Lame Lothar Frey

Catelyn Stoneheart's ending

31 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Direct question today.  How do you think her story will end?  Do you think it was right for her to hang Merret and Petyr?

Edited by Lame Lothar Frey

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Posted (edited)

As an insane supernatural force, yeah it was right to do that. I see the revenge as the only thing keeping her alive. In my opinion I see three possibilities for LS' demise. 

1) the Trial of Brienne and Jaime results in her death. I don't know how but I would really prefer if both Jaime and Brienne survive this. Although I don't care about Brienne that much she (probably) is the direct descendant of Ser Duncan the Tall and the Jaime Brienne lovestory is my favourite. Jaime is probably my favourite character in the story. LS seems the most temporary of the three. Besides freeing Edmund and Jeyne Westerling and killing some more Frey, she has nog big part to play. Jaime could be the valonqar, AA reborn etc. 

 

2) she passes on her life to someone else, maybe Arya/Sansa/Edmund/Jeyne. Just like Beric did she could die by saving someone else. 

 

3) the obsessive need for revenge dies down, maybe after hearing Sansa, Arya are alive or Bran visiting her through his powers. This vengence seems to be the fuel to her fire. She also could realise revenge as a prime motive only leads to more darkness and despair. I think LS dies when her need for revenge dies. 

 

Edit: BTW never was very good at telling the Freys apart. 

Edited by Ethelarion

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Hey no problems here with Mother Merciless hanging any of the Frey's....

 

I think that her end will be when Mother Merciless finds her Mercy (aka Arya).  When she finds out that Arya (and maybe her other children) are still alive I think she will be done.

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I think that Arya will probably go on a killing spree in Westeros, either under instruction from the FM or going rogue as Arya Stark, and that when she encounters Lady Stoneheart she'll see how revenge and senseless killing corrupts a persons being, and then give the gift of death to LSH and become a kindler, gentler, though still lethal Arya.  I can only see LSH as a vehicle to show how vengeance and the perpetual cycle of violence is useless, and Arya seems like the character who is most going to need that lesson - who better to get it from then her mother?

Not sure how the Brienne/Jaime situation turns out, but I'm 90% sure Jaime makes it out alive (I think he, while not being the hero of the story, ends up making the ultimate suicidal sacrifice that results in the triumph of Jon/Dany) and 50% sure Brienne makes it out alive.  Not sure about Podrick.  Maybe Jaime offers to die in his place and it convinces LSH.  Maybe Thoros, who seems greatly dismayed at what the BwB has become under LSH, offers himself up in creating a diversion by which Jaime, Brienne, and Pod can escape.  We'll see... or we won't since no other books are coming out.

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I think she will meet up with Arya beforehand, possibly crowning her with the one she recovered from the Freys. Maybe Arya will see the suffering she is in and put her out of her misery - showing the development from when she could not bring herself to give mercy to Sandor as she felt he did not deserve death. Another possibility is that LS's targets stops hanging those who are guilty or look incredibly guilty and starts targeting all those associated with the Freys regardless of their support or involvement in the Red Wedding. As a result Arya feels compelled to stop her mother as it is not just.

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Will reunite with Arya and then she realize that her mission is over. Then Arya kills her or she passes her life to someone else. 

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I'm wondering if she'll get to give Petyr a nasty shock.  It's too neat and cinematic to have her scrag him, though. (And I want him to get away with shit, because.). But it would be a hell of a payback.

She feels like a character that should end in some deranged and mutual way.  Pacing through a massacre of Freys, advancing on Walder and taking him down as she dies again.

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She doesn't eat.  You have to ask where she gets her energy from.  Her time is limited in the same way that Jon Connington has limited time.  She will die and I hope she doesn't take any more people to the grave.  She is just lik Arya.  Both are blinded by anger and driven to take the path of revenge.  It is a tragedy but it is also their choice. 

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Should Arya the Avenger meet Lady Stoneheart, Arya might finally get some kind of approval from her mother which she had never received in Cat's life. Perhaps Arya would get more names for her (rapidly shrinking) list: Petyr Baelish, Walder Frey, Roose Bolton, to name some of the most obvious. Then the Undead Catelyn might expire on her own, knowing her mission was accomplished, and Arya would have a kind of closure.

