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‘The Alienist’: Daniel Brühl, Luke Evans & Dakota Fanning tv series


AncalagonTheBlack

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The show's been picking up a bit. The first few episodes were pretty meh, I thought, but it seems to have found it's legs in the last couple. I can't help but giggle at Daniel Bruhl's particularly breathy line reading, though, especially on words that start with a "wh" ("Wwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhy?"). I keep waiting for him to go full hookah-smoking caterpillar anytime now.

On 2/20/2018 at 0:26 AM, Astromech said:

Oh, you don't want to fuck with Teddy Roosevelt, Captain Connor

If only the guy playing Roosevelt wasn't terrible. I genuinely feel like an actual wooden sculpture of TR would be less wooden than this actor's performance.

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2 hours ago, matt b said:

The show's been picking up a bit. The first few episodes were pretty meh, I thought, but it seems to have found it's legs in the last couple. I can't help but giggle at Daniel Bruhl's particularly breathy line reading, though, especially on words that start with a "wh" ("Wwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhy?"). I keep waiting for him to go full hookah-smoking caterpillar anytime now.

If only the guy playing Roosevelt wasn't terrible. I genuinely feel like an actual wooden sculpture of TR would be less wooden than this actor's performance.

Hey, it isn't just any ol' actor who could play Sean Roman in Chicago Med, Chicago Fire and Chicago PD. I forgot he also played Jim in Ray Donovan.

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This last episodes was quite enjoyable, I’m liking the depth Sara’s character is getting, and Dakota Fanning is doing a great job.

I’m guessing this is intentional and quite obvious, but now that I’m rewatching sherlock,  I’m getting serious Holmes and Dr Watson vibes from Kreizler and John. Which is a good thing in my book, for the record. I like their dynamic and I like the way the investigation flows. 

It’s nice to see Roosevelt getting some substance, so far he was just there in the background and I wasn’t even sure he’s The Roosevelt. 

A little confused about the killer, I was hoping for another twist, but it seems poor Joseph Altin (who I haven’t yet seen in the role of a character that was both mentally and physically healthy) is the bad guy after all. 

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22 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

This last episodes was quite enjoyable, I’m liking the depth Sara’s character is getting, and Dakota Fanning is doing a great job.

I’m guessing this is intentional and quite obvious, but now that I’m rewatching sherlock,  I’m getting serious Holmes and Dr Watson vibes from Kreizler and John. Which is a good thing in my book, for the record. I like their dynamic and I like the way the investigation flows. 

It’s nice to see Roosevelt getting some substance, so far he was just there in the background and I wasn’t even sure he’s The Roosevelt. 

A little confused about the killer, I was hoping for another twist, but it seems poor Joseph Altin (who I haven’t yet seen in the role of a character that was both mentally and physically healthy) is the bad guy after all. 

The episode pretty strongly suggested that Willem Van Burgen is not the killer.

Kreitzler may be wrong about some things, but I really don't think he is wrong about that.

 

ETA: Just checked Josef Atlin on Wikipedia - he played Pypar on GoT?! I didn't realize that was the sane guy. Well, Pypar was healthy.

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9 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

The episode pretty strongly suggested that Willem Van Burgen is not the killer.

Kreitzler may be wrong about some things, but I really don't think he is wrong about that.

 

ETA: Just checked Josef Atlin on Wikipedia - he played Pypar on GoT?! I didn't realize that was the sane guy. Well, Pypar was healthy.

RIGHT! Pypar was sane and healthy.  I quite forgot that he played Pypar. Well I’m glad the guy had at least that one healthy role. 

Yeah, and the reveal of Joseph Altin was pretty premature too, imo. This episode I kept waiting for someone to show up with another kind of silver smile, but the only thing I have seen so far is the grey moustach of that perv looking police official who first pointed at the Van Burgen family. But no serious option B so far. Well, I’m curious to see how this unfolds. 

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18 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

RIGHT! Pypar was sane and healthy.  I quite forgot that he played Pypar. Well I’m glad the guy had at least that one healthy role. 

