Who else could Robb Stark marry instead?

[Angel Eyes]

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I can understand why Asha is the only female Greyjoy, since that makes her more noteworthy, but it really makes no sense that there are no other Ironborn women. Even in the World Book, the only women mentioned are the Lannisters that married Ironborn men prior to the Conquest. It's implied that Ironborn women, like the Dornish and northerners, have more autonomy than other Westerosi women too, so that makes it even more disappointing that we know virtually nothing about them.

I don't think Ned planned on putting Jon on the Iron Throne. It seems to me that he planned on Jon living and dying without ever having known who his real parents were. 

Then why did Ned promise to tell Jon about his parentage? He does not make promises lightly.

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

Then why did Ned promise to tell Jon about his parentage? He does not make promises lightly.

I'm pretty sure that was only in the show. In the books, I don't recall there even being a scene where Ned speaks to Jon alone. The only time they're together is when the deserter is beheaded in the very beginning. But even in the show's case, I think it's more that he felt he owed Jon the truth rather than that he wanted to make him king. If he planned on crowing Jon (and overthrowing his best friend), then why did he let Jon go to the Wall? He could have sent him to be fostered at another northern House or taken him to King's Landing with him. Instead he let Jon join the Night's Watch, where he would swear an oath that would prevent him from ever wearing a crown or furthering the Targaryen dynasty.

[Angel Eyes]

I don't think he wanted Jon to be King, he wanted Jon to be safe so Robert, who hated all Targaryens, wouldn't go looking for him. 

So to get back to topic, I personally support either Dacey Mormont or Myrcella Baratheon. Personally, I'm surprised no one thought about this in-universe. But nooo, they had to couple Sansa and Joffrey. I already have a thread in the A Game of Thrones subforum asking why that betrothal had to be thought about first.

[Endymion I Targaryen]

Myrcella was the best choice for me. It could work better than Joffrey and Sansa. 

I vote for Ysilla Royce too. This could strengthen ties to the Vale.

 

[Reisendame]

On 7/3/2017 at 7:11 PM, Angel Eyes said:

 So to get back to topic, I personally support either Dacey Mormont or Myrcella Baratheon. Personally, I'm surprised no one thought about this in-universe. But nooo, they had to couple Sansa and Joffrey. I already have a thread in the A Game of Thrones subforum asking why that betrothal had to be thought about first.

I've wondered the same thing too, but it just occurred to me: EVERYTHING changed once Ned became Hand (very early on in the story). The Starks may have had some marriage prospects lined up for Robb prior to GOT, but the apparent options blew wide open once Ned & co were invited to King's Landing. 

The Starks (Ned, at least) are not ambitious folk, but Sansa could to be the next Queen of Seven Kingdoms. Perhaps they wanted to secure that match ASAP , and re-strategize the other kids' prospects.

Things went south (literally) pretty quickly, they didn't know who to trust, Ned was killed, Cat tried to make a wise match for Robb, and we all know what happens next. 

I can see Robb and Myrcella, but it seems like southerners have no interest in Winterfell (unless they're kicking the Starks out). He may have had better luck with another Northern family. 

[The Knight of Flours]

The Starks don't seen to have worried that much about match-making with southron lords and ladies - just every now and again.  What's interesting is that Robb wasn't sent off as a ward to some reasonably friendly house.  Though Jon Arryn was not at the Vale, the Blackfish might have been the perfect mentor for Robb and Jon Snow could have been sent off with him too.

But, in any case, Robb should have married Roslin Frey.

[Livesundersink]

5 hours ago, The Knight of Flours said:

The Starks don't seen to have worried that much about match-making with southron lords and ladies - just every now and again.  What's interesting is that Robb wasn't sent off as a ward to some reasonably friendly house.  Though Jon Arryn was not at the Vale, the Blackfish might have been the perfect mentor for Robb and Jon Snow could have been sent off with him too.

But, in any case, Robb should have married Roslin Frey.

Something i've been thinking about lately concerning House Stark and the fact that none of the children are betrothed at the beginning of the story is that Ned has seen the results of the southern betrothals that his father arranged for his siblings and the responses of Brandon and Lyanna to them.

We see Ned thinking back to the night that Lyanna was betrothed to Robert and that she was notably less than impressed and whilst Ned said that Robert would settle down and be the good honest husband that she deserved, she was not at all convinced.

We also see in Dance, Lady Barbrey tells Theon that Brandon didn't want Catelyn and whilst Cat thinks back to how charming and dashing he was, it's entirely possible that he was telling her things that she wanted to hear. Given his moniker of being the "wild wolf" and his love of philandering and Cat's whole attitude towards Jon and Ned's supposed infidelity, it's not hard to imagine she would have been miserable with Brandon.

As for the lack of northern betrothals maybe he just wants them to live their lives and find spouses on their own terms and be happy, we see that in the past Alys Karstark was brought to Winterfell by her father in the hopes of a betrothal to Robb whilst this was unsuccessful i can't remember if we are ever told why.