And when Arya tracked down Littlefinger, she'd also run into Sansa. This one might get ugly.

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I agree with above posts that suggest she'll be reunited with Arya... and maybe even Bran! The reason I say that is because of GRRMs original outline. It has Catelyn, (magical) Bran, and (swordswoman) Arya escape North of the Wall. Catelyn is killed by the Others one way or another, so we can assume she becomes a wight. I feel like a powerful milestone in Arya and Bran's arc will be confronting their undead mother; so powerful he couldn't bring himself to cut out the scene/interaction when major changes were made to the story. 

This logic could all be hogwash, though. The reason they had to go north of the Wall was because Lord Commander Jon Snow reluctantly refuses them sanctuary when they are forced to flee Winterfell (from Boltons, I believe). We know that Jon Snow in the published series would have done quite the opposite, even for Catelyn (I would argue). But it seems noteworthy that unCat (Stoneheart) manages to be present in both the outline and the published edition. Seems like he couldn't let go of something.

I think the best revenge she could get before her re-death is on Petyr Baelish. He really instigated a lot of the mess, capitalizing on Catelyn's trust in him.

1 hour ago, zandru said:

Should Arya the Avenger meet Lady Stoneheart, Arya might finally get some kind of approval from her mother which she had never received in Cat's life. Perhaps Arya would get more names for her (rapidly shrinking) list: Petyr Baelish, Walder Frey, Roose Bolton, to name some of the most obvious. Then the Undead Catelyn might expire on her own, knowing her mission was accomplished, and Arya would have a kind of closure.

And when Arya tracked down Littlefinger, she'd also run into Sansa. This one might get ugly.

To the first bolded statement, I really like this idea. They seem to be employing similar methods these days. ;) Perhaps the realization is that they are not so different after all. Crossing fingers! When Catelyn was alive I was a big fan of her. She was an example of being powerful while acting within the boundaries of being a lady of Westeros. I was traumatized when she died, but her second death will be more bittersweet than anything else.

As for Sansa, I think it will, at least initially, be a happy reunion. Starting in ACoK, they both talk how they miss the other and worry about each other. It's easy to miss, but the sisterly conflicts seems to have taken a far back seat to the other traumatic events around them. There is some speculation that Arya will somehow come across the letter Cersei forced Sansa to write and sign asking Robb to bend the knee. So yeah... could get ugly... But I guess all I was pointing out was that there's no grudge (presently). I'd like to hope that there wont ever be, but I think I've always been working under the assumption that the Starks (and Jon Snow) will be a united front if they are all reunited. Knowing GRRM and his little twists, this could easily end up a false assumption.

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If Arya and and Lady Stoneheart meet, Arya will most likely be her end. I think she would ask Arya to put an end to her miserable existence.

If She and Arya never cross paths, I think her desire for vengeance gradually recedes to be replaced by sorrow and despair and she will end her own life.

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I think she'll be somebody's Nissa Nissa. Here's my theory: 

- Beric Dondarrion used only his blood to light his sword on fire. 

- Those reanimated by R'hllor are said to have his fire inside them. 

Ergo, their blood is inflammable somehow, hence why Azor Ahai needed to plunge the sword in Nissa Nissa's heart. 

So, that's assumption #1. 

Assumption #2 would be the foreshadowing when Stannis is burning the Seven at Dragonstone. They're clearly meant to represent at least some Starks, the Mother standing in for Catelyn. And, you guessed it, the statue has an actual burning sword through the heart. 

So, we have that Stoneheart is likely to be stabbed in the heart, but who's gonna do the stabbing? Well, there are a couple of people on a crash course with Stoneheart who are the prime suspects: Brienne and/or Jaime, who, in the latter's dream, were brandishing actual flaming swords. 

Personally, I'm leaning more towards Brienne doing the deed for several reasons. I'm not saying she's Azor Ahai reborn, but in the AA myth he did have to kill a lion before killing Nissa Nissa. 

So I think Stoneheart might command Brienne to kill Jaime (the lion) herself to test her loyalty (I think Brienne will fake this, only wounding Jaime or via some other plan to fool Stoneheart), and then Brienne's gonna take advantage of Stoneheart trusting her once more to stab her in the heart.

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I have always been partial to the that she passes her 2nd life to Jon. Very doubtful but would be a nice ending to her character arc. Probably nothing that nice is going to happen.