Yeah, and the reveal of Joseph Altin was pretty premature too, imo. This episode I kept waiting for someone to show up with another kind of silver smile, but the only thing I have seen so far is the grey moustach of that perv looking police official who first pointed at the Van Burgen family. But no serious option B so far. Well, I’m curious to see how this unfolds. 

I don’t remember that guy. I guess I need a rewatch.

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5 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

RIGHT! Pypar was sane and healthy.  I quite forgot that he played Pypar. Well I’m glad the guy had at least that one healthy role. 

Yeah, and the reveal of Joseph Altin was pretty premature too, imo. This episode I kept waiting for someone to show up with another kind of silver smile, but the only thing I have seen so far is the grey moustach of that perv looking police official who first pointed at the Van Burgen family. But no serious option B so far. Well, I’m curious to see how this unfolds. 

Another thought: do we even know the killer has a "silver smile"? We all assumed the regulat client with a silver smile who promised Giorgio/Gloria things was the killer, that may not be the case.

I think the client with the silver smile was Willem, but he is not the killer - just a red herring and the reason for police obstruction. Connor etc. may assumed it was him, or just were afraid the investigation would lead to him even though he's not the killer - it would be embarrassing for a rich respected family if people found out their son was hiring boy prostitutes.

But Willem can't be the killer - because then the main story would be about Roosevelt vs police corruption and establishment, rather than about Laszlo, John and Sarah finding the truth.

Assuming that the killer is the person who wrote the letter, and that most of  the conclusions have bee, what do we know?

The killer is:

- someone between 24 and 35 who was born to an immigrant, poor background, but has made good and become relatively well off (or his family has?)

- targets specifically transgender boys of immigrant background (mostly poor - but the first victim was not a prostitute and seemed to be from a middle class family)

- seems to enjoy causing emotional pain to a mother figure 

- shows a deep disgust for immigrants (a form of self-racism?)

- has a fixation on mutilation and - if his letter is taken as true - cannibalism

- but insists on not having had sex or raped the victims - and seems to feel disgusted and insulted with the idea (and have contempt for sexual "perverts", including the victim?)

- has an obsession with religion.

The latest episode also had Kreitzler realizing that he is wrong sometimes and that his theories on the killers' motivation may be wrong (this was the theme in both his conversation  with the professor,  and his encounter with the convicted killer). He has been assuming that those are sex crimes and that the serial killer is someone havong sex with the boys - maybe that's his mistake? Going from the premise of sex crime, he thought the killer was reliving sexual abuse he himself suffered as a child, and Sarah thought the abuse may have been by a woman. They perfectly described Willem - who is reliving his own abuse by his mother with the boys he is dressing up in dresses and mothering - buy the real killer claims not to be sexually interested, probably has different and more complicated motivations? There even seem to be shades of hate crime there (with at least some self-hate).

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To me, the best part of this past episode was...

Spoiler

the swerve with the big bad... they delayed the reveal... we were all thinking that it was Sean Young's psycho kid with the Silver smile... then boom... he takes a bullet to the brain... we're wondering what the hell is going on... and then the reveal that the real killer is still stalking kids... 

Brilliant fucking writing....

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On 2018. 02. 22. at 8:20 PM, Annara Snow said:

Another thought: do we even know the killer has a "silver smile"? We all assumed the regulat client with a silver smile who promised Giorgio/Gloria things was the killer, that may not be the case.

[...]

Assuming that the killer is the person who wrote the letter, and that most of  the conclusions have bee, what do we know?

The killer is:

- someone between 24 and 35 who was born to an immigrant, poor background, but has made good and become relatively well off (or his family has?)

- targets specifically transgender boys of immigrant background (mostly poor - but the first victim was not a prostitute and seemed to be from a middle class family)

- seems to enjoy causing emotional pain to a mother figure 

- shows a deep disgust for immigrants (a form of self-racism?)

