Jump to content

What if joffrey never killed ned stark


snow is the man

Recommended Posts

My theory? Varys has him killed. He can't risk Ned telling Robb or Cat or Edmure or Yohn Royce or whoever about the twincest because that would kickstart the war Varys is trying desperately to stall. 

I actually think Varys/Illyrio might have hired Jaqen to make sure Ned suffered an "accident" on his way to the Wall, but of course Joff screwed all that plan and poor Jaqen found himself chained with some criminals and without his target. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Graydon Hicks said:

random thought though, was ned's execution all joffery? or was petyr whispering in his ear?

I think it's implied that Petyr pointed Joff in that direction. And it makes sense too: Ned was a huge loose end, and he knew that Petyr was a two-faced weasel. Petyr couldn't let word of that reach Cat, or anyone, really. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Graydon Hicks said:

random thought though, was ned's execution all joffery? or was petyr whispering in his ear?

All Joffrey in my opinion. Most others will disagree. The thing is I can't see is how it would be revealed. Joffrey is dead, Janos is dead. Illyn is mute. Petyr would have to mention this to some POV, which seems a really really stupid thing to do.

Frankly the notion that Baelish brought him to court to betray him makes little sense to me. I think he was fine working with him (as he is with most people while it suits his interests) then has to betray him when Ned chooses Stannis and war.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

All Joffrey in my opinion. Most others will disagree. The thing is I can't see is how it would be revealed. Joffrey is dead, Janos is dead. Illyn is mute. Petyr would have to mention this to some POV, which seems a really really stupid thing to do.

Frankly the notion that Baelish brought him to court to betray him makes little sense to me. I think he was fine working with him (as he is with most people while it suits his interests) then has to betray him when Ned chooses Stannis and war.

This.  The letter was explicitly intended to keep the Starks away from KL.  Petyr was fine as Master of Coin, with his eye on becoming Hand, hopefully to Renly with Tyrell backing.  Joffrey was a vicious little nutcase who didn't need encouragement.

He might have spent years brooding about the girl he lost to the North, but he was already moving to marry Lysa. I don't think he expected to see Cat again. Especially not pointing his own knife (?) in his face.  Ned was amusing to torment, but I don't think he was a target until he became a liability.

I think Petyr is a devious, unscrupulous, consummate opportunist, but he's pragmatic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Graydon Hicks said:

still hate that overly well dressed weasel. i hope someone sticks a sharp knife somewhere sensitive on him , and twists slowly.

He's the most sharply dressed weasel in Westeros ;)

anyone comes near Petyr with a sharp knife, they might be in for a nasty surprise. He strikes me as someone who might be very dangerous at close quarters with short blades.

*waves little mockingbird banner* Anyway, I'm rooting for him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

im picturing a scene from a fanfiction i read, in which jon arryn didnt get poisoned, robert begins losing weight, a few other things, but thats besides the point. jon discovers that petyr has been stealing so much, keeping the ealm in debt while he lines his pockets, investing in businesses, buying up debts for blackmail, squirreling it away in his private accounts. execution worthy offenses. on his arrest he demands trail be combat. so they hold it at the docks. petyr walks in in wearing heavy armor, carrying a great big weapon, demands to face jon's champion. and jon pulls a aerys. instead of a man, he proclaims his champion is the sea, then drops the weighted littlefinger through a trap door into the harbour.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, SeaWitch said:

This.  The letter was explicitly intended to keep the Starks away from KL.  Petyr was fine as Master of Coin, with his eye on becoming Hand, hopefully to Renly with Tyrell backing.  Joffrey was a vicious little nutcase who didn't need encouragement.

He might have spent years brooding about the girl he lost to the North, but he was already moving to marry Lysa. I don't think he expected to see Cat again. Especially not pointing his own knife (?) in his face.  Ned was amusing to torment, but I don't think he was a target until he became a liability.

I think Petyr is a devious, unscrupulous, consummate opportunist, but he's pragmatic.

