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Catelyn Stoneheart's ending


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25 minutes ago, HoodedCrow said:

If the Rh'llor people can bring the dead back to life, could they heal Brans spine and legs?

A very interesting thought, particularly since red priest Moqorro did something similar for Victarion's arm - which is apparently now so horrific that not even his crew dares to look upon it, although it appears to work. If Bran were "healed", it would likely be done in a similarly disturbing way, particularly since Dead Lady Cat is totally a lay person, without any knowledge of the sophisticated magicks of the east.

But she and Bran are so far apart that their getting together seems unlikely. Now, Melisandre is another story.

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On 5/18/2017 at 7:42 AM, Lame Lothar Frey said:

Direct question today.  How do you think her story will end?  Do you think it was right for her to hang Merret and Petyr?

Brienne will kill her to save Jamie.  Yes, it was right for her to hang Merret and Petyr, and any other Freys she gets her hands on.

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In RL, there is some small hope for spinal chord repair. Bran's problem is not really in  his legs, although I haven't peeked at his fictional MRI. Good point about Moqorro, Zandru. I would say a spinal chord would be easier to fix magically, than a burned hand, or a slashed throat, and all of the other Beric wounds,  however I never finished my studies in Magiks. I did my thesis in the Monkeys Paw phenomenon, so you may be right about grotesque results.

Isn't there some possibility that the BWB will go North and that Bran just might leave the cave and come south? 

Yes, there is shadow baby Melisandre, but she might not be as motivated as Catelyn, (if that counts) unless Jon leveraged her.

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5 hours ago, HoodedCrow said:

In RL, there is some small hope for spinal chord repair. Bran's problem is not really in  his legs, although I haven't peeked at his fictional MRI. Good point about Moqorro, Zandru. I would say a spinal chord would be easier to fix magically, than a burned hand, or a slashed throat, and all of the other Beric wounds,  however I never finished my studies in Magiks. I did my thesis in the Monkeys Paw phenomenon, so you may be right about grotesque results.

Isn't there some possibility that the BWB will go North and that Bran just might leave the cave and come south? 

Yes, there is shadow baby Melisandre, but she might not be as motivated as Catelyn, (if that counts) unless Jon leveraged her.

Bran might actually do something evil in exchange for getting his legs back.  He is the character most likely to go dark.

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On 18/05/2017 at 7:54 AM, Ethelarion said:

As an insane supernatural force, yeah it was right to do that. I see the revenge as the only thing keeping her alive. In my opinion I see three possibilities for LS' demise. 

1) the Trial of Brienne and Jaime results in her death. I don't know how but I would really prefer if both Jaime and Brienne survive this. Although I don't care about Brienne that much she (probably) is the direct descendant of Ser Duncan the Tall and the Jaime Brienne lovestory is my favourite. Jaime is probably my favourite character in the story. LS seems the most temporary of the three. Besides freeing Edmund and Jeyne Westerling and killing some more Frey, she has nog big part to play. Jaime could be the valonqar, AA reborn etc. 

 

2) she passes on her life to someone else, maybe Arya/Sansa/Edmund/Jeyne. Just like Beric did she could die by saving someone else

 

3) the obsessive need for revenge dies down, maybe after hearing Sansa, Arya are alive or Bran visiting her through his powers. This vengence seems to be the fuel to her fire. She also could realise revenge as a prime motive only leads to more darkness and despair. I think LS dies when her need for revenge dies. 

 

Edit: BTW never was very good at telling the Freys apart. 

I agree w/ many things you said but... I don't think bringing a dead person back to life is "saving" them. Like, not at all. 

As to your edit, neither is good old Late Walder! :lol:

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I kinda like the idea that Arya gives her the "gift" and puts her out of her misery after seeing what a hyper-focus on vengeance has resulted in.

On 5/19/2017 at 3:35 AM, Prof. Cecily said:

How can they meet? Arya is in Braavos, about to undergo a second part of her training.

As far as I can tell, she's not likely to leave Braavos soon, judging from the Mercy chapter from TWOW

I actually think the preview chapter is paving the way for her eventual departure.  The FM aren't likely to be too happy with her actions.  It may take awhile, but I'm pretty sure she arrives in Westeros, and the Riverlands is a logical place, given Nymeria's presence.  Plus there are people she knows there.

