GRRM's Three-fold Revelation Strategy

[Traverys]

Quote

...it is easier to tell when he’s overplaying a hand and revealing things too early if you don’t actually know going in what will happen. That said, now that I’ve realized his three-fold revelation strategy, I see it in play almost every time. The first, subtle hint for the really astute readers, followed later by the more blatant hint for the less attentive, followed by just spelling it out for everyone else. It’s a brilliant strategy, and highly effective.

--Anne Groell, GRRM's editor

There's been a couple of topics on this in the past but none really concluded on any solid examples. I thought this could be an interesting group project for those that have an interest in analyzing in GRRM's writing style and method. Let's start by defining these steps (loosely):

1. Subtle Hint -- .Commonly a prophecy, dream, vision, etc. I assume there are some instances where this first revelation can be revealed outside of supernatural events, but the idea is that it's vague.
2. Blatant Hint -- Takes the subtle hint from the first revelation and makes it a more material/concrete/literal possibility. Can also be a prophecy, dream, or vision but uses much more specific wording.
3. Spelling it Out -- People seem to interpret this as either a very blatant, edge-of-your-seat hint that something is going to happen or the actual event itself. I lean more towards a blatant hint rather than the event: "It's about to happen... isn't it?"

The idea behind this strategy is that, at minimum, all major amazing and terrible moments of the story are foreshadowed three times with increasing increments of transparency. I personally believe that some of these major events have revelations that build on one another or intersect/share with other events. For example, Patch Face's Red Wedding prophecy could probably be used as the "subtle" revelation for a at least three major shocking moments (Jinglebell's death, Robb's Death, Edmure imprisonment, etc.).

Interestingly, Race for the Iron Throne suggests that possibly the only event that we have no foreshadowing for at all is the assassination of Renly, which I happen to agree with. It's what adds to the shock value of it happening. Who didn't expect the battle to happen under Storm's End the first time they read it?

I think it best if we don't discuss things that haven't had a final outcome yet as then the conversation will just devolve into people arguing TWoW and ADoS theories. So not mummer's dragon, no Azor Ahai, TPtwP, etc.

But anyways, I'll provide a couple of the ones I've come up with and I invite people who are interested to contribute as well.

Template for the lazy:

Quote

1. Subtle --
2. Blatant --
3. Spelling it Out --

 

Lady Stoneheart -- Probably the best example I have to offer.

1. Subtle -- “I dreamt of a roaring river and a woman that was a fish. Dead she drifted, with red tears on her cheeks, but when her eyes did open, oh, I woke from terror."
2. Blatant -- Catelyn Stark rakes her fingers down her face after witnessing Robb's death and following through with her threat to kill Jinglebell. They also strip her down and throw her body into the river.
3. Spelling it Out -- Arya thinks of her mother before slipping into a dream that she is Nymeria (warging). Nymeria smells her, pursues the scent, finds her body, and drags it out of the water. "Rise, she thought. Rise and eat and run with us." Nymeria then hears/see men on horses with "flapping black and yellow and pink wings." Black (Beric), yellow (Lem), and pink (faded red; Thoros).

The Red Wedding -- This one is iffy to me... I think there may be something to gain from separating individual shockers at the Red Wedding into their own three-fold revelation. But if I had to try and make a "general" trio of revelations I would say the following:

1. Subtle -- "Fool's blood, king's blood, blood on the maiden's thigh, but chains for the guests and chains for the bridegroom, aye aye aye."
2. Blatant -- "A feast of slaughtered corpses holding cups, spoons, and food, with a dead man with a wolf's head sitting on a throne wearing an iron crown."
3. Spelling it Out -- Grey Wind acts aggressively to Lothar Frey and Walder Rivers outside of the twins; Catelyn begs Robb to turn around. Robb has Grey Wind tethered in the stables (chains). Catelyn reminding Walder Frey to serve bread and salt is meant to diffuse this. There's probably a trio of revelations regarding the Freys breaking guest rite that intersects/augments the foreshadowing of the Red Wedding. Things that come to mind are Little and Big Walder playing Come into my Castle (Walder does say mayhaps when welcoming Robb), the Rat Cook, etc.

