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Euron's Heir: Worthy of Whom?


hiemal

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5 hours ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

Some potential suspects could be

  • Bloodraven - For obvious reasons.
  • The Storm God - The "Evil God" of Eurons fellow Ironborn, could certainly explain the seemingly anti-Drowned God sentiment held by The Iron King, aswell as Euron's apparent manipulation of weather patterns.
  • The Great Other - Said to bring forth pain, destruction and large scale extinction events, which may tie in with Eurons boasts of "bringing forth a new age" and such.
  • Euron himself, post magical transformation - A longshot indeed,but all this talk of Krakens, sphinxes and Gorgossos, aswell as the nightmarish visions beheld by Aeron could hint to Euron transforming himself into some Kraken-man.
  • He of Many Faces - Could a working relationship have been established between The Crow's Eye and the Assasins in the wake of Balon's death? While we have nothing really hinting to such in the texts, let's not forget The Faceless Men command such a high price partly because they keep their business on the DL.
  • The Bloodstone Emperor - One of the most talked about new characters from TWOIAF, The Tiger Woman's Husband seemingly had many similiarities to Euron, chiefly his dark overlord ways and his connection to the Dany esque Amethyst Empress. One argument against this could be how Euron seems to hold little regard for the Oily Black Seastone Chair.
  • Balerion, God of Valyria - A little crackpottery, for our tinfoil mask wearing OP. If Euron did indeed spend time in the allegedly madness inducing apocalyptic wasteland of The Valyrian Peninsula, then why not? That the big bad of the Targaryen Dragons was named after a God of the Freehold always struck me as overlooked. What exactly did belief in Balerion The God entail? The Valyrian tradition of holding to many different gods could be seen as similiar to Euron's use of various priests in his schemes. Perhaps the God of Valyria has been whispering in Euron's ear, helping him procure exotic trinkets such as VS daggers, the horn and that "special suit".

 

Very nice list. I particularly love the idea of Balerion or some other god of Valyria as well as the Bloodstone Emperor.

5 hours ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

Euron's bastards could be pretty interesting, and I would enjoy seeing their characters and motives touched upon in the next book.

We hear he has fathered multiple bastards, yet the only one we get a good glimpse of the dark skinned lad with the wooly hair. The kid's appearance is pretty interesting in itself as we are not made privvy to any other mixed race Iron Born, another sign of Euron's unique lifestyle. Judging by the boy's appearance, a plausible home for the mother could be The Summer Islands, specifically, Tall Trees Town on Walano. 

Aah, fair Walano! Home to three major Summer settlements, the island was reportedly the location where The Summer Islanders first made contact with the outside world, as a Ghiscari slave ship was blown off course by some Greyjoy esque raging storm.

So we have had several theories accusing Euron of using the allias "The Corsair King" on this forum, some of which give good possible  movements for Crow's Eye during his three years in exile. One piece of information that always seems to catch an eye or two is how a new corsair King had risen in the Basilisk Isles, only to raid Tall Trees Town. If this King is indeed our Shade Drinking Ironman, then why Tall Trees Town?

Three reasons spring to mind

  • To retrieve the bastard he had fathered 10 plus years ago
  • To catch a glimpe of the famous Talking Trees of Walano.
  • For the plunder

In regards to the boy, this is a child who has lived 10 years, whilst Euron was only in exile for 3, telling us that Euron may have fathered a bastard and then found him after nearly a decade. (Unless the wooly haired lad was with Euron before his exile, which we have no hints at other than Victarion recognising him) Let's not forget that The Summer Islanders are arguably the world's greatest sea faring peoples, so a child of half Summer half Ironborn blood could certainly grow to be a fearsome sailor, something you would think Euron would see as beneficial. Now "dark skinned and wooly haired" does not necisarilly mean Summer Island descent, as certain other races such as Ghiscari have similiar traits, however I'm going to go with The Summer Islands as a home for the boys mother, due to the nautical nature of the people there, aswell as The Talking Trees.

Are these Trees Who Talk merely engraved wood, containing histories and songs of the handsome, intelligent Summer Islanders? Or are they something more in line with The Weirwood Network? If we assume the latter, then one could understand why Euron Greyjoy may want to visit. “When I was a boy, I dreamt that I could fly. When I woke, I couldn’t... or so the maester said. But what if he lied?” This line has drawn many similiarities to Bran and Bloodravens abilities. If Euron does indeed have some connection to BR, then would it be much of a stretch to imagine The Crow's Eye seeking out the Talking Trees of Walano, to perhaps jack into another version of The Weirwood Net? 