- has a fixation on mutilation and - if his letter is taken as true - cannibalism

- but insists on not having had sex or raped the victims - and seems to feel disgusted and insulted with the idea (and have contempt for sexual "perverts", including the victim?)

- has an obsession with religion.

The latest episode also had Kreitzler realizing that he is wrong sometimes and that his theories on the killers' motivation may be wrong (this was the theme in both his conversation  with the professor,  and his encounter with the convicted killer). He has been assuming that those are sex crimes and that the serial killer is someone havong sex with the boys - maybe that's his mistake? Going from the premise of sex crime, he thought the killer was reliving sexual abuse he himself suffered as a child, and Sarah thought the abuse may have been by a woman. They perfectly described Willem - who is reliving his own abuse by his mother with the boys he is dressing up in dresses and mothering - buy the real killer claims not to be sexually interested, probably has different and more complicated motivations? There even seem to be shades of hate crime there (with at least some self-hate).

That’s what this episode proved indeed. 

As for Lezlo’s thinking, his mistake was possibly the best red herring. While it was fishy that the killer would be revealed so soon, they spent a good episode convincing the viewer that Willem fit the character they were looking for, while Lezlo directly expressed he didn’t think it was Willam. Either way, He was wrong about something and the tension to find out which he was wrong about was what has put these past two episodes to a next level. It was an exceptionally subtle and layered deception, great writing. 

The list of what we know of the killer made me think of two things. First, it’s curious how the killer is basically everything combined in one person that the 2010s hate. Let’s not get into this, though. The other thought, are all those boys transgender though. I got the impression that at least some of them are just boys forced into prostitution by their circumstances who dress up as girls as part of their job. This last kid, the egg cream one (which sounds disgusting, by the way) was a boy out of work. 

 

So, I’m kinda late catching up on the last episode, but I watched it and it was great and I can’t wait to find out what happened to Lezlo’s hand. Also I want Sarah with John, though I’m 100% certain that’s not going to happen. 

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On 3/4/2018 at 3:54 PM, RhaenysBee said:

That’s what this episode proved indeed. 

As for Lezlo’s thinking, his mistake was possibly the best red herring. While it was fishy that the killer would be revealed so soon, they spent a good episode convincing the viewer that Willem fit the character they were looking for, while Lezlo directly expressed he didn’t think it was Willam. Either way, He was wrong about something and the tension to find out which he was wrong about was what has put these past two episodes to a next level. It was an exceptionally subtle and layered deception, great writing. 

The list of what we know of the killer made me think of two things. First, it’s curious how the killer is basically everything combined in one person that the 2010s hate. Let’s not get into this, though. The other thought, are all those boys transgender though. I got the impression that at least some of them are just boys forced into prostitution by their circumstances who dress up as girls as part of their job. This last kid, the egg cream one (which sounds disgusting, by the way) was a boy out of work. 

 

So, I’m kinda late catching up on the last episode, but I watched it and it was great and I can’t wait to find out what happened to Lezlo’s hand. Also I want Sarah with John, though I’m 100% certain that’s not going to happen. 

As to the bolded - me, too!  If Laszlo's...

Spoiler

...lying about his arm, why?  Instead of a congenital "withered arm" could it be the result of some childhood injury?  Could it have been the result of some sort of physical abuse/attack on the part of one of his parents?  And, if this is the case, could it be at least some of what he's drawing on (or assuming) to try to "get into the mind of the killer"?

Maybe that will be some of what we see (or are already seeing) Laszlo go through as he's trying to solve this mystery?  That instead of thinking the killer is somehow "like him" (that could be blinding him a bit) he needs to simply "look at his bird" in its own right?   

I don't know, but I'm finding it interesting enough to stick around to find out.

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At first I thought JP Morgan was counting money in that scene at his mansion, then realized he was playing solitaire. Phew, the money counting would be too cheesy. I appreciated Laszlo declining Morgan's assistance so as to not be compromised, or indebted.

