If dany becomes queen, what would she change?

[Yucef Menaerys]

15 minutes ago, The Doctor's Consort said:

Even in Westeros 12 years old are still children. Also do you really believe that the unsullied would had asked about the child's age?

Her actions were to order the death of children because of who their parent were and how rich they were.

As for the second part you are describing tyrany.

And then Aerys would had ordered the deaths of Benjen, Stannis and Renly.

Not true. He thought that Aegon was tptwp, after he proved himself wrong about him being the savior, and only looked for a new baby making maschine only after Elia wouldn't had been able to have more. In a simple way, he had no way to know if his actions would had a good outcome. Even if he was right he shouldn't had run.

At least she ordered them not to kill l children under twelve, better than other people who would have killed even the babies, like Robert Baratheon who wanted to kill dany who was a baby after the war, he was also pleased that baby Aegon was butchered, you have to understand dany is far better than most of these Westerosi warlords

There's zero evidence that Aerys would have demanded the death of Benjen, Stannis and Renly, and before he will get the chance to do that he will no longer be king because Rhaegar would have deposed him, Rhaegar wanted to depose immediately after the rebellion as he told Jamie. 

Rhaegar is a targaryen(fire) Lyanna is a stark (ice) I think he surmised that TPTWP will only be of the union of ice and fire, and Lyanna loved him as well, I mean who wouldn't ? The dashing silver prince and heir to the entire realm, that's every maiden's dream, so she's not a just a baby making machine to him.  And I believe that if lyanna hated Rhaegar she would've told Ned in Tower of joy, and Ned wouldn't have such a high opinion of Rhaegar if he knew that Rhaegar abducted his sister.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

11 minutes ago, Yucef Menaerys said:

and i don't think the starks would declare war against the IT as that would be extremely foolish

Aerys just killed Brandon and Rickard and ordered the death of Eddard and you think the North would have done nothing? The only way any of your plans work is if Jon Arryn does what you suggested instead of what he did. The decision Jon Arryn made was what lead to the rebels winning. Robert and Ned had to call their banners so they could win the war.

It's like with the benefit of hindsight your trying to rewrite the Rebellion so Aerys can win. 

[Yucef Menaerys]

11 minutes ago, The Doctor's Consort said:

A second son wouldn't had been enough for Tywin. Also without the war Dany wouldn't had been alive.

Well, Tywin will know that Rhaegar obviously wouldn't set aside his wife for Cersei, that is against tradition and would've resulted in tension if not war with the dornish, he would have to settle for Viserys instead. Why wouldn't dany be born? Queen Rhaella was pregnant with dany before the rebellion started as she gave birth just immediately after she fled kings landing, that was just after the trident.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

5 minutes ago, Yucef Menaerys said:

Robert Baratheon who wanted to kill dany who was a baby after the war

There is no proof about that. He sent Stannis to arrest them, not kill them. Heck even Tywin had told that Robert wouldn't had killed children.

5 minutes ago, Yucef Menaerys said:

he was also pleased that baby Aegon was butchered,

It made sence to feel relief when your enemy and his family die it wasn't a good thing but it made sense.

5 minutes ago, Yucef Menaerys said:

you have to understand dany is far better than most of these Westerosi warlords

I don't have to do anything. And no I don't think that using wmd, collective punishment, genocide and torture is a good thing.

5 minutes ago, Yucef Menaerys said:

There's zero evidence that Aerys would have demanded the death of Benjen, Stannis and Renly, and before he will get the chance to do that he will no longer be king because Rhaegar would have deposed him, Rhaegar wanted to depose immediately after the rebellion as he told Jamie. 

Seeing how he ordered the deaths of Robert and Ned for no reason it doesn't take much to see how he would had done it. Also Rhaegar was no where to be found.

7 minutes ago, Yucef Menaerys said:

and Lyanna loved him as well,

How do you know that?

7 minutes ago, Yucef Menaerys said:

Rhaegar is a targaryen(fire) Lyanna is a stark (ice) I think he surmised that TPTWP will only be of the union of ice and fire, and Lyanna loved him as well, I mean who wouldn't ? The dashing silver prince and heir to the entire realm, that's every maiden's dream, so she's not a just a baby making machine to him.  And I believe that if lyanna hated Rhaegar she would've told Ned in Tower of joy, and Ned wouldn't have such a high opinion of Rhaegar if he knew that Rhaegar abducted his sister.