Having a son with one of the locals may be useful from a "combinging magical blood" aspect, if we imagine some Summer Islanders have a stark/Targ/Blackwood style higher mystery based genetic imprint which can be passed down, then maybe Euron sought out this bastard to help his Weirwood/Talking Trees abilities.

Maybe the "HIM" Euron said the bastards were not worthy of is some Talking Trees related Summer Island Greenseer? 

(Tinfoil hats and cardboard helmets aplenty here my friends) 

Another possible mother for the dark skinned son could be The Black Pearl Belegere Otherys. A descendent of Aegon IV and a Summer Island pirate captain, this lineage would mean Euron already has a "drop of dragon" in his menagerie, perhaps this would then make the lad useful for some sacrificial ceremony?

I also wonder who the other bastards are? And are their mothers from exotic locales too?

The "bastard" angle is a new one to me, and very exciting. An anti-Gendry? The bastards do seem to be thick as thieves. I wonder at Euron's relationship with Aurane Waters, the Bastard of Driftmark, Cersei's Fool's Gold, and the new pirate King of the Blackwater. He seems too old to be Euron's but given proximity to his target and everything else I think there is a meeting on the way?

And the Summer Isles/Talking Trees. Scrumptious. I'm going to digest that for a while, but briefly I'd like to mention that I think you are on to something. I've felt since reading about them in WoIaF that they are in some ways analogous to weirwoods, being linked with both "speech" and exceptional bows- which seems limited to goldenwood, weirwood, and most tellingly dragonbone.

Awesome post!

 

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 I think you got it all wrong my friend.

The right question is not "whorty of whom?" but "whorty of what?"...

And the answer is in the context of the sentence, you even posted the whole context.

I think we can clearly state that "worthy of him" is reference to being worthy of inheriting the Iron Throne.

Euron thinks he need to do a heir with Dany to ensure the IT remains at his house dominion (after he conquer it), and to ensure that his (Euron) heir is worthy of sitting in the IT.

So, in my humble opinion, there is no bad grammar and it's clear that it is no reference to any misterious thing/entity/person.

 

 

 

Edit: Oh i got it now, you meant he should have said "whorthy of it", instead of "whorthy of him"  if he was refearing to the Iron Throne.

Sorry, i am not a natural english speaker and in my language is more common to say him when refearing to a thing. 

Now i understand your point. : D

 

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23 minutes ago, Lord Asher Forrester said:

 I think you got it all wrong my friend.

The right question is not "whorty of whom?" but "whorty of what?"...

And the answer is in the context of the sentence, you even posted the whole context.

I think we can clearly state that "worthy of him" is reference to being worthy of inheriting the Iron Throne.

Euron thinks he need to do a heir with Dany to ensure the IT remains at his house dominion (after he conquer it), and to ensure that his (Euron) heir is worthy of sitting in the IT.

So, in my humble opinion, there is no bad grammar and it's clear that it is no reference to any misterious thing/entity/person.

 

 

 

Edit: Oh i got it now, you meant he should have said "whorthy of it", instead of "whorthy of him"  if he was refearing to the Iron Throne.

Sorry, i am not a natural english speaker and in my language is more common to say him when refearing to a thing. 

Now i understand your point. : D

 

Despite the irregularity it does seem like the most likely explanation because it doesn't introduce anything else to the conversation. Which begs the question: Does Euron know something about the Iron Throne that we don't? It is a unique piece of furniture.

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On 2017-5-21 at 5:05 PM, hiemal said:

Very nice list. I particularly love the idea of Balerion or some other god of Valyria as well as the Bloodstone Emperor.

The "bastard" angle is a new one to me, and very exciting. An anti-Gendry? The bastards do seem to be thick as thieves. I wonder at Euron's relationship with Aurane Waters, the Bastard of Driftmark, Cersei's Fool's Gold, and the new pirate King of the Blackwater. He seems too old to be Euron's but given proximity to his target and everything else I think there is a meeting on the way?

And the Summer Isles/Talking Trees. Scrumptious. I'm going to digest that for a while, but briefly I'd like to mention that I think you are on to something. I've felt since reading about them in WoIaF that they are in some ways analogous to weirwoods, being linked with both "speech" and exceptional bows- which seems limited to goldenwood, weirwood, and most tellingly dragonbone.

Awesome post!

 

Thanks for the kind words!