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17 hours ago, Lame Lothar Frey said:

Direct question today.  How do you think her story will end?  Do you think it was right for her to hang Merret and Petyr?

When she finds out at least one of her daughters is alive she'll die peacefully.

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I think it raises an interesting question, that is found everywhere in the book and real life. Is someone following orders from a superior as guilty as the superior? Was Gregor Clegane the one to blame for the murder of the little princess, or does the blame lie on Tywin? Merrett Muttonhead and Petyr Pimple was following orders, they were not the ones organising the Red Wedding, although they could have warned the Starks and prevented it, so how guilty are they? 

Since this is fiction and my normal life morals don't really play in, and I am big North/Stark supporter, I am all for the hanging of some Freys! Hang them all! And we can't really expect the Brotherhood Without Banners to be too diligent in figuring out which Freys deserve it more than others. The Red Wedding waa chaotic, there is no knowing who was involved. Also, no one, characters, readers or even the author at times, can keep the Freys straight, so I don't blame anyone for going by "a Frey is a Frey" system.

 

For Lady Stoneheart's ending, I want her to do something with Robb's crown. GRRM put it in her hands for some reason I hope, so she can crown  new King in the North. 

I don't really want Arya or any of the Starks children to have to kill their mother's reanimated body, those children have been through enough. I want LS to feel like she has served her purpose, that it is time for her to go and be with Robb and Ned, so she passes her life into someone else. 

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10 minutes ago, LordManderlyAsDragonRider said:

 

For Lady Stoneheart's ending, I want her to do something with Robb's crown. GRRM put it in her hands for some reason I hope, so she can crown  new King in the North. 

I totally forgot about the crown. Thank you for pointing it out!

But then, who would she crown the next King in the North? Jon? Would Lady Stoneheart be able to get over her discomfort of Jon? Not to mention that Jon is pretty much stuck at the Wall right now.

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50 minutes ago, shameeka said:

I totally forgot about the crown. Thank you for pointing it out!

But then, who would she crown the next King in the North? Jon? Would Lady Stoneheart be able to get over her discomfort of Jon? Not to mention that Jon is pretty much stuck at the Wall right now.

I really don't have a clue:) I would love for Rickon to be crowned, but i don't how LS and the BWB would make it up North with the current weather situation.

I am also not sure if it is Jeyne or Robb's crown she has, maybe the BWB frees a pregnant Jeyne and LS re-crowns her as the queen in the north. 

I just want that crown to serve a purpose!

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5 hours ago, shameeka said:

If Arya and and Lady Stoneheart meet, Arya will most likely be her end. I think she would ask Arya to put an end to her miserable existence.

If She and Arya never cross paths, I think her desire for vengeance gradually recedes to be replaced by sorrow and despair and she will end her own life.

How can they meet? Arya is in Braavos, about to undergo a second part of her training.

As far as I can tell, she's not likely to leave Braavos soon, judging from the Mercy chapter from TWOW.

2 hours ago, LordManderlyAsDragonRider said:

...For Lady Stoneheart's ending, I want her to do something with Robb's crown. GRRM put it in her hands for some reason I hope, so she can crown  new King in the North. 

I don't really want Arya or any of the Starks children to have to kill their mother's reanimated body, those children have been through enough. I want LS to feel like she has served her purpose, that it is time for her to go and be with Robb and Ned, so she passes her life into someone else. 

There are two more books to go. We have yet to learn if Jon died from his wounds or will recover. We don't know if Rickon shall return from Skagos, nor if Arya will ever return from Braavos. Nor if Sansa shall leave the Vale alive. And Bran. Will he turn into a tree? Become another Ivar the Boneless?

2 hours ago, shameeka said:

I totally forgot about the crown. Thank you for pointing it out!

But then, who would she crown the next King in the North? Jon? Would Lady Stoneheart be able to get over her discomfort of Jon? Not to mention that Jon is pretty much stuck at the Wall right now.

How about Rickon as King of the North?

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5 hours ago, LordManderlyAsDragonRider said:

maybe the BWB frees a pregnant Jeyne and LS re-crowns her as the queen in the north. 

Sorry, Jeyne Westerling ain't pregnant. Her mother, in cahoots with the late Tywin Lannister, saw to that.

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