Westerling/Spicer Betrayal/Complicity 

1. Subtle -- Grey Wind does not like the smell of Rolph Spicer; Catelyn urges Robb to send him away.
2. Blatant -- “Could the Westerlings and Spicers be such great fools as to believe the wolf can defeat the lion?” Every once in a very long while, Lord Tywin Lannister would actually threaten to smile; he never did, but the threat alone was terrible to behold. “The greatest fools are ofttimes more clever than the men who laugh at them," he said...
3. Spelling it Out -- During a small council meeting towards the end of ASoS, Lord, Lady, and Jeyne Westerlings are formally pardoned and Ser Rolph Spicer is raised to Lord and granted Castamere. This is probably the best example of "spelling it out" in how I interpret it. It let's us know that they were involved but we don't get to know any specifics (what their betrayal or complicity actually was) until much later in AFFC.

 

•  

[weirwoodface]

For LSH, there is a point in a Cat chapter -- maybe in the same chapter where Robb draws up his will? Where she thinks to herself that her heart is turning to stone.

[Universal Sword Donor]

2 hours ago, Traverys said:

--Anne Groell, GRRM's editor

There's been a couple of topics on this in the past but none really concluded on any solid examples. I thought this could be an interesting group project for those that have an interest in analyzing in GRRM's writing style and method. Let's start by defining these steps (loosely):

1. Subtle Hint -- .Commonly a prophecy, dream, vision, etc. I assume there are some instances where this first revelation can be revealed outside of supernatural events, but the idea is that it's vague.
2. Blatant Hint -- Takes the subtle hint from the first revelation and makes it a more material/concrete/literal possibility. Can also be a prophecy, dream, or vision but uses much more specific wording.
3. Spelling it Out -- People seem to interpret this as either a very blatant, edge-of-your-seat hint that something is going to happen or the actual event itself. I lean more towards a blatant hint rather than the event: "It's about to happen... isn't it?"

The idea behind this strategy is that, at minimum, all major amazing and terrible moments of the story are foreshadowed three times with increasing increments of transparency. I personally believe that some of these major events have revelations that build on one another or intersect/share with other events. For example, Patch Face's Red Wedding prophecy could probably be used as the "subtle" revelation for a at least three major shocking moments (Jinglebell's death, Robb's Death, Edmure imprisonment, etc.).

Interestingly, Race for the Iron Throne suggests that possibly the only event that we have no foreshadowing for at all is the assassination of Renly, which I happen to agree with. It's what adds to the shock value of it happening. Who didn't expect the battle to happen under Storm's End the first time they read it?

I think it best if we don't discuss things that haven't had a final outcome yet as then the conversation will just devolve into people arguing TWoW and ADoS theories. So not mummer's dragon, no Azor Ahai, TPtwP, etc.

But anyways, I'll provide a couple of the ones I've come up with and I invite people who are interested to contribute as well.

Template for the lazy:

 

Lady Stoneheart -- Probably the best example I have to offer.

1. Subtle -- “I dreamt of a roaring river and a woman that was a fish. Dead she drifted, with red tears on her cheeks, but when her eyes did open, oh, I woke from terror."
2. Blatant -- Catelyn Stark rakes her fingers down her face after witnessing Robb's death and following through with her threat to kill Jinglebell. They also strip her down and throw her body into the river.
3. Spelling it Out -- Arya thinks of her mother before slipping into a dream that she is Nymeria (warging). Nymeria smells her, pursues the scent, finds her body, and drags it out of the water. "Rise, she thought. Rise and eat and run with us." Nymeria then hears/see men on horses with "flapping black and yellow and pink wings." Black (Beric), yellow (Lem), and pink (faded red; Thoros).