I hadn't considered the angle that Aurane could be Euron's son, but looking at it that's a real strong posssibility! I struggled to find anything concrete on Eurons age, but he seems to be between 35-55, Aurane is roughly 23 so I think the numbers add up. Fair enough Euron might have to have been playing the beast with two backs by the time he was like 12 or 13, but something tells me that wouldn't be a problem for The  Crow's Eye.

There's also the grey-green eyes of Aurane to consider. a very oceanic shade indeed. Perhaps a hint from our author? I'm not certain but I cant recall any historical Velaryons with similiar eyes, so this could be something to look out for. While one may expect a bastard of The Iron King to have a red eye, grey-green is very Drowned God-ish after all. Could this have something to do with the old "Merling King-Velaryon Driftwood Pact"?

Also, consider the naming structures involved, Au-rane and Eu-ron. Quite similiar, yet the same could be said for half the characters in the books. That said, Aurane doesn't sound particularly Velaryon, considering their fondness for "Jae" and the fiery "Rys", if truth be told it sounds like a Greyjoy name.

In the wake of The Greyjoy Rebellion, both The Velaryons and Kraken would have had many common gripes, such as the ruling Baratheon family, who had crushed both sea faring houses over the years at Pyke and Dragonstone respectively.

As to why it would be such a secret, well I can't imagine many highborn lords and ladies willing to let the whole seven kingdoms know that Euron Greyjoy, of all people, had sired a bastard on one of their kin.

I tend to sway toward the idea that Aurane and Salla are in cahoots, working for Varys, but I find myself more and more drawn to some kind of Aurane/Euron aliiance. Euron clearly feels he has outgrown the simplistic Ironborn ways, so him recruiting the world's top pirates to command a new fleet could certainly be an option. I suppose this all could tie into The Corsair King business, and if said Monarch is indeed Euron, he may have all those pirates he recruited in the Basilisk Isles on route to help Aurane fortify The Stepstones.

@hiemal In regards to The Summer and Basilisk Isles, if Euron has indeed been there, what do you think the chances that he had some kind of encounter with the oily black Toad Stone? Another option for "HIM" perhaps?

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2 hours ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

@hiemal In regards to The Summer and Basilisk Isles, if Euron has indeed been there, what do you think the chances that he had some kind of encounter with the oily black Toad Stone? Another option for "HIM" perhaps?

That would be a good source of "infection". I wonder if the Toadstone is of a substance with the Seastone Chair or if the Seastone Chair has been changed by its association with the Drowned God. I suspect that only Yeen itself is more "primal",

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31 minutes ago, hiemal said:

That would be a good source of "infection". I wonder if the Toadstone is of a substance with the Seastone Chair or if the Seastone Chair has been changed by its association with the Drowned God. I suspect that only Yeen itself is more "primal",

Wait, what? It's that man again.  'The Black Stone' by Robert E Howard was expressly Cthulhu Mythos. The Master of the Monolith was a vast, bloated toad-creature.  

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35 minutes ago, SeaWitch said:

Wait, what? It's that man again.  'The Black Stone' by Robert E Howard was expressly Cthulhu Mythos. The Master of the Monolith was a vast, bloated toad-creature.  

A recurring theme. There is a demon-haunted city in Essos called K'Dath! And the Black Goat of Qohor. And Leng.

Where there is smoke there is fire, and where there are tenebrous and eldritch shadows...

 

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On 5/20/2017 at 2:55 PM, hiemal said:

"They are of your body."

"So are the contents of my chamber pot. None is fit to sit the Seastone Chair, much less the Iron Throne. No, to make an heir that's worthy of him, I need a different woman. When the kraken weds the dragon, brother, let all the world beware."... AFFC

 

Who?! My only guess is the Storm God, whose champion I suspect Euron is, but I would love to hear some other ideas.

Nice catch, Hiemal (my my -- this is getting rather pedantic for someone who claims to be 'just spitballing'..! ) :).

'An heir that's worthy of him' could also be referring back to the line that began the discussion, 'Victarion was turning to go when the Crow's Eye said, "A king must have a wife, to give him heirs. Brother, I have need of you. Will you go to Slaver's Bay and bring my love to me?" (AFFC, The Reaver).  The 'him' in question could then refer to 'a king,' which is Euron himself as self-styled 'storm king.'

To my mind, however, the most interesting choice of words is not 'worthy of him,' but 'to make an heir'.  How does one 'make an heir'?  I don't think straightforward marriage, sex and childbirth is what Euron has in mind -- I think @chrisdaw's answer is more on the right track.  