Ned thought that Rhaegar wasn't going to brothels that doesn't mean that he had a high opinion about him.

[Yucef Menaerys]

4 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Aerys just killed Brandon and Rickard and ordered the death of Eddard and you think the North would have done nothing? The only way any of your plans work is if Jon Arryn does what you suggested instead of what he did. The decision Jon Arryn made was what lead to the rebels winning. Robert and Ned had to call their banners so they could win the war.

It's like with the benefit of hindsight your trying to rewrite the Rebellion so Aerys can win. 

The northerners will fume and threaten war but that is all, they have no chance to win against the crown, the lannister alone were able to defeat the stars during WOT5K, talk less of a war with the reach, dorne, crownlands, maybe even the westerlands.

I always got the impression that the rebels won only because GRRM wanted it that way, but I don't realistically see how the rebels would win given that the reach declared for the crown, Rhaegar went to the trident with 45000 men, imagine if the Tyrell forces had abandoned the foolish siege of stormsend and went to the trident together with Rhaegar,  they would've had an army a hundred thousand strong, an easy victory for the crown,  the rebels would easily be crushed by such numbers, but GRRM wanted Robert to win the rebellion so he made the Tyrell army wait in stormsend like sitting ducks.

[Yucef Menaerys]

13 minutes ago, The Doctor's Consort said:

There is no proof about that. He sent Stannis to arrest them, not kill them. Heck even Tywin had told that Robert wouldn't had killed children.

It made sence to feel relief when your enemy and his family die it wasn't a good thing but it made sense.

I don't have to do anything. And no I don't think that using wmd, collective punishment, genocide and torture is a good thing.

Seeing how he ordered the deaths of Robert and Ned for no reason it doesn't take much to see how he would had done it. Also Rhaegar was no where to be found.

How do you know that?

Ned thought that Rhaegar wasn't going to brothels that doesn't mean that he had a high opinion about him.

There's also no proof that Robert sent stannis to arrest them, and what do you think he would've have done after arresting them? He would've had them executed, the child killer. He also ordered the death of dany in GOT who was a child at the time and we keep hiring from dany how they were always one step ahead of the usurper's hired knife during her childhood.

Really? Well stop criticizing dany because it also made sense when she ordered the death of the masters because they were her enemies.

Rhaegar was busy trying to save the world by getting lyanna with child.

For a man who was supposed to have kidnapped and raped ned's sister I'd say that seems like having a high opinion of him. And we never not once see Ned being critical of Rhaegar.

 

[Ralphis Baratheon]

18 minutes ago, Yucef Menaerys said:

The northerners will fume and threaten war but that is all, they have no chance to win against the crown, the lannister alone were able to defeat the stars during WOT5K, talk less of a war with the reach, dorne, crownlands, maybe even the westerlands.

The North went to war when Eddard Stark was murdered so we can assume they would have went to war if Rickard and Brandon were killed. Wait a minute! No we don't have to assume we know they would because when Ned called the Northern banners they fought for him remember? Good thing Jon Arryn enabled him to do so don't you think?

 

18 minutes ago, Yucef Menaerys said:

I always got the impression that the rebels won only because GRRM wanted it that way, but I don't realistically see how the rebels would win given that the reach declared for the crown, Rhaegar went to the trident with 45000 men, imagine if the Tyrell forces had abandoned the foolish siege of stormsend and went to the trident together with Rhaegar,  they would've had an army a hundred thousand strong, an easy victory for the crown,  the rebels would easily be crushed by such numbers, but GRRM wanted Robert to win the rebellion so he made the Tyrell army wait in stormsend like sitting ducks.

I honestly don't know how to really respond to this. It happened, the rebels won. Robert crushed Rhaegar in singles combat. Stannis held off the might of the Reach. Ned Stark, The Tullys, Jon Arryn and Robert Baratheon avenged the dead Starks. 