The Red Wedding -- This one is iffy to me... I think there may be something to gain from separating individual shockers at the Red Wedding into their own three-fold revelation. But if I had to try and make a "general" trio of revelations I would say the following:

1. Subtle -- "Fool's blood, king's blood, blood on the maiden's thigh, but chains for the guests and chains for the bridegroom, aye aye aye."
2. Blatant -- "A feast of slaughtered corpses holding cups, spoons, and food, with a dead man with a wolf's head sitting on a throne wearing an iron crown."
3. Spelling it Out -- Grey Wind acts aggressively to Lothar Frey and Walder Rivers outside of the twins; Catelyn begs Robb to turn around. Robb has Grey Wind tethered in the stables (chains). Catelyn reminding Walder Frey to serve bread and salt is meant to diffuse this. There's probably a trio of revelations regarding the Freys breaking guest rite that intersects/augments the foreshadowing of the Red Wedding. Things that come to mind are Little and Big Walder playing Come into my Castle (Walder does say mayhaps when welcoming Robb), the Rat Cook, etc.

Westerling/Spicer Betrayal/Complicity 

1. Subtle -- Grey Wind does not like the smell of Rolph Spicer; Catelyn urges Robb to send him away.
2. Blatant -- “Could the Westerlings and Spicers be such great fools as to believe the wolf can defeat the lion?” Every once in a very long while, Lord Tywin Lannister would actually threaten to smile; he never did, but the threat alone was terrible to behold. “The greatest fools are ofttimes more clever than the men who laugh at them," he said...
3. Spelling it Out -- During a small council meeting towards the end of ASoS, Lord, Lady, and Jeyne Westerlings are formally pardoned and Ser Rolph Spicer is raised to Lord and granted Castamere. This is probably the best example of "spelling it out" in how I interpret it. It let's us know that they were involved but we don't get to know any specifics (what their betrayal or complicity actually was) until much later in AFFC.

The Joffrey plot to kill Bran ranks up there as well

[Traverys]

2 hours ago, weirwoodface said:

For LSH, there is a point in a Cat chapter -- maybe in the same chapter where Robb draws up his will? Where she thinks to herself that her heart is turning to stone.

I think I see where you're coming from and know the quote you are talking about. The second time I read ASoS I underlined it like 3 times! I was like woah, hindsight is 20/20.

While I've laid out a pretty strong case for a threefold foreshadowing about Catelyn being ressurected, we don't definitively connect the dots between her and her new LS alias until much later. I'll have to think on it, but surely the quote about her heart feeling like stone would be the subtle clue. Second foreshadowing may be in one of the quotes about her and her band of outlaws... I'd have to pull up the chapters. I have an intuition that Merret's epilogue chapter will have the "spelling it out" somewhere on the road before he reaches the meeting spot.

Good catch!

1 hour ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

The Joffrey plot to kill Bran ranks up there as well

 

I figure most things will, but I don't recall there being any overt suspicion until someone flat out says Joffrey did it. There was so much finger pointing and speculation, even between the Lannisters. If someone else thinks there is foreshadowing, I'd say share it with us. I'm on ASoS and I didn't catch anything at all and I'm reading very carefully this time around.

Ultimate Goal for this little project of mine: I figure once we get one or two sets of three going from several characters it would enable people to try and tie it in with the future books. I'd be excited to try and map out new ones while reading TWoW for the first time.

When I have the time to search, I'm particularly curious about revelations leading up to the conclusions of:

• Lysa having poisoned Jon Arryn -- I feel like there's a connection to be made about revelations concerning warding Sweetrobin, a threatening statement about people that would try and take her kid away, and people that stand between her and those she loves. My memory's rough, I'll have to pull up the chapters.
• Daenerys hatching dragons -- Did anyone really think she was just gonna burn up at the end? I certainly didn't. So, there had to be some kind of small hints leading up to the event.
• Jon Snow's murder -- no idea where to start
• Tywin's death -- Oberyn's comment that Tywin will not live forever
• Oberyn's death -- big maybe on this one. Worth exploring
• Ned Stark's death -- Subtle revelation would be the Starks finding the direwolf with an antler impaling it in chapter one. I'm on the fence about the other two.
• Sansa's marriage to Willas interrupted -- she thinks about how she is supposed to keep it quiet, names the people who know and thinks "... and Dontos, but he's not important." (not exact quote)
• Sansa's hairnet -- should be an easy start; prophecy about a girl with snakes in her hair dripping venom would be the subtle.
• Daenery's sacking Astapor -- She notes all the nobility and their children on balconies wanting to see her dragons when she's going to trade Drogon. She wonders if any of them will have children. That's probably the "spelling it out."
• Quentyn's death --
• Robert Baratheon's death -- a big maybe
• Frey's breaking guest right --
• and more I'm not thinking of,I'm sure.