Remember Varamyr's prologue, wherein 'a second life fit for a king' is a wolf, Ghost to be exact, whom Varamyr has fantasized stealing from Jon.  Bearing in mind the pun on 'heir' with 'hair' (think of Lann 'stealing into' Casterly Rock in order to 'brighten his hair/s'), we're talking about one man stealing another man's skinchanging legacy, which is figuratively like slipping into his fur coat in his stead, in other words a coat of hairs!  

Symbolically, this transference of power has already been enacted by Euron stealing Blacktyde's 'sable coat', or even shown to us as early as the Prologue in which Waymar's sable coat is described as a 'crowning glory...' -- i.e. 'fit hairs for a king', he he! -- 'soft and black as sin'... Insofar as the coat and sword are the trappings of a king, they are coveted by the other two brothers.  Take a look at how the personified trees and the personified wind in the Prologue and Euron's chapter try to strip the sable coat off Waymar and Euron respectively. There is a tug-of-war going on over that 'coat' figuratively!  Notice the coloring -- Waymar's black coat ends up slashed in 12 places with the red of his blood, so that makes him either a 'red dragon' or a 'black dragon' symbolically, depending on your perspective.  This might represent a battle to possess a dragon, as chrisdaw has suggested.

The other phrase of interest in the quotation I've highlighted is that Euron requests Victarion to 'bring my love to me.'  Who or what would you say this 'love' is?  Ultimately, this is unlikely to be Daenerys herself.  Euron like Xaro desires world dominion and the way to do that is to intimidate that world with the ultimate 'weapon of mass destruction,' a dragon.  Here a dragon is even equated with an heir:

Quote

Xaro stroked her fingers reassuringly. "You need not go alone, though. You have seen dark visions in the Palace of Dust, but Xaro has dreamed brighter dreams. I see you happily abed, with our child at your breast. Sail with me around the Jade Sea, and we can yet make it so! It is not too late. Give me a son, my sweet song of joy!"

Give you a dragon, you mean. "I will not wed you, Xaro." (ACOK -- Daenerys V)

Euron is obsessed with possessing / hatching a dragon:

Quote

A Feast for Crows - The Reaver

Euron seated himself and gave his cloak a twitch, so it covered his private parts. "I had forgotten what a small and noisy folk they are, my ironborn. I would bring them dragons, and they shout out for grapes."

"Grapes are real. A man can gorge himself on grapes. Their juice is sweet, and they make wine. What do dragons make?"

"Woe." The Crow's Eye sipped from his silver cup. "I once held a dragon's egg in this hand, brother. This Myrish wizard swore he could hatch it if I gave him a year and all the gold that he required. When I grew bored with his excuses, I slew him. As he watched his entrails sliding through his fingers he said, 'But it has not been a year.'" He laughed. "Cragorn's died, you know."...

 

He regrets letting that egg slip through his fingers.

On 5/21/2017 at 0:20 AM, @Damon_Tor said:

Quote

Based on simple parsing of English, "Him" refers to the Iron Throne, though why he's personifying it I'm not sure.

True.

On 5/21/2017 at 2:19 AM, @hiemal said:

Quote

My best guess would be that it has something to do with

  Reveal hidden contents

Aeron's vision in the Forsaken TWoW chapter of the Drowned God and the other gods of Westeros impaled on the Iron Throne before which, iirc, Euron weds the Bride of Fire.

Could Euron be verbally deifying the Iron Throne as the God of Rape, Murder, and Pillage?

Yes, that's a valid interpretation, in line with the idea of the crown consuming the king (absolute power corrupts absolutely) to the point where a king would be willing to sacrifice his own kin to satisfy the bottomless hunger of the monster:

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Davos V

"Your Grace," said Davos, "the cost . . ."

"I know the cost!  Last night, gazing into that hearth, I saw things in the flames as well. I saw a king, a crown of fire on his brows, burning . . . burning, Davos. His own crown consumed his flesh and turned him into ash. Do you think I need Melisandre to tell me what that means? Or you?" The king moved, so his shadow fell upon King's Landing. "If Joffrey should die . . . what is the life of one bastard boy against a kingdom?"

"Everything," said Davos, softly.

On 5/21/2017 at 4:00 AM, @chrisdaw said:

Quote

He's talking about Drogon. Euron needs a heir of Targaryen blood to sacrifice so that he can second life the dragon. As what happened by accident to Drogo when Rhaego died and he lost his soul, he second lifed Drogon.