[Boarsbane]

She may try to change a lot of things, but I don't see anything major sticking. Without the dragons, the nobility are stronger than the Targaryens so once she and her dragons were gone, some Hand of the King will just undo whatever pleases him as Tywin did with Aegon V's reforms that tried to give the smallfolk more rights. 

[300 H&H Magnum]

7 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Guest right is a Westerosi custom that is followed by andals as well as the first men. It's not really debatable it's fact. It would mean a huge deal to Jon Arryn as his House words are "As High as Honor." Breaking Guest right is a huge breach in all of Westeros and considered very dishonorable. Wyman Manderly has andal blood and follows the 7 but was still very upset about the Red Wedding that broke Guest right as was most of Westeros not just Houses that are Northern or have blood of the first men.

Jon Arryn chose personal "honor" (more like he was a part of Rickard's conspiracy) over his duties to his king and the realm.  Tywin, Walder, and Roose chose their duties to the realm over guest rights when they took down the young wolf.  The red wedding was a valuable service to the people of the seven kingdoms.  Wyman Manderly violated the taboo of cannibalism just for the personal satisafaction of revenge.  Robb violated his oath in order to do what his heart and his dick wanted him to do.  

Jon Arryn should have turned over Eddard and Robert to his king.  There was no excuse for calling a rebellion.  I am glad that the Arryn family line is about to die out.

No character in the books ever says "oh well the Red Wedding wasn't that big of a deal as it's only a first men custom."

Even Doran Martell takes Guest right seriously. As he tells the Sand Snakes

"Ser Balon is a guest beneath my roof. He has eaten of my bread and salt. I will not do him harm."

The fact that Aerys and who ever sent the raven was mad and or stupid enough to command Jon Arryn to commit a crime by killing his wards that were protected by Guest right instead of say commanding him to send Ned and Robert to the capital gave Jon Arryn little choice in the matter. Aerys was mad and needed to be stopped as even Rhaegar told Jamie "changes will be made" before he left for the Trident. 

False.  Aerys was the king.  Whatever commands he gave to Jon Arryn was the LAW.  That damned Jon Arryn should have obeyed.  I would so love for the Arryn family line to end. 

 

 

[Yucef Menaerys]

57 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

The North went to war when Eddard Stark was murdered so we can assume they would have went to war if Rickard and Brandon were killed. Wait a minute! No we don't have to assume we know they would because when Ned called the Northern banners they fought for him remember? Good thing Jon Arryn enabled him to do so don't you think?

 

I honestly don't know how to really respond to this. It happened, the rebels won. Robert crushed Rhaegar in singles combat. Stannis held off the might of the Reach. Ned Stark, The Tullys, Jon Arryn and Robert Baratheon avenged the dead Starks. 

The thing is how will the north fight the crown? They call their banners and what then? They try to invade the south and take Kings landing? That's laughable.

Yeah sadly it all happened, ASOIAF is a fictional book, and I understand why George wrote it this way, without Roberts rebellions there would've been no ASOIAF,  but realistically speaking I don't see a way for the rebels to win that war, I'm sure even George will agree, rhaegar had 45000 men at the trident and they lost supposedly because the rebels have more experience than them, and that's only because dorne decided to send half their strength, if they had sent 20000 men instead 0f 10000 it would've been 55000 against 35000 that's assuming the Tyrells are still investing stormsend which they could easily storm and take given how the enemy was starving and they had far superior numbers, it just doesn't make sense realistically for the rebels to win.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

1 hour ago, Yucef Menaerys said:

The thing is how will the north fight the crown? They call their banners and what then? They try to invade the south and take Kings landing? That's laughable.

Do I really have to recap Robert's Rebellion for you? After Ned called his banners he and Jon Arryn married the sisters Tully adding the Tullys to the Stark/Arryn/Baratheon alliance. Lots of Battles were fought, Rhaegar hung out in Dorne with his 14 year old for most of them. Then he showed up at the Trident for the final one and Robert smashed him. There is a lot more to it of course and I'm sure there are plenty of websites that can give a detailed review of what we know about Roberts Rebellion. I can tell you this though Ned called his banners and the North fought for him. 

