if they get a license to play next year in Liga 3. Stadium does atm not meet the requirements for that league. They would need to renovate it, or get help from the city of Munich to get it up to the standards. And also, the Stadion an der Grünwalder Strasse is afaik in a residential area, so there they also need an exemption with regards to noise regulations. And I don't think the residents will be too fond of 10.000 noisy drunken football fans every two weeks stomping through the area. If Ismaik is tired of sinking money in that bottomless pit, 1860 won't be able to get a playing license for that league. No, idea how deep they will drop then.

So really, there's zero sympathy on my part for them.

[Rorshach]

17 hours ago, Consigliere said:

Boruc is a good shot-stopper (probably better than Begovic) but his decision making is terrible. Solid, dependable, knowing-what-you're-going-to-get type GK is exactly what Bournemouth need and could potentially make a huge difference to them. That sort of dependability in a GK can filter through to the rest of the defence as well whereas with Boruc, the impression is that he doesn't inspire much confidence with his defence due to his unpredictability. Signing Begovic is a very good first step for Bournemouth in addressing their achilles heel.

I'm not in complete disagreement with you, let's start there. 

Where I'm uncertain here is the "what Bournemouth needs"-category. As long as their defense and set-up is as dodgy as it is, they will allow lots of shots. So a good shot-stopper is essential (like Tom Heaton at Burnley, only he's better at other parts of the game as well). A solid keeper just won't - by himself - improve Bournemouth's fortunes, because he'll be facing more shots that he's used to. And that could be a problem - he'll be letting in shots that Boruc would have saved.

I think Begovic will be better - if Bournemouth improve their defense as well. Otherwise, it's a toss-up for me.

[Consigliere]

3 hours ago, Rorshach said:

I'm not in complete disagreement with you, let's start there. 

Where I'm uncertain here is the "what Bournemouth needs"-category. As long as their defense and set-up is as dodgy as it is, they will allow lots of shots. So a good shot-stopper is essential (like Tom Heaton at Burnley, only he's better at other parts of the game as well). A solid keeper just won't - by himself - improve Bournemouth's fortunes, because he'll be facing more shots that he's used to. And that could be a problem - he'll be letting in shots that Boruc would have saved.

I think Begovic will be better - if Bournemouth improve their defense as well. Otherwise, it's a toss-up for me.

Boruc is the better shot-stopper but not that much better than Begovic. I think we are in agreement that Begovic is overall the better keeper but does not solve the defensive issues by himself. Bournemouth will need to make further improvements to their defence - mainly better organisation with one or two additions. A decent holding midfielder would help too. The trick for Bournemouth would be finding a way to be better organized defensively without losing their attacking flair.

[Mark Antony]

City have signed Benficas GK Ederson for 40m€. Guess thats it for Bravo/Hart. 

Also City seem to be beating everyone for Mendy. Wouldn't shock me if they spent like 300m this summer  

[Consigliere]

At least City aren't twiddling their thumbs. Two major signings already. Next up is the fullback positions where they are probably going to get hammered on transfer fees but at least they are looking to get their business done as quickly as possible.

[polishgenius]

4 hours ago, Consigliere said:

Boruc is the better shot-stopper but not that much better than Begovic. I think we are in agreement that Begovic is overall the better keeper but does not solve the defensive issues by himself. Bournemouth will need to make further improvements to their defence - mainly better organisation with one or two additions. A decent holding midfielder would help too. The trick for Bournemouth would be finding a way to be better organized defensively without losing their attacking flair.

On this, it's also worth noting that a really good keeper is a key part of organising his defence, and also that Boruc's erraticism is a part of why his defence is so chaotic because they never know what he's going to do. Even if he's not organising them himself, a defence is always more coherent when they trust their keeper.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

A bunch of details have emerged why Ayre resigned from his position at 1860. And it's again pretty absurd what happened at that club behind the scenes. I know the scousers are not remembering Ayre that fondly, but this mess was really not his doing, and he acted in quite a decent manner.

Small introduction on how investors in German football work, to provide some context (it differs a bit from the British and American model). An investor cannot legally buy a football club itself. However to make external money a possibility for German clubs, the Football League came up with that 50+1 model. It basically works like that, the professional football squad gets outsourced into a different legal entity (Football Inc. if you will), but the majority of the share, must remain in the hands of the parent club (50%+1 share so to speak - there are a few exceptions to it, but they do not matter here), that should in theory prevent what happened at 1860.

Anyway, without further ado. Some correspondence has surfaced, in which 1860 Chairman Castalette, Ayre and Ismaik communicated through the lawyers with each other - yes, let that one sink in for a moment; the investor, the club chairman and Ayre did not communicate in person or via snap chat, they used their lawyers. 1860's director of finances approached Ismaik when the 1860 football inc will receive the 23 milion € needed for a new license for the 2. Bundesliga. A day later 1860 received a letter from Ismaik's lawyer for Ayre and Castalette, which said "As I stated in my WhatsApp message to the members of the board from the 9th of February, requires any further financial commitment on my part, that the club fully commits to solve the numerous problems that have hindered the progress of the Football Inc. and the club, especially since the start of my investment." The letter contained six demands. One of them was to partially abolish the decisionnal authority of the club over the CEO of the Football inc. Which would be a violation of the rules of the Football League. Another demand was to give full control over the junior footballers to the Football Inc.He furthermore demanded that the u18 squad should be fully incorporated into Football inc, which is especially absurd, since this had been the case for years anyway. Another demand was to shift more power over to the board of the Football inc, where he holds the majority and is its chairman.

The club responded by mail to ismaik, which read they are basically willing to meet his demands, but they would require the approval of the Football League and the cooperation of the Football Inc. Ismaik responded that same day: "I am happy you regard my demands as measured and accptable. However I must point out, while you are signalling a general willingness to accept my demands, that you are not explicitly expressing your consent."

In the end Ayre felt forced to resign before the final match, because he assumed that 1860 couldn't be saved, even if they managed to win that game. Because Ismaik finished his letter like this: "Please refrain from contacting me again, unless you have the confirmation that all of my demands are met in time."

Now take moment and let that sink in. Ismaik is basically blackmailing the club to meet his demands, or he would pull the plug. Now what were Ayre and Castalette supposed to do? Show up at the game, and cheer and celebrate, if they had won, knowing that Ismaik would not transfer the money required to obtain the license. Ayre reportedly considered it immoral to advertize for a game, that would put the crowd into the situation of cheering, when the result itself was pretty meaningless, without telling them. Especially since it's somewhat unclear who will get the money from that game. Apparently some players have not been paid their wages.

As I said earlier, without another payment from Ismaik 1860 will not be able to obtain a license for the 3. Liga, and reports differ somewhat to the amount the 1860 football inc needs (reports vary from ~9m to up to 11m €)

Meanwhile Ismaik announced on Facebook, that he isn't going to quit. He asks all the Lions' fans to join him to reasonably and responsibly rebuild the club [check his list of demands above], as the club is currently so divided by power struggles and internal problems.

 

[Philokles]

Where next for 1860 if they can't get a license? The regional leagues?

Presumably the amount needed for license varies between teams? For the smaller 3. Liga clubs €10m must be far more than they could afford.