[Reisendame]

When our story begins, it's also apparently "peacetime." As soon as war broke out, the marriage alliances became more urgent. Robb promises to wed the Frey girl *solely* for Frey support. If Robb understood the true gravity of breaking that vow, I'd hope he'd stick to it.

What if Robb didn't break that vow, though? It seems that Walder Frey resented the Tully's (Starks) for a lifetime. Would Frey still murder the Starks after gaining their trust? I wouldn't put it past him- especially if the Lannisters had an appealing offer. 

[Angel Eyes]

11 hours ago, Reisendame said:

When our story begins, it's also apparently "peacetime." As soon as war broke out, the marriage alliances became more urgent. Robb promises to wed the Frey girl *solely* for Frey support. If Robb understood the true gravity of breaking that vow, I'd hope he'd stick to it.

What if Robb didn't break that vow, though? It seems that Walder Frey resented the Tully's (Starks) for a lifetime. Would Frey still murder the Starks after gaining their trust? I wouldn't put it past him- especially if the Lannisters had an appealing offer. 

Well, the Lannisters have: 

Lancel (16 in 298 AC)

Willem (11-13 in 298 AC)

Martyn (11-13 in 298 AC)

Janei (no more than 2 in 298 AC)

Tyrek (12? In 298 AC), who was betrothed to an infant

Joy Hill; doesn't count as a bastard

 

[Angel Eyes]

On 7/9/2017 at 3:17 AM, Reisendame said:

I've wondered the same thing too, but it just occurred to me: EVERYTHING changed once Ned became Hand (very early on in the story). The Starks may have had some marriage prospects lined up for Robb prior to GOT, but the apparent options blew wide open once Ned & co were invited to King's Landing. 

The Starks (Ned, at least) are not ambitious folk, but Sansa could to be the next Queen of Seven Kingdoms. Perhaps they wanted to secure that match ASAP , and re-strategize the other kids' prospects.

Things went south (literally) pretty quickly, they didn't know who to trust, Ned was killed, Cat tried to make a wise match for Robb, and we all know what happens next. 

I can see Robb and Myrcella, but it seems like southerners have no interest in Winterfell (unless they're kicking the Starks out). He may have had better luck with another Northern family. 

Well, the only Northern girl we hear of is Alys Karstark, and she's betrothed to Daryn Hornwood, who subsequently loses his life to Jaime Lannister.

[TMIFairy]

On 23.05.2017 at 7:31 PM, StraightFromAsshai said:

So his options were limited? 

Which point in time are you asking about?

1 - before Ned leaves for KL?

2 - after raising the banners yet before reaching the Twins/proclamation as King?

3 - between Robb's proclamation as "King in the North and the Rivers" and the Red Wedding?

IMO at each of these points Robb's marriage options are different ...

[Angel Eyes]

So if we're looking at the North, what Northern girls do we have?

Dacey Mormont

Alys Karstark, betrothed to Daryn Hornwood before he gets killed by Jaime at the Whispering Wood.

Anyone else?

[TMIFairy]

2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

So if we're looking at the North, what Northern girls do we have?

Dacey Mormont

Alys Karstark, betrothed to Daryn Hornwood before he gets killed by Jaime at the Whispering Wood.

Anyone else?

1 - GreatJon Umber has "daughters", younger than Smalljon, so possibly in their early teens.

Strong House, large benefit of match; extra benefit - on other side of Boltons

2 - The second Manderly girl (the elder one probably will be the Lady Regnant)

Strong House, wealthy, very large benefit of match; potential drawback - a Sevener (2nd such lady of Winterfell in a row!), which might balance out part of the benefits; Manderly's already ultra loyal

3 - Mormont girls nos. 3 and 4 - Jory and Lyra IIRC, not sure of the birth order. I would discount Dacey as she is the heir and too old, while Alysane has a tendency to shag bears in the woods, and Lyanna is simply too young.

Respectable house, but neither powerful nor wealthy - hence little "physical" gain; also the Mormonts are loyal already; however, strong message of "Starks reward loyalty" which can make (relatively lesser) lords and their ladies think of matches with other Stark children

4 - Meera Reed

See House Mormont comment;

5 - Jorelle (?) Cerwyn - but she is old, c.30, and "homely".

See House Mormont comment;

6 - lots of houses have not been fleshed out in the books, so we cannot rule out that they have daughters too. But the above is what I remember top of mind from canon.

7 - there are some 5-10 year old girls, IIRC, but lets us seek betrothals NOW.

 

IMO the best matches for Rob  would either be

- an Umber - for their power and helping to balance out the Bolton-Ryswell-Dustin block

or

- a Mormont/Reed - to show that Starks value their bannermen.

Manderly - IMO Robb's "Northen marriage" should reinforce his "Northerness" - weakened by Ned's Vale upbringing and having a Severn mother. A Manderly bride is better than a "foreigner from the South" but less "Northern" than the girls from Houses keeping the Old God's.

Here Alys Karstark really is a great opportunity lost ...

I could have missed some nubile girls ...

 

[wiredup]

I have always thought Wynafryd Manderly would have been a good match. Appease the Northerners and reinforce ties to the most important city in the North, especially considering it has the only real war fleet.