Euron has the gist of how it works, that it's what his horn does (dragonbinder. Blood for fire, fire for blood), that he has to sacrifice himself to do it (leap from a tall tower. Cragorn's died, you know. No mortal man may sound me and live) and that he needs a Targaryen child of his blood to do it (bring my wife to me brother, the last of her line). And then he can second life the dragon (fly).

This is the best answer so far!  However, Drogon would be the desired 'heir' skinchanged by 'him' = Euron himself.  I agree he plans to sacrifice Dany with the aim of stealing one of her dragons.

Spoiler

As an analogy, in TWOW Euron intends sacrificing a woman pregnant with his child, together with his priestly brother, in order to gain power

You make a fascinating point, which I haven't seen brought up before, by highlighting for us that a non-Targaryen (Drogo), someone presumably with no Valyrian blood, was able to bond with a dragon!   Pretty impressive, considering the weight placed on such rarefied genetic endowment by Targ-besotted fans who get excited about 'dragon paternity tests' based on the hope oneday of a dragon finally recognising Tyrion as one of their own at which point he 'hops on and goes for a ride'.  So, having Targaryen blood pumping through ones veins may not be as important as sacrificing Targaryen blood in order to skinchange a dragon (dragonbonding is basically skinchanging).  This will have far-reaching implications for the other characters in the saga, greatly extending the number of 'dragon-riding candidates.'  

How exactly do you understand Drogo's soul going into Drogon's egg at Rhaego's expense?  Surely Rhaego's soul went into his own egg, i.e. that of Rhaegal?  Viserys's soul probably went into Viserion's egg at the time of his execution by fire at Vaes Dothrak.

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On 2017-05-21 at 4:00 AM, chrisdaw said:

He's talking about Drogon. Euron needs a heir of Targaryen blood to sacrifice so that he can second life the dragon. As what happened by accident to Drogo when Rhaego died and he lost his soul, he second lifed Drogon.

Euron has the gist of how it works, that it's what his horn does (dragonbinder. Blood for fire, fire for blood), that he has to sacrifice himself to do it (leap from a tall tower. Cragorn's died, you know. No mortal man may sound me and live) and that he needs a Targaryen child of his blood to do it (bring my wife to me brother, the last of her line). And then he can second life the dragon (fly).

I'm inclined to go with this as well.  Dragonbinder may not necessarily bind a dragon to someone's will; but rather bind the soul of the one who blows the horn to the dragon.  A dragon god is born.  I'm not sure what Euron's intent would be in giving the horn to Victarion or what Moqqorro might think is Victarions destiny. 

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Board issues. Anyway in reply to ravenous reader

The 'heir' is Euron's heir, 'worthy' means a heir of the right blood (Targaryen/Dany's) to sacrifice that will allow him to do the second lifing process and the him is 'Drogon'. The sentence reads correctly with those in mind.

Spoiler

Falia is GRRM setting the mode of operation. Happy families until the woman is pregnant and it's sacrifice time. Euron is Kraken blood so sacrificing preggers Falia (he only really needs the child) is likely going to allow him to skin change a Kraken. Skinchange, not second life, a dragon seems to be different in that it can't be skin changed, there's no going back, it's a one way trip, a second lifing. And that's what Euron is coming to grips with when he speaks with Vic, why he muses on Cragorn's death and jumping off a tall tower in that wistful tone, he's coming to terms with the fact he's going to have to commit suicide to try and 'fly'. It seems he didn't know or at least wasn't sure on this before hand.

Viserys is probably in Viserion, as Tyrion will ride Viserion and they'll match up well. Hostile brothers of Dany, one the dragon the other the rider.

Rhaego is in Drogon with Drogo. That's Dany's ending, dying and seconding lifing Drogon, expelling Euron from him (and his stone) and joining with Drogo and Rhaego (3 heads) forever inside the dragon, her true home. The scene the show gave us in place of her HOTU visions. 

And in reply to LynnS

I don't really know, I speculate he's given the horn a secondary function as way of a plot device to get the dragons over to Westeros in some kind of orderly fashion. I don't think on it much because I don't think it really matters all that much down the line as whatever happens with Vic and Brown Ben we will still eventually get to the point where Aegon will ride Rhaegal, Tyrion will be on Viserion and Dany on Drogon until Euron is on top of Storm's End with his horn back and a pregnant Arianne.

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