Actually one of the reasons I think Baelish got Lysa to kill Jon Arryn was that he would be made Hand. Having Lysa and the Vale in the few years as consolation prize. He knows Robert doesn't love his brothers and who better to replace Jon Arryn than Jon Arryn's protege?

I think its a fair assessment for his perspective. After all Ned Stark and Robert Baratheon haven't even seen each other since the end of the Greyjoy Rebellion. Longer than Baelish has been in King's Landing in fact. Granted Ned plays a important role as Warden and LP of the North but has had no hand in the running of the kingdom at large.

Then Robert says he is going North and its clear to see that he plans to name Stark hand. Then he gets Lysa to sent the letter blaming the Lannisters. Ironically most of the players think that they did kill Jon because Pycelle let Jon Arryn die since Jon knew about the incest.

The problem for Baelish and also Varys (but that is another issue) if the incest gets the wrong the Lannisters kill Robert and install Joff. If the news gets out and everyone believes it Stannis is king and both Varys and Baelish have every good reasons for not wanting Stannis as King. Baelish because at best he loses all his power and influence and sent to the Fingers. At worse Stannis kills him for corruption. Varys doesn't want a military commander like Stannis at the head of a united Westeros for Aegon. Also he supposedly hates magic and truly just men terrify him.

I actually think the letter was supposed to bring him South. Stannis has no allies and once he is dealt with the Lannisters are the next issue. Then the events of the book happen and Ned insists on putting Stannis on the throne. Thus Baelish is forced to throw in with the Lannisters and wait for Renly to return and open the gate for him. Then shadowbabies occur.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Graydon Hicks said:

still hate that overly well dressed weasel. i hope someone sticks a sharp knife somewhere sensitive on him , and twists slowly.

Yes, he's a weasel.  A 'blue falcon.'

The overdressed adulation for the enterprising psychopath is the reason Trump is president. Surely not a cause for celebration.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, SeaWitch said:

Why all this hate for a poor boy made good?  I thought people prized initiative, the go-getting spirit of opportunity? *blinks innocently*

Mainly since people think has been an evil little sociopath since birth and is responsible for every bad thing that has happened in the books... only slight hyperbole.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Lord Wraith said:

Mainly since people think has been an evil little sociopath since birth and is responsible for every bad thing that has happened in the books... only slight hyperbole.

Yeah. I have my own opinions on what shaped him as a person, and I don't think he's either a psychopath or a sociopath.  Or responsible for every hangnail and stubbed toe in the Seven Kingdoms.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Graydon Hicks said:

i just hate him cause he seems to be betraying everyone at the drop of a hat, then killing the inconvenient. and he has pedophile face.

I'll disagree with the face thing, because I like AG's smirky little visage, but the rest of it.. okay, fair enough.  Mind you, that doesn't actually make him stand out in Planetos.  It's a really horrible place to live. >Oo<

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

My theory? Varys has him killed. He can't risk Ned telling Robb or Cat or Edmure or Yohn Royce or whoever about the twincest because that would kickstart the war Varys is trying desperately to stall. 

I actually think Varys/Illyrio might have hired Jaqen to make sure Ned suffered an "accident" on his way to the Wall, but of course Joff screwed all that plan and poor Jaqen found himself chained with some criminals and without his target. 

You’re probably right but for the wrong reasons

Ned was a follower and a family man. Despite being honourable, he always placed his family first. For example, he brought Jon Snow to Winterfell and he raised him as his son even though he risked irking the Tullys. He retracted his accusations towards Joffrey when threats were made towards Sansa.

In contrast Robb was ambitious. He moved South despite the fact that Lannisters held half of his family captive. After defeating Jamie he placed a crown on his head despite his army was too small to defend his new realm.

Considering that Sansa was in Lannister’s custody it would have been easier for Tywin to force Ned to bend the knee rather than Robb. The former would have been bad news for Varys whose plan relied heavily on Aegon/Danny finding a divided and weakened Westeros for them to conquer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...