[hiemal]

Hmmm- with Balon's death we have Patchface's young fish/old fish bit and then we have the Ghost of High Heart's vision. Subtle and blatant, but nothing spells it out. Yet.

 

[Lord Varys]

There are a lot of things there, and prophecies are actually the more blatantly obvious hints.

The really subtle things are little pieces of information that can be put together if you think about them.

Stuff like Sandor and Joffrey (and Robert) talking about killing Bran. Walder Frey and Maester Colemon talking about the quarrel between Jon and Lysa, and Robert becoming Stannis' ward (and not Tywin's) in combination with Lysa's own murderous rage when Cat suggests to take her son as a ward (revealing who the true murderer of Jon Arryn was back in AGoT). Renly pointing out that he would have made a lot of money had Tyrion been there and (as usual) backed Jaime in the lists (revealing that Littlefinger is lying about the dagger).

This threefold thing only seems to be used when there are conspiracies and plots involved, not stuff that's pretty evident. There are things like Aegon's true identity, the Mandon Moore plot, or Ned's execution where we as of yet have only been given subtle clues.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

3 hours ago, Traverys said:

• Subtle Hint -- .Commonly a prophecy, dream, vision, etc. I assume there are some instances where this first revelation can be revealed outside of supernatural events, but the idea is that it's vague.
• Blatant Hint -- Takes the subtle hint from the first revelation and makes it a more material/concrete/literal possibility. Can also be a prophecy, dream, or vision but uses much more specific wording.
• Spelling it Out -- People seem to interpret this as either a very blatant, edge-of-your-seat hint that something is going to happen or the actual event itself. I lean more towards a blatant hint rather than the event: "It's about to happen... isn't it?"

Nah, if it's "spelled out for everyone", then it's the fact itself. So it's an undead Cat Stark sentencing Merrett Frey to death, it's the minstrels at the gallery with crossbows instead of lutes.

Littlefinger was exposed as a big fat liar this way. Someone's remark at the Hand's tourney about how Tyrion would have bet on Jaime (contradicting LF's story), Tyrion's "I never bet against family", and, well, there's Littlefinger's knife at Ned's throat which kinda brings the point across.

[Cridefea]

GRRM said 

Quote

[GRRM is asked about Sansa misremembering the name of Joffrey's sword.]

The Lion's Paw / Lion's Tooth business, on the other hand, is intentional. A small touch of the unreliable narrator. I was trying to establish that the memories of my viewpoint characters are not infallible. Sansa is simply remembering it wrong. A very minor thing (you are the only one to catch it to date), but it was meant to set the stage for a much more important lapse in memory. You will see, in A STORM OF SWORDS and later volumes, that Sansa remembers the Hound kissing her the night he came to her bedroom... but if you look at the scene, he never does. That will eventually mean something, but just now it's a subtle touch, something most of the readers may not even pick up on.

so:

1. Subtle -- Lion's Paw/Lion's Tooth
2. Blatant -- the unkiss
3. Spelling it Out -- Sansa memory will affect the event (??)

[Traverys]

5 hours ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Nah, if it's "spelled out for everyone", then it's the fact itself. So it's an undead Cat Stark sentencing Merrett Frey to death, it's the minstrels at the gallery with crossbows instead of lutes.

Littlefinger was exposed as a big fat liar this way. Someone's remark at the Hand's tourney about how Tyrion would have bet on Jaime (contradicting LF's story), Tyrion's "I never bet against family", and, well, there's Littlefinger's knife at Ned's throat which kinda brings the point across.

I would need to see examples of why there is no third example of foreshadowing before the actual event. I've provided three reasonable examples where having a third revelation appears to work. Admittedly the Spicer's Complicity and Lady Stoneheart being reborn are stronger than the Red Wedding example. I'm not opposed to the idea, but need to see this theory at work before I can start to accept it. 

