Wolfgirly Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 6 hours ago, sweetsunray said: The nephews and nieces of his true mother are alive too. They're just not Targ family, but Stark-Tullys. Yes true but I meant on his father's side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graydon Hicks Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 but jon does say he is better witht he sword. i think he has the potential for the same greatness and abilities his father rhaegar had, but with his upbringing, the less sophisticated north, with ned's need to keep him hidden, the catelyn's very obvious dislike of him, he's never had much chance to cultivate those talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crowcrow Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 On 5/21/2017 at 0:04 PM, Lord Wraith said: Why'd you think GRRM made Maester Aemon a blind man? damn, never thought of it until now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaibaman Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 I guess the only thing 'Targaryen' is he does have their legendary short temper which does surface whenever someone pisses him off enough to "wake the dragon". Other than that I don't see any 'Targaryeness' in him. And the only that he and his birth father have in common is they are both emos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenstone Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 On 5/19/2017 at 10:00 AM, GyantSpyder said: Jon seems a lot like Rhaegar - sullen, arrogant, a loner, good at things, puts off political problems, tends to think of himself as the only person who can accomplish dangerous tasks that affect everybody, and, of course, very attractive. Jon doesn't seem to pay this much mind, and it's easy to justify or write off in various ways, but a lot of people tend to note how pretty Jon is, and one interpretation of that is he inherited some of his looks from his super-hot daddy. I don't think anybody remarks that Ned Stark is especially attractive. Sullen doesn't describe Rhaegar at all. Sullen means bad-tempered. In that, Jon is his own person since Ned isn't described as sullen either. Also Jon isn't described as very attractive. That's just the show. Cat thought Ned was disappointing in the looks department and Ned said that Jon's face looks like a younger version of his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said: Also Jon isn't described as very attractive. Seeing how women like Val, Alys, Ygritte and Mel reacted he is handsome enought. After all he looks like Lyanna and she had a wild beauty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenstone Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 19 hours ago, Kaibaman said: I guess the only thing 'Targaryen' is he does have their legendary short temper which does surface whenever someone pisses him off enough to "wake the dragon". Other than that I don't see any 'Targaryeness' in him. And the only that he and his birth father have in common is they are both emos. Um, wolf's blood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenstone Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Just now, The Doctor's Consort said: Seeing how women like Val, Alys, Ygritte and Mel reacted he is handsome enought. After all he looks like Lyanna and she had a wild beauty. Mel doesn't wanna bang him 'cause he's hot. She wants to have sex with him because she wants to create another shadowbaby. She made the same offer to Davos who is described as very plain with a common face. Ygritte isn't hot. From how Jon describes her, she sounds like a plain girl with a nice smile. Also wildlings may have lower standards. Val is hot but at that point Jon is Lord Commander and power is an aphrodisiac. Also wildlings may have lower standards. I don't think Alys wanted to bone Jon. I think people are seeing a little too much into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Lord_Ravenstone said: Mel doesn't wanna bang him 'cause he's hot. She wants to have sex with him because she wants to create another shadowbaby. She made the same offer to Davos who is described as very plain with a common face. Ygritte isn't hot. From how Jon describes her, she sounds like a plain girl with a nice smile. Also wildlings may have lower standards. Val is hot but at that point Jon is Lord Commander and power is an aphrodisiac. Also wildlings may have lower standards. I don't think Alys wanted to bone Jon. I think people are seeing a little too much into that. I love how you find excuses for the text proofs that don't agree with your opinion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einheri Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 On 22.5.2017 at 5:12 PM, Grover Bluejoy said: Yep. Especially when you read the descriptions of the offspring from a Targaryen & non-Targaryen, it seems they either look Valyrian or not Valyrian; there is no in between. Didn't Bittersteel have black hair and purple eyes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Crypt Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 It will be a sad day on this forum when it is revealed Jons mother was Ashara Dayne. History will have to be rewritten like the maesters of the Citadel have done with the Targaryan origin myth. In my opinion at least... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einheri Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 12 minutes ago, Maester Crypt said: It will be a sad day on this forum when it is revealed Jons mother was Ashara Dayne. History will have to be rewritten like the maesters of the Citadel have done with the Targaryan origin myth. In my opinion at least... I take it you do not watch the show, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Crypt Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Einheri said: I take it you do not watch the show, eh? The show is not the books. The overall story can be told with Jon being Rhaegar and Lyannas child for television purposes. In fact it is simpler to understand if that was actually the case. I haven't seen much if any evidence in the books that would suggest Jon is Lyannas child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Then you need to read more carefully. It might also be a good idea to consider which of the potential parentages offer some valid reasoning for the secrecy as well as a payback for the readers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 2 hours ago, Maester Crypt said: The show is not the books. The overall story can be told with Jon being Rhaegar and Lyannas child for television purposes. In fact it is simpler to understand if that was actually the case. I haven't seen much if any evidence in the books that would suggest Jon is Lyannas child. Pardon, but you say there's barely any evidence that Jon is Lyanna's. Previously you said it will be a shock when it is revealed that Jon is Ashara's... does that mean you've found evidence supporting Ashara as Jon's mum? If so, please share. I've seen the claim many times but have yet to see any evidence to support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 4 hours ago, Maester Crypt said: The show is not the books. The overall story can be told with Jon being Rhaegar and Lyannas child for television purposes. In fact it is simpler to understand if that was actually the case. I haven't seen much if any evidence in the books that would suggest Jon is Lyannas child. Where is the evidence that Jon is Ashara's son? Ned NEVER thinks about Ashara in the books ever!!! There is no reason that he wouldn't tell Jon about her being his mother or thinking of Ashara as Jon's mother in his thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einheri Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 4 hours ago, Maester Crypt said: The show is not the books. The overall story can be told with Jon being Rhaegar and Lyannas child for television purposes. In fact it is simpler to understand if that was actually the case. I haven't seen much if any evidence in the books that would suggest Jon is Lyannas child. Normally I’d agree with this notion, but in this particular case, I think it’s pretty hard to ignore the show as Jon’s parentage is not only one of the central mysteries in both mediums, and as such likely one of the important plot points that had to be crossed during the course of the story (same with f.e. Ned’s execution and the Red Wedding), but also a question that the two Ds were able to guess correctly according to GRRM himself. Now combine that with all the textual hints and evidence in favor of RLJ (which btw you can check out yourself in the reference guide that has been stickied in this very subforum), and it seems overwhelmingly probable that this theory will also be proven correct in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNR Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 44 minutes ago, Einheri said: Jon’s parentage is not only one of the central mysteries in both mediums, and as such likely one of the important plot points that had to be crossed during the course of the story (same with f.e. Ned’s execution and the Red Wedding), but also a question that the two Ds were able to guess correctly according to GRRM himself Can you cite a source for this? The closest I have ever seen would be quite a different scenario: Quote He asked us, “Who is Jon Snow’s mother?” We had discussed it before, and we gave a shocking answer. At that point, George didn’t actually say whether or not we were right or wrong, but his smile was his tell. A mother ≠ two parents, and note that GRRM only smiled. Aside from D&D, there are various accounts from people who claim GRRM told them Jon's parentage (example: Alfie Allen), but those accounts, obviously, are not "according to GRRM himself." To my knowledge, GRRM has never stated anywhere that D&D, or anyone else in the world today, correctly guessed Jon's parentage. If anyone can produce such an SSM, interview, etc. showing that he did, I'm sure many fans would be greatly interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgirly Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 8 hours ago, The Doctor's Consort said: Seeing how women like Val, Alys, Ygritte and Mel reacted he is handsome enought. After all he looks like Lyanna and she had a wild beauty. Yes well I think Jon is handsome too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einheri Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 15 minutes ago, JNR said: Can you cite a source for this? The closest I have ever seen would be quite a different scenario: A mother ≠ two parents, and note that GRRM only smiled. Aside from D&D, there are various accounts from people who claim GRRM told them Jon's parentage (example: Alfie Allen), but those accounts, obviously, are not "according to GRRM himself." To my knowledge, GRRM has never stated anywhere that D&D, or anyone else in the world today, correctly guessed Jon's parentage. If anyone can produce such an SSM, interview, etc. showing that he did, I'm sure many fans would be greatly interested. Here's where I read it: Quote On the parentage of Jon Snow:Benioff and Weiss later said that during that meeting you asked them who they think Jon Snow's mother was, which is one of the earliest — and seemingly one of the central — mysteries in A Song of Ice and Fire. I did ask that at one point, just to see how closely they'd read the text. Did they get it right? They answered correctly. http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/george-r-r-martin-outtakes-from-the-rolling-stone-interview-20140428 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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