Rothfuss XIII: Fan Angst Live Stream

[Darth Richard II]

4 minutes ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

He's also a sexist douche. So, no. I will not give him a pass.

Yeah I forgot about some of that stuff. There's no excuse for that shit.

[Gone and Quite Forgotten]

16 minutes ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

He's also a sexist douche. So, no. I will not give him a pass.

A pass in what way though? I just don't get in what context he needs to be "excused", as REG put it. People either like him or they don't, I don't see the point in debating whether a mental condition makes him more or less likable. Have people come forward about being harassed by him or something? I mean:

34 minutes ago, RedEyedGhost said:

No it should not. But I also don't believe that mental illness excuses people from killing children as they shoot up a school with an assault rifle. 

Is this really an appropriate example to bring up within the context of what we're talking about?

[Darth Richard II]

Yeah I kind of lost the topic, not sure what we are talking about now.

[jurble]

We're discussing whether mental illness can excuse bad behavior.

And on that topic, my position is blah blah determinism, blah blah no free will anyway, blah blah no such thing as fault, kill all humans, etc etc.

[Spaßvogel]

I think I"m just soured on the whole thing.  It's even bled over into other media.  I now despise Lin Manuel Miranda for his connection to the TV adaptation. 

[Gone and Quite Forgotten]

Idk, I feel like this has kind of devolved into an out an out spite thread.

"Pat's father is dying."
"I still don't like him."

"So he has this mental condition."
"That doesn't excuse him!"

"Lin-Manuel Miranda is attached to the TV project."
"Now I don't like him by association!"

I agree the man is kind of an asshole, but he's not Harvey Weinstein. I don't really understand the levels of animosity that crop up in this thread.

[Argonath Diver]

.   . ,

Well, it's a forum to discuss literature, presumably for fantasy fans. So I don't think it's surprising to see vitriol toward one of the current major genre authors who has been, well, a bit of a prick (to most interpretations here, I know some people love the guy). Every online community is going to have their punching bags, here is is Goodkind, then I guess Kvothfuss is a distant second.

[Gone and Quite Forgotten]

1 hour ago, Argonath Diver said:

Every online community is going to have their punching bags, here is is Goodkind, then I guess Kvothfuss is a distant second.

That's true, but I imagine you can call up some pretty toxic circumstances in which certain online communities have gotten really out of hand with their obsessive dislike over a public figure or their work. I mean, yeah, the Twilight books were bad, but they weren't the pogrom against art that the internet turned them into.

I'm not saying any of the regular sentiments in this thread cross a line per se, but some of them aren't exactly healthy either.

[Lily Valley]

16 hours ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

He's also a sexist douche. So, no. I will not give him a pass.

It's this bit here^^^.   I personally crusaded all over the internet in defense of Denna who might get even more hate than Sansa as far as fictional characters go.  I had a great deal of hope that he'd be doing a much better characterization of a young woman who was in sex work seen through the eyes of a young man who was in love with her.  You know, hoping it wouldn't go the disillusionment or savior complex route.  Then Rothfuss goes and makes that crack about the girl next door turned stripper.  Like the girl ruined something of HIS (his memory of her) by changing.  That's the kind of logic that says women don't even have the right to themselves lest it take something from the men who are busy admiring their own version of women.  I found it particularly soul-crushing.

I do see my hypocrisy here.  Rothfuss can go be as big a sexist as he wants I suppose and I shouldn't let it bother me, but it does nerds.  It does. 

[Darth Richard II]

I think what gets to people on this board is the arrogance combined with his treatment of his fans. That and the constant social media presence he rampped up, where he's arrogant and mean to his fans. Before he started streaming all the time I think there was a lot less hate.

With regards to the sexist thing, I totally forgot about the stripper comment. I was thinking of the AMA where he went into details about all his characters various breast sizes.

Oh and regarding Twilight, I can only speak for me, but it pissed me off because it was 4 books of thinly veiled Mormon preaching.

[Gone and Quite Forgotten]

5 hours ago, Lily Valley said:

I do see my hypocrisy here.  Rothfuss can go be as big a sexist as he wants I suppose and I shouldn't let it bother me, but it does nerds.  It does. 