5 hours ago, Cridefea said:

GRRM said 

so:

1. Subtle -- Lion's Paw/Lion's Tooth
2. Blatant -- the unkiss
3. Spelling it Out -- Sansa memory will affect the event (??)

Yeah, that's why it's problematic to try and map out what will happen when we don't even know how the pattern looks for things that already happened.

But to go on a tangent and give an opinion, I always figured it will affect Sansa's response to Sandor if she runs into him again. At this point, he's (ironically!) the closest thing to the knight of her dreams in comparison to other men she's had social relatonships with. We're never given a reason why she misremembers the night in her room during the battle, so we have to develop an opinion. It may lead to Sandor being entirely confused and suspicious of how she approaches him in the future. She remembers a kiss and he remembers debating whether he should rape her bloody or not (granted this is probably a violent exaggeration on his part, but maybe not).

6 hours ago, hiemal said:

Hmmm- with Balon's death we have Patchface's young fish/old fish bit and then we have the Ghost of High Heart's vision. Subtle and blatant, but nothing spells it out. Yet.

 

Good one! The albino midget woman (why can't I remember what they call her?) has the vision about a man without a face (faceless man) on a bridge as well. I'll take a closer look at this when I get the chance.

6 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

There are a lot of things there, and prophecies are actually the more blatantly obvious hints.

The really subtle things are little pieces of information that can be put together if you think about them.

Stuff like Sandor and Joffrey (and Robert) talking about killing Bran. Walder Frey and Maester Colemon talking about the quarrel between Jon and Lysa, and Robert becoming Stannis' ward (and not Tywin's) in combination with Lysa's own murderous rage when Cat suggests to take her son as a ward (revealing who the true murderer of Jon Arryn was back in AGoT). Renly pointing out that he would have made a lot of money had Tyrion been there and (as usual) backed Jaime in the lists (revealing that Littlefinger is lying about the dagger).

This threefold thing only seems to be used when there are conspiracies and plots involved, not stuff that's pretty evident. There are things like Aegon's true identity, the Mandon Moore plot, or Ned's execution where we as of yet have only been given subtle clues.

Definitely a good points, as always. Now I'm frustrated that GRRM and his editor for not elaborating on this point! But who can blame the man for wanting to keep the pattern he weaves mysterious? Her probably asked his editor to cease and desist after that quote.

My personal opinion is that, with the amount of shock and tension the series throws at you, foreshadowing becomes necessary or it starts to feel very artificial. Knowing that turning that page is going to inevitably lead to something unexpected or unforeseen as a possibility is boring when it's the only method employed. It may help to state that I'm coming from a writer's perspective. Someone like GRRM that wants his story to have a lot of dramatic spikes (both positive an negative) in the narrative has to have things build up to them.

I think the biggest issue with trying to distinguish between foreshadowing and default storybuilding/weaving is that I've already read the books a few times. I know what's going to happen, so I pick up on every little detail that's shared that contributes to our understanding of major events. However, not everything mentioned prior to an event that contributes to our knowledge or understanding foreshadows it. For example, we learn that Tullies have a custom of sending their dead down a river before the Red Wedding, but that doesn't mean it foreshadows what the Frey's end up doing to Catelyn. Instead, our glimpse into Tully funerals is worldbuilding information that allows us to understand why their treatment of her corpse is mocking.

I'll try poking around the net/tumblr/reddit some more and see if anyone else has made any developments. I see analyses (character, chapter, and more) mention this threefold revelation concept, but I have yet to find anyone that actually chart or list any of it out.

[ravenous reader]

'Threefold' -- I'm glad the editor thinks there are 'only three'...

Sometimes there are 300 subtle hints without any blatant or confirmatory!

[bent branch]

7 hours ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Nah, if it's "spelled out for everyone", then it's the fact itself. So it's an undead Cat Stark sentencing Merrett Frey to death, it's the minstrels at the gallery with crossbows instead of lutes.

Littlefinger was exposed as a big fat liar this way. Someone's remark at the Hand's tourney about how Tyrion would have bet on Jaime (contradicting LF's story), Tyrion's "I never bet against family", and, well, there's Littlefinger's knife at Ned's throat which kinda brings the point across.