 

1 hour ago, Yucef Menaerys said:

Yeah sadly it all happened, ASOIAF is a fictional book, and I understand why George wrote it this way, without Roberts rebellions there would've been no ASOIAF,  but realistically speaking I don't see a way for the rebels to win that war, I'm sure even George will agree, rhaegar had 45000 men at the trident and they lost supposedly because the rebels have more experience than them, and that's only because dorne decided to send half their strength, if they had sent 20000 men instead 0f 10000 it would've been 55000 against 35000 that's assuming the Tyrells are still investing stormsend which they could easily storm and take given how the enemy was starving and they had far superior numbers, it just doesn't make sense realistically for the rebels to win.

I believe Dorne sent 10,000 spears in the first Blackfyre rebellion as well. 

At the Trident Rhaegar had 40,000 men a "sizable host" of that was in fact from the Reach. 

[Ralphis Baratheon]

1 hour ago, 300 H&H Magnum said:

 

Robert Arryn is alive and growing stronger. 

[Yucef Menaerys]

13 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Do I really have to recap Robert's Rebellion for you? After Ned called his banners he and Jon Arryn married the sisters Tully adding the Tullys to the Stark/Arryn/Baratheon alliance. Lots of Battles were fought, Rhaegar hung out in Dorne with his 14 year old for most of them. Then he showed up at the Trident for the final one and Robert smashed him. There is a lot more to it of course and I'm sure there are plenty of websites that can give a detailed review of what we know about Roberts Rebellion. I can tell you this though Ned called his banners and the North fought for him. 

 

I believe Dorne sent 10,000 spears in the first Blackfyre rebellion as well. 

At the Trident Rhaegar had 40,000 men a "sizable host" of that was in fact from the Reach. 

My scenerio was assuming arryn will be too scared to fight or if he's being besieged, which means the vale is out of the equation, after that the north stands alone.

Yeah but not the full strength of the Reach,  the Reach can field an army of 70,000, I imagine of rhaegar's army 20,000 were from the crown lands and the other 20,000 are from the stormlands and reach.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

8 minutes ago, Yucef Menaerys said:

My scenerio was assuming arryn will be too scared to fight or if he's being besieged, which means the vale is out of the equation, after that the north stands alone.

The thing is it did happen and Jon Arryn called his banners first. He wasn't too scared and didn't do your plan, he did his own which we know was smart. One more huge thing I forgot to point out which you don't seem to realize is Jon Arryn's nephew and heir Elbert Arryn was killed along with Brandon and Rickard Stark by Aerys which is another reason he called his banners and went to war against him. I know you desperately want Jon Arryn to be some coward or fool but he wasn't, he fought for what he believed was right. A mad King killed his nephew and heir then sent him a raven demanding he kill his foster children and he bravely fought against the Mad kings injustice. 

20 minutes ago, Yucef Menaerys said:

Yeah but not the full strength of the Reach,  the Reach can field an army of 70,000, I imagine of rhaegar's army 20,000 were from the crown lands and the other 20,000 are from the stormlands and reach.

Out of Rhaegar's 40,000 we know 10,000 were Dornish spears. The other 30,000 came from the Crownlands, Stormlands, Riverlands, few from the Vale and the sizable host from the Reach. The Riverlands were pretty split between the loyalist and the rebels. 

[Rhae_Valarie]

I've actually been thinking about this myself a lot lately. There are a lot of small hints in the books and show that Dany won't just be a good ruler, she will change the entire system of government. Otherwise, just like with Egg, the good reforms made will just be undone but the next bad ruler.

personally I think that that Dany Jon and Tyrion are the three heads of the dragon so My theory is that Dany will change Westeros from an absolute monarchy to a country ruled by a council of three rulers. I think this will probably be inspired by Tyrions observations of The Volantene Triarchs. Jon will be King in The North, Dany will sit the Iron Throne and be Queen in the South. Tyrion will be Lord of Casterly Rock, giving him control of the Westerlands. He will then renew his marriage to Sansa, who has control of the Riverlands and Vale. Their union will form a new region of Westeros (central Westeros?) that they will rule over. Though the three heads of the dragon will have control in their own regions they can be checked and balanced by the other two. Imagine, if for every Aerys, there had been a Rhaella and Rhaegar with the power to keep him in check. Under this new system, the peace could be preserved for ages:)

[Hodor the Articulate]

Warm the place up.

