U.S. education under attack?

[Iskaral Pust]

38 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

It amazes me how many adults seem to be ignorant when it comes to personal finance. 

Most of that ignorance is willful.  Most people don't want to constrain their appetites and impulses.  Personal finance requires mental effort and, worse, leads to willpower requiring even more mental effort.  The great tragedy of basic personal finance is not lack of education -- although I'd like to see more explicit education -- but the active avoidance for plausible deniability and blame shifting.  If you learn/acknowledge personal finance, then you have to start living within your means or confront that fact that your own indulgent choices are the problem.  It's so much easier to just ignore personal finance and feel like a passive victim.  I'm pretty dispirited on this topic.  Most liberal policy presumes a virtuous population.  I believe most people are fundamentally good but also inclined to take more than they've strictly earned unless what they take is subject to tribal accountability -- which is nigh impossible in our huge societies. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 minute ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Most of that ignorance is willful.  Most people don't want to constrain their appetites and impulses.  Personal finance requires mental effort and, worse, leads to willpower requiring even more mental effort.  The great tragedy of basic personal finance is not lack of education -- although I'd like to see more explicit education -- but the active avoidance for plausible deniability and blame shifting.  If you learn/acknowledge personal finance, then you have to start living within your means or confront that fact that your own indulgent choices are the problem.  It's so much easier to just ignore personal finance and feel like a passive victim.  I'm pretty dispirited on this topic.  Most liberal policy presumes a virtuous population.  I believe most people are fundamentally good but also inclined to take more than they've strictly earned unless what they take is subject to tribal accountability -- which is nigh impossible in our huge societies. 

Yeah, that's a great point. We all have our supposed "blind spots". I put that term in quotes because it is mostly willful as you say. I'm a prime example of this. As I'm sitting here pointing fingers at folks for being fiscally irresponsible, I'm pushing 50, at least 50 pounds overweight, I eat like a fucking animal, I smoke, I sit on my fat ass in front of the computer for hours everyday and don't get half the exercise I should. 

[MerenthaClone]

Right, which is why all we should do is provide education and remove as many barriers to pro-social behavior as possible without trying to just force people to act like how we think is proper.  In some very rare instances, I can see a reason to force behavior (parents taking care of children) but most of the time a supportive, hands-off style is better.  In theory, I suppose.    

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 minutes ago, MerenthaClone said:

Right, which is why all we should do is provide education and remove as many barriers to pro-social behavior as possible without trying to just force people to act like how we think is proper.  In some very rare instances, I can see a reason to force behavior (parents taking care of children) but most of the time a supportive, hands-off style is better.  In theory, I suppose.    

I agree, but there has to be some measure of personal responsibility that is applied to the equation. I don't think that's unreasonable.

[Mindwalker]

Sorry, wrong thread!