Agreed that when it's spelled out for everyone, that IS the reveal.

[Seams]

12 hours ago, Traverys said:

Interestingly, Race for the Iron Throne suggests that possibly the only event that we have no foreshadowing for at all is the assassination of Renly, which I happen to agree with. It's what adds to the shock value of it happening. Who didn't expect the battle to happen under Storm's End the first time they read it?

I'll take that as a challenge. I know there is a reference to Renly as a stranger the first time Sansa sees him. The Stranger is a death archetype. Granted, this doesn't tell us that he is going to die - Ser Barristan and Ser Ilyn are the other strangers in the same scene, so we don't yet know their fates. Maybe being a stranger means that a person causes death for others. I believe there are references to Renly as a ghost, however, and that is his ongoing role in the story after he dies. But we should look for mentions of shadows in connection with Renly - those would probably be hints about his murder.

8 hours ago, Traverys said:

When I have the time to search, I'm particularly curious about revelations leading up to the conclusions of:

• Jon Snow's murder -- no idea where to start

Here's a passage from AGoT I came across earlier today, while researching something else. Mormont has just given Jon the sword Longclaw:

He is not my father. The thought leapt unbidden to Jon’s mind. Lord Eddard Stark is my father. I will not forget him, no matter how many swords they give me.

At the end of ADwD, Jon will be "given" many swords by his Night's Watch brothers.

But I suspect this interesting search for foreshadowing will be harder than GRRM's editor has led us to believe. The other day, someone posted a query about the three squires that beat up Howland Reed in the Dunk & Egg story. They are described by their sigils only, but the sigils can pretty quickly be deciphered as representing Frey, Haigh and Blount. Ser Boros Blount (who is the only named Blount in the series) is a near anagram for Roose Bolton. I think the three squires may foreshadow the attack on Robb Stark at the Red Wedding.

I am still spotting things on re-reads that I can't believe have been sitting there in plain sight all along. GRRM put a lot of thought and preparation into the symbolism as well as plot details before he started writing the prose, I think.

[Lollygag]

Some for Jon's attack.

ADWD Jon II:

Jon found Slynt breaking his fast in the common room. Ser Alliser Thorne was with him, and several of their cronies. They were laughing about something when Jon came down the steps with Iron Emmett and Dolorous Edd, and behind them Mully, Horse, Red Jack Crabb, Rusty Flowers, and Owen the Oaf. Three-Finger Hobb was ladling out porridge from his kettle. Queen's men, king's men, and black brothers sat at their separate tables, some bent over bowls of porridge, others filling their bellies with fried bread and bacon. Jon saw Pyp and Grenn at one table, Bowen Marsh at another. The air smelled of smoke and grease, and the clatter of knives and spoons echoed off the vaulted ceiling.

Bowen Marsh strongly protests Slynt’s execution. In this scene, Slynt, Thorne & Co are at one table, Jon’s friends at another table, and Marsh is by himself. Marsh joins Slynt, Thorne & Co in protesting. Slynt’s execution is what pushed Marsh, previously trying to maintain neutrality, to the Anti-Jon side.

ADWD Jon IV:

Careful of the rats, my lord." Dolorous Edd led Jon down the steps, a lantern in one hand. "They make an awful squeal if you step on them. My mother used to make a similar sound when I was a boy. She must have had some rat in her, now that I think of it. Brown hair, beady little eyes, liked cheese. Might be she had a tail too, I never looked to see."

All of Castle Black was connected underground by a maze of tunnels that the brothers called the wormways. It was dark and gloomy underneath the earth, so the wormways were little used in summer, but when the winter winds began to blow and the snows began to fall, the tunnels became the quickest way to move about the castle. The stewards were making use of them already. Jon saw candles burning in several wall niches as they made their way along the tunnel, their footsteps echoing ahead of them.

Bowen Marsh was waiting at a junction where four wormways met. With him he had Wick Whittlestick, tall and skinny as a spear. "These are the counts from three turns ago," Marsh told Jon, offering him a thick sheaf of papers, "for comparison with our present stores. Shall we start with the granaries?"