[khal drogon]

22 hours ago, John Doe said:

If you think someone who just discovered that burning things is easier than making peace and wants to bring three grown dragons to Westeros as a means to conquer her mad father's crown isn't going to spill a lot of blood on the way, okay. 

 

But regardless, I'm not saying my interpretation is the only correct one, maybe she will turn out to be a good queen and a saviour. We'll see in the next book, no reason to be angry at each other. 

Using hyperboles and faulty interpretations to make her sound one dimensional and then criticising her. It's a very common technique of haters. But it would only make your arguments faulty. If you condemn her burning then you have to condemn Stannis too. You being clearly biased wouldn't strengthen your arguments. I like both Stannis and Dany for their positives and I could see things common between them. Also Dany learns and improves from Astapor to Meereen and even the "Fire and blood" resolution is for further character development.

Also how annoying it would be if someone held the mistakes you made during learning against you ignoring the improvements you have made and claimed you would never be better since you have done a rookie mistake and that makes you can't become better. Your arguments against Dany are that unfair.

[Yucef Menaerys]

18 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

The thing is it did happen and Jon Arryn called his banners first. He wasn't too scared and didn't do your plan, he did his own which we know was smart. One more huge thing I forgot to point out which you don't seem to realize is Jon Arryn's nephew and heir Elbert Arryn was killed along with Brandon and Rickard Stark by Aerys which is another reason he called his banners and went to war against him. I know you desperately want Jon Arryn to be some coward or fool but he wasn't, he fought for what he believed was right. A mad King killed his nephew and heir then sent him a raven demanding he kill his foster children and he bravely fought against the Mad kings injustice. 

Yes Arryn did fight but he and his allies over stepped their position by removing the targaryens from power, they broke their oaths of fealty that they swore to Aegon the conqueror, if Aegon had wanted he could've replaced all the kings of Westeros with others of his choosing but because of his generosity he allowed them to keep their title and this is how they pay him by slaughtering his descendants and removing them from power, they are criminals and oathbreakers who should be punished. I agree that Aerys needed to be removed, but removing the entire targaryen family was going far too much, what the rebels should have done after the trident was to name Viserys king and make one of themselves hand and regent so that the new king will be brought up under their tutelage. I'm sure if the targaryens had won the war they would not have done to the rebels what they did to the targaryens, they would not have deposed and killed all members of house Arryn, Stark, Baratheon and all the other traitors as evidenced by what happened after the Blackfyre rebellion,  the crown mostly just reduced the holdings and lands of some of the houses that fought for Daemon. I will like to see the targaryens do exactly what the traitors did to them after the war to teach them a lesson, house Targaryen is now back in full revenge mode when dany finally lands with her army and dragons she will punish the usurper's dogs just like they deserve, all the houses that fought against house targaryen must be striped of all titles and exiled from westeros maybe even killed since they also killed baby aegon and rhaenys.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

1 hour ago, Yucef Menaerys said:

Yes Arryn did fight but he and his allies over stepped their position by removing the targaryens from power, they broke their oaths of fealty that they swore to Aegon the conqueror, if Aegon had wanted he could've replaced all the kings of Westeros with others of his choosing but because of his generosity he allowed them to keep their title and this is how they pay him by slaughtering his descendants and removing them from power, they are criminals and oathbreakers who should be punished. I agree that Aerys needed to be removed, but removing the entire targaryen family was going far too much, what the rebels should have done after the trident was to name Viserys king and make one of themselves hand and regent so that the new king will be brought up under their tutelage. I'm sure if the targaryens had won the war they would not have done to the rebels what they did to the targaryens, they would not have deposed and killed all members of house Arryn, Stark, Baratheon and all the other traitors as evidenced by what happened after the Blackfyre rebellion,  the crown mostly just reduced the holdings and lands of some of the houses that fought for Daemon. I will like to see the targaryens do exactly what the traitors did to them after the war to teach them a lesson, house Targaryen is now back in full revenge mode when dany finally lands with her army and dragons she will punish the usurper's dogs just like they deserve, all the houses that fought against house targaryen must be striped of all titles and exiled from westeros maybe even killed since they also killed baby aegon and rhaenys.