I don't think it's hypocritical to be bothered by that kind of thing at all. We might all say sexist things sometimes, often unintentionally, but when you're a public figure sending a sexist message out there as relating to your work, it does kind of step on the message of that work. So yeah, he should be accountable for that kind of thing.

But comparing him or anything relating to him with a school shooting, even by implication, is kind of excessive. And when we start playing Google-Psychologist regarding mental conditions that he has and how it might relate to his general attitude and work, it starts to kind of feel like we're digging into the person more than the public figure, and not in a positive way.

EDIT: At this point I am starting to realize how preachy and sanctimonious I sound, so I will drop it now.

[Darth Richard II]

Well he talks up about what a great and amazing feminists he is all the time too, so I imagine that rankles.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

6 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Well he talks up about what a great and amazing feminists he is all the time too, so I imagine that rankles.

Quite clearly... he’s not.

[red snow]

The guy's consistent in his backtracking anyhow. Maybe he's working on the next trilogy so that when he finishes this one he can claim it is already done?

[Ninefingers]

17 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

I think what gets to people on this board is the arrogance combined with his treatment of his fans. That and the constant social media presence he rampped up, where he's arrogant and mean to his fans. Before he started streaming all the time I think there was a lot less hate.

With regards to the sexist thing, I totally forgot about the stripper comment. I was thinking of the AMA where he went into details about all his characters various breast sizes.

Oh and regarding Twilight, I can only speak for me, but it pissed me off because it was 4 books of thinly veiled Mormon preaching.

Having thought about it, I think what rankles me the most is the "woe is me" fishing for complements he does. That's not to say rich and famous people can't have problems - of course they can. But there are lots of people out there who have very similar problems who don't have the benefit of a loving family, financial means, tons of adoring fans, etc. I find his public complaints about how tough he has it...unbecoming, and somewhat of an affront to the people who have it much tougher and lack the advantages he has.

As my grandmother frequently said, it's important to take a break while feeling sorry for yourself to count your blessings.

PS - If I have to hear him say once more about how much happier he was when he had less responsibilities, I'm going to scream. HE IS THE PERSON WHO IS ADDING ALL OF THESE EXTRA THINGS TO HIS PLATE. Stop choosing to add responsibilities when you've determined it makes you unhappy, dipshit.

[Gone and Quite Forgotten]

Surely you're not trying to say he's oblivious to the fact that other people have it worse though. He does seem to spend quite a bit of time and energy raising money to help people that are less fortunate than himself.

And tbf, GRRM complains quite often as well about the added pressure of fame and success, as have many other authors who made it big. Frank Herbert was supposedly rather resentful of Dune in his later life, because he wanted to write other things and everyone kept hounding him for more Dune novels.

[Ninefingers]

33 minutes ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

Surely you're not trying to say he's oblivious to the fact that other people have it worse though. He does seem to spend quite a bit of time and energy raising money to help people that are less fortunate than himself.

And tbf, GRRM complains quite often as well about the added pressure of fame and success, as have many other authors who made it big. Frank Herbert was supposedly rather resentful of Dune in his later life, because he wanted to write other things and everyone kept hounding him for more Dune novels.

Of course not, just pointing out that when you're a rich white guy in America, it's really easy for complaints about how tough you have it to come off as obnoxious. 

And yeah, fame and success add pressure. But he's complicit in that. No one made him do a TV and movie and video game adaption etc etc etc. He chose to do all those things. He has plenty of money. He could easily choose to live his life the way he says he yearns to: more time with his kids, less responsibilities. My sympathy is extremely limited here.

[Darth Richard II]

Yeah if I remember from a while back in one of these threads or maybe a thread about sales, Rothfuss pretty much never has to work again.

The dude needs to like...take a year off from the internet I think.

[Gone and Quite Forgotten]

4 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

The dude needs to like...take a year off from the internet I think.

That, I agree with.

[jurble]

1 hour ago, Darth Richard II said:

 Rothfuss pretty much never has to work again.

He needs to open the Kickstarter for the art decks back up and/or sell them some other way and I'll contribute to his never having to work again.  I missed the Kickstarter period and I desperately want them, but not so much as to pay out the ass on Ebay.