As they descend underground, Edd warns Jon of rats. They’re meeting Bowen Marsh and Wick Whittlestick.

ADWD Jon XI:

"Lord Bowen, you shall collect the tolls. The gold and silver, the amber, the torques and armbands and necklaces. Sort it all, count it, see that it reaches Eastwatch safely."

"Yes, Lord Snow," said Bowen Marsh.

And Jon thought, "Ice," she said, "and daggers in the dark. Blood frozen red and hard, and naked steel." His sword hand flexed. The wind was rising.

We’ll see on this, but I expect Marsh was paid to remove Jon, though the timing of the attack was an act of passion. Marsh brought up repeatedly that there wasn’t enough money to buy sufficient food, and it was money for food for which Bowen Marsh was paid. Such an arrangement would add yet another reason why Marsh felt he needed to remove Jon “for the Watch”.

 

[Amris]

Daenerys' hatching of dragons:

- Subtle hint:

Dany II in GoT: Dany thinks 'there are no more dragons' but then dreams of waking the dragon. Subtle insofar as she hasn't even gotten the eggs at this point nor have dragon eggs been mentioned in the story at all yet.

- blatant:

Illyrio gives the three dragon eggs to Dany (later in that same Dany II chapter ). Obvious Chekov's gun after the 'subtle hint' had made clear living dragons existed once.

- spelling it out:

In Dany's second-last chapter of GoT (the last one before the pyre) she first has a crassly prophetic dragon dream with the recurrent refrain 'don't want to wake the dragon' turning into 'wake the dragon' and her burning up from inside and becoming a dragon. Once back awake she takes a dragon egg into her bed which is hot to the touch with something stretching and winding inside it.

 

[Seams]

On 5/21/2017 at 1:07 PM, Traverys said:

Interestingly, Race for the Iron Throne suggests that possibly the only event that we have no foreshadowing for at all is the assassination of Renly, which I happen to agree with. It's what adds to the shock value of it happening. Who didn't expect the battle to happen under Storm's End the first time they read it?

I hadn't forgotten about this, and I think I just found one of the hints while I was looking for something else.

The foreshadowing is part of the Hand's Tourney. Others in this forum have established that the match-ups in the tournaments give direct and indirect hints about who will defeat whom in battle or other events in the story; sometimes a bannerman loses a joust, foreshadowing something that will happen with his liege lord; other times the outcome for a son of a House represents the fate of the House as a whole. But sometimes it's a one-on-one foreshadowing: Ser Loras defeats Robar Royce in the tournament and later kills him when he believes that Royce failed in his duties as part of Renly's rainbow guard.

At the Hand's Tourney, Renly is defeated by Sandor Clegane. How does that foreshadow Renly's death by shadow baby? You have to consider Sansa's description of the Hound at two points in the chapter (AGoT, Sansa II): he "seemed to take form out of the night" and he was "a voice from the night, a shadow."

Further foreshadowing: When Renly is knocked off his horse in the tournament, his fall is so violent and the sound of his head hitting the ground so loud that the crowd gasps, thinking he has been killed. But he stands up and the crowd cheers - sort of like the cheering and rallying to the side of Renly's ghost at the Blackwater. I think this "resurrection" at the tournament foreshadows a lot of the Renly-as-ghost imagery we will see from time to time later in the books.

[Traverys]

On 6/11/2017 at 9:50 PM, Seams said:

I hadn't forgotten about this, and I think I just found one of the hints while I was looking for something else.

The foreshadowing is part of the Hand's Tourney. Others in this forum have established that the match-ups in the tournaments give direct and indirect hints about who will defeat whom in battle or other events in the story; sometimes a bannerman loses a joust, foreshadowing something that will happen with his liege lord; other times the outcome for a son of a House represents the fate of the House as a whole. But sometimes it's a one-on-one foreshadowing: Ser Loras defeats Robar Royce in the tournament and later kills him when he believes that Royce failed in his duties as part of Renly's rainbow guard.