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On 18/05/2017 at 9:24 PM, Ethelarion said:

 

2) she passes on her life to someone else, maybe Arya/Sansa/Edmund/Jeyne. Just like Beric did she could die by saving someone else.

I often wonder if her purpose is to bring Jon back again:

If she learns of his actual parentage, he dies somehow, she's in the vicinity....gives him the kiss of life.

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9 hours ago, Nevets said:

I kinda like the idea that Arya gives her the "gift" and puts her out of her misery after seeing what a hyper-focus on vengeance has resulted in.

I actually think the preview chapter is paving the way for her eventual departure.  The FM aren't likely to be too happy with her actions.  It may take awhile, but I'm pretty sure she arrives in Westeros, and the Riverlands is a logical place, given Nymeria's presence.  Plus there are people she knows there.

We don't know that Arya was acting on her own and, in fact is under orders, and is simply going on to the next phase of  her training.

I expect all this will be cleared up in TWOW.

Why Riverlands and not Winterfell?

Does she know where Nymeria is?

Couldn't she call Nymeria to her?

So many things to speculate about during the Long Wait!

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/18/2017 at 7:42 AM, Lame Lothar Frey said:

Direct question today.  How do you think her story will end?  Do you think it was right for her to hang Merret and Petyr?

While I like the YT channel "Order of the Greenhand", I must admit that they direct more criticism to the females than they do to the males.  I am not a fan of their Catelyn five-part series.  Catelyn made many errors in judgment and escalated what should have been a crime and a minor guest rights violation into full scale war.  However, Catelyn also gave good counsel to Robb.  It wasn't her fault that Robb broke the alliance with the Freys.  So why is the "Order" directing its criticisms to Catelyn and not Robb?  And then showing love for Tywin?  I suspect a little bit of male bias is at work.  Anyway, let's press on.  Stoneheart has no legal authority.  She is a vigilante and her methods are far from just nor ethical.  A sham of a trial in which results in an execution.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

Lady Stoneheart is one of those characters that I'm very unsure about. We saw her in the ASOS epilogue, and then she didn't appear again in the flesh until the end of AFFC. For a character so hyped, she seems to be underplayed right about now, which makes me think she still has more to do before GRRM finally puts an end to her for once and for all.

This is a gut feeling rather than a text-based argument, but I think Jaime and Brienne will both survive their encounter with LS. They've been lucky before, and I think there's more to their story still to come. (On a side note, if Jaime really is the valonqar, I think Brienne may play a part in that. Jaime knows how to use a sword, so if it was a mercy-kill or to stop Cersei from blowing up the city, he would likely put an end to her the same way he did Aerys. Choking indicates a deep-set, incoherent rage, as we've already seen with Tyrion. I've seen some people theorize that Jaime's anger with Cersei's infidelity will lead to this, but his arc seems to be moving away from his attachment to her, not towards it. I think it's possible that Cersei, in her jealousy and paranoia, will send someone after Brienne--remember Melara--and this will result in Jaime strangling Cersei. Or who knows, maybe GRRM is just messing with us and the valonqar will be someone entirely unexpected).

I like the theory that Arya will see what's become of her mother and give her the gift of mercy--which in this case, is death. Arya's story has all the elements of a tragedy, and I think this will fit into that arc well. 

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I think we have to trust Brienne's judgement on this.  She swore an oath to Cat and would be obliged to obey her no matter how misguided if Cat were still alive, but she's not, she's just a "thing".  I would ideally like Brienne to do a mercy killing on LSH and then convince the BwB to go back to doing more constructive things than just killing Freys.  Jaime's presence actually complicates things in this regard however because any of the BwB would happily string him up anyway without any encouragement from LSH

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On Invalid Date at 7:42 AM, Lame Lothar Frey said:

Direct question today.  How do you think her story will end?  Do you think it was right for her to hang Merret and Petyr?

Lady SH wants Roose Bolton: the man who betrayed her son and drove the sword through his heart.

And if I'm right that Roose is actually the last son of the Night's King and has been skinchanging into his offspring through the millennia, we'll have LSH and Roose fighting to the true death at some point, except it won't be vs. Roose per se, but Ramsey.

 

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