I actually kind of liked Laszlo realizing (after really being told off by Silas's niece) that he treats those around him poorly. The dinner scene with Maria was nice.

The book is coming back to me more and more with each episode, unsurprisingly.

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Loved the scene with Silas’ niece. Someone needed to say it. For a man with such high intelligence and ego he’s oblivious to how he makes people feel. Maria seems to be the opposite and is aware of everything around her so I guess it works well between the two.

Am I the only one that is horribly angry that he slapped Sarah? WTH, isn’t he supposed to have all this self control? I love that she knows exactly which buttons of his to push. 

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15 hours ago, Lady Olenna said:

Am I the only one that is horribly angry that he slapped Sarah? WTH, isn’t he supposed to have all this self control? I love that she knows exactly which buttons of his to push. 

As much as i wanted her to slap him back... I think the better writing decision was to have her gracefully exit... it better fits the era... But since the first episode, they've established Laszlo as a complete asshole... i wonder why John remains his friend... Lazlo treats everyone like shit... 

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On 3/4/2018 at 10:54 PM, RhaenysBee said:

That’s what this episode proved indeed. 

As for Lezlo’s thinking, his mistake was possibly the best red herring. While it was fishy that the killer would be revealed so soon, they spent a good episode convincing the viewer that Willem fit the character they were looking for, while Lezlo directly expressed he didn’t think it was Willam. Either way, He was wrong about something and the tension to find out which he was wrong about was what has put these past two episodes to a next level. It was an exceptionally subtle and layered deception, great writing. 

The list of what we know of the killer made me think of two things. First, it’s curious how the killer is basically everything combined in one person that the 2010s hate. Let’s not get into this, though. The other thought, are all those boys transgender though. I got the impression that at least some of them are just boys forced into prostitution by their circumstances who dress up as girls as part of their job. This last kid, the egg cream one (which sounds disgusting, by the way) was a boy out of work. 

 

So, I’m kinda late catching up on the last episode, but I watched it and it was great and I can’t wait to find out what happened to Lezlo’s hand. Also I want Sarah with John, though I’m 100% certain that’s not going to happen. 

No, the boys aren't all necessarily transgender, (the earlier victim, though, the one who wasn't a prostitute, and who was killed with his sister, definitely was). But I don't think the difference means much to the killer.

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15 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

No, the boys aren't all necessarily transgender, (the earlier victim, though, the one who wasn't a prostitute, and who was killed with his sister, definitely was). But I don't think the difference means much to the killer.

That makes sense, actually. That it doesn’t make any difference to the killer. I suppose he just has an issue with boy prostitutes in general...

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Noooooo! Aw, Mary! :(

Who was the third man "invading" Laszo's place? He wasn't also a cop/former cop, was he?

Has anyone tried to go to the site thealienist.com "to get deeper into the show and for more info" as they say during the show? All it seems to be is a a street scene with the year 1896 shown in the middle. There is a "hot spot" near the upper left corner, but clicking on it does nothing...

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4 hours ago, Quoth said:

Noooooo! Aw, Mary! :(

Who was the third man "invading" Laszo's place? He wasn't also a cop/former cop, was he?

Has anyone tried to go to the site thealienist.com "to get deeper into the show and for more info" as they say during the show? All it seems to be is a a street scene with the year 1896 shown in the middle. There is a "hot spot" near the upper left corner, but clicking on it does nothing...

I believe that is the character referred to as the "Swede". I'm still uncertain as to why he didn't pursue Laszlo and John after killing their coachman and causing their carriage to crash.

I just visited that site and it appears to be working. It seems to just recap info from the episodes though. Nothing is really added.

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Thanks, Astromech. :)

Yeah, that seemed strange to me, too. I'd have pursued if only to confirm their deaths. But, then, we have decades worth of spy/thriller stories, movies and TV shows to hone our assassin like abilities. :lol:

That site's still not working for me. Maybe it's the browser? I'm using Firefox. Anyway, if it's just  recaps... *shrug*

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