At the Hand's Tourney, Renly is defeated by Sandor Clegane. How does that foreshadow Renly's death by shadow baby? You have to consider Sansa's description of the Hound at two points in the chapter (AGoT, Sansa II): he "seemed to take form out of the night" and he was "a voice from the night, a shadow."

Further foreshadowing: When Renly is knocked off his horse in the tournament, his fall is so violent and the sound of his head hitting the ground so loud that the crowd gasps, thinking he has been killed. But he stands up and the crowd cheers - sort of like the cheering and rallying to the side of Renly's ghost at the Blackwater. I think this "resurrection" at the tournament foreshadows a lot of the Renly-as-ghost imagery we will see from time to time later in the books.

Me either! I have had to put this thread on the back burner though.

I'm really intrigued by the notion of tourney match ups! What an interesting area to explore!

Otherwise, nice catches on the wording of his tourney tilts. I've had to take a step back and try to distinguish between what is foreshadowing and what is dramatic irony that GRRM has thrown in for people that are rereading. It's a really fuzzy line... to me at least.

I put off rereading (re-re-re-rereading?) the Red Wedding chapters of ASoS (Catelyn... ) and started reading another book. When I finally did I highlighted all the little things people say that make me just slap my forehead. For example, Walder Frey talking about how at the wedding "the red will flow," etc. There's no reason for me to think it's anything other than wine during my first reading, but it adds a lot of dramatic irony during a reread.

It's intelligent writing that makes me wonder if I want to punch or hug GRRM.

[Night Train to Kathmandu]

The connection between Bran, Robb, and Robert Strong.  It has yet to be confirmed but there are strong hints to it.

Subtle - Bran's vision.  He saw the stone giant looming over his family.  Thick, black blood underneath the helm.

Blatant - Robb was beheaded.  Joffrey later suggests having Robb's head sent to him.  Heads are dipped in tar to keep them fresh.  Tar is black and thick. 

Spelling it Out - Gregor's skull was sent to the Martells.  Bigger than normal but not as big as Wun Wundar Weg's skull.  Robert never takes off his helm. 

Robert Strong is wearing Robb Stark's head.

[Walda]

Subtle Hint:

Quote

“You must train them. The kennelmaster will have nothing to do with these monsters, I promise you that. And the gods help you if you neglect them, or brutalize them, or train them badly. These are not dogs to beg for treats and slink off at a kick. A direwolf will rip a man’s arm off his shoulder as easily as a dog will kill a rat. Are you sure you want this?”

(A Game of Thrones, Ch.01 Bran I)

Blatant Hint:

Quote

“I told her to run, to go be free, that I didn’t want her anymore. There were other wolves for her to play with, we heard them howling, and Jory said the woods were full of game, so she’d have deer to hunt. Only she kept following, and finally we had to throw rocks. I hit her twice. She whined and looked at me and I felt so ’shamed, but it was right, wasn’t it? The queen would have killed her.”

(A Game of Thrones, Ch.22 Arya II)

Spelling it Out:

Quote

“I heard how this hellbitch walked into a village one day … a market day, people everywhere, and she walks in bold as you please and tears a baby from his mother’s arms. When the tale reached Lord Mooton, him and his sons swore they’d put an end to her. They tracked her to her lair with a pack of wolfhounds, and barely escaped with their skins. Not one of those dogs came back, not one.”

(A Clash of Kings, Ch.05 Arya II)

[Castellan]

Brienne being descended from Duncan is an interesting case. I think GRRM resisted when an interviewer asked him to name Dunk's progeny (because GRRM has stated Dunk had some/one) and he said something like Well I gave a big clue! 

The big clue would be the shield. I think that's a pretty big clue, not a subtle hint. So were there any hints before then? There is her physical appearance and way of thinking (In her POV chapters) and social awkwardness and sense of not belonging - but I don't know if anyone would go from that to 'must be a descendent of Dunk'.

Once you get the big hint of course, then you see other aspects such as that the act of having to repaint a defunct shield itself echoes Dunk's experiences (and its a woman painter too!); her having to traipse round Maidenpool seeking help is a bit like Dunk trying to get organised and recognised at the Ashford Tourney;  and the night spent with hedge knights who cause her to replace the shield is a sort of tribute to Dunk.