You sound alike like Viserys.

Aerys murdered Rickard Stark and offended the Gods and broke their laws the way he did it. The Lannisters alone are the ones that are responsible for the deaths of Elia, Aegon and Rhaenys. Jon Arryn  and Ned Stark had nothing to do with it. Aerys murdered Jon Arryn's nephew and heir without a trail. No one was going to take to the Mad King's Throne away without a war. 

Jon Arryn got a raven saying I murdered your heir and you must murder your foster children and break the laws of Guest right. Eddard and Robert were innocent ordering there deaths was wrong and Jon Arryn and the rest of the realm had no reason to think Aerys would stop with there murders.  Aerys brought the ruin of House Targaryen upon him and his family. Even Doran only sent him 10,000 spears after Aerys threatened to harm Elia. Aerys raped and beat his wife for years. No one liked him except Viserys.

If Dany doesn't realize what her father did was wrong then I hope she never sits the Throne. All the people who wronged her are dead, taking it out on there families would be a great injustice and make her no better morally then Tywin Lannister.

 

[Yucef Menaerys]

2 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

You sound alike like Viserys.

Aerys murdered Rickard Stark and offended the Gods and broke their laws the way he did it. The Lannisters alone are the ones that are responsible for the deaths of Elia, Aegon and Rhaenys. Jon Arryn  and Ned Stark had nothing to do with it. Aerys murdered Jon Arryn's nephew and heir without a trail. No one was going to take to the Mad King's Throne away without a war. 

Jon Arryn got a raven saying I murdered your heir and you must murder your foster children and break the laws of Guest right. Eddard and Robert were innocent ordering there deaths was wrong and Jon Arryn and the rest of the realm had no reason to think Aerys would stop with there murders.  Aerys brought the ruin of House Targaryen upon him and his family. Even Doran only sent him 10,000 spears after Aerys threatened to harm Elia. Aerys raped and beat his wife for years. No one liked him except Viserys.

If Dany doesn't realize what her father did was wrong then I hope she never sits the Throne. All the people who wronged her are dead, taking it out on there families would be a great injustice and make her no better morally then Tywin Lannister.

 

Yeah the lannisters were responsible and the Baratheon were please d that babies were murdered in a most brutal way, and let's be honest what do you think Robert would do to baby aegon and rhaenys assuming he captured them alive? I wouldn't put anything past that wannabe child killer, he'd have had them executed as they were a threat to his usurpation of their birthright, so don't blame the lannister alone, and if tywin knew that Robert didn't want children killed and will be furious with him he'd never have done what he did, but he knew Robert for the killer he was and anticipated that he will be pleased with the death of babies, let's not forget this drunken killer also tried repeatedly to have dany and Viserys assassinated. Had Robert punished tywin for killing aegon and rhaenys I will not have chastised him for this.

Elia and aegon and rhaenys were innocent too, they had nothing to do with the killing of Rickard and Brandon Stark,  nothing to do with aerys' insult to house lannister, nothing to do with killing Jon arryn's heir, why did they have to die? You don't even sound apologetic one bit for the murder of these innocent people you are too busy trying to defend your hero Jon arryn and his allies.

You kep mentioning Aerys' crimes and I'm not going to defend him, he was a madman, I don't even understand why people criticize Aerys' I never do, because I know that he was not in his right mind and that he was insane, it's like you have a dog and one day they smash your phone or something you value, you can't blame them, they don't know the worth of that thing to you. Aerys is a victim of his own madness, he should have been deposed and something enter to the Westerosi equivalent of a nursery and get special care, the real younger aerys will never have done what the mad aerys did, the real aerys want to be called aerys the wise, he had gradiose plans to build new cities and upgrade the infrastructure of Westeros.  

I partially agree with your last point but i believe dany must carry out some punitive measures against those houses or she will look weak, she must send a message or else in the future anyone can think he can contest the crown and survive unscathed.