Aemon Targaryen

R + L = J .... but so what?

111 posts in this topic

On 2017. 05. 29. at 6:58 PM, Cron said:

 

The only question is...who will be the three rulers?? I think Tyrion for sure, Dany for sure, and the third is more difficult to say.

The possibilities are countless: 

A. Tyrion, Jon, Daenerys  

B. Arya, Gendry, Lyanna Mormont 

C. Sweetrobin, Pod, Hot Pie 

D. Sallador Saan Old Nan and Jhiqui 

E. Kinvara, Melisandre and Thoros 

F. Cersei and two large mirrors 

G. Ser Pounce, Daenerys' silver, Ramsay's hound 

H. Brienne, Jaime, the horse named Honor

I. Bronn, a good girl, a bad pussy 

J. Sam, Gilly, little Sam 

On 2017. 05. 29. at 6:44 PM, Lady Sansa's Direwolf said:

The reason R+L=J is important is because, it makes Jon the legitimate Tarygaryen heir, not Dany. But Jon will never identify with his Targ ancestry, he is a Stark in coloring and temperament. He is just as much a Stark as any of Ned and Cat's children, perhaps more so because it is the only name he identifies with.

IF Rhaegar and Lyanna were married. 

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Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

...IF Rhaegar and Lyanna were married. 

And if Aerys hadn't made Viserys his heir.

No, wait. That's from the books.

In the show, has Aerys disinherited Rhaegar?

Edited by Prof. Cecily

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3 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said:

And if Aerys hadn't made Viserys his heir.

No, wait. That's from the books.

In the show, has Aerys disinherited Rhaegar?

I don't even remember Aerys disinheriting Rhaegar in the books. 

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Posted (edited)

29 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

I don't even remember Aerys disinheriting Rhaegar in the books. 

He named Viserys his heir over Rhaegar because he thought that Rhargar was plotting against him. Not sure about disinheriting Rhaegar and his kids but for sure he made his decision on who his heir should be. 

 

Show will make Jon legit and heir over Dany, even if it makes not much of a sense.

Edited by Lord Friendzone

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22 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

He named Viserys his heir over Rhaegar because he thought that Rhargar was plotting against him. Not sure about disinheriting Rhaegar and his kids but for sure he made his decision on who his heir should be. 

  Hide contents

Show will make Jon legit and heir over Dany, even if it makes not much of a sense.

Viserys is dead now so it would still make Rhaegar's heir next in line. 

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On 26/05/2017 at 2:54 PM, HuntingMolly said:

I actually believe the big "reveal" relating to this will be that Jon's wolf, Ghost, is actually Ned Stark.  rior to execution), then into Ghost.

No. If anything,Ghost is the spirit guide of Jon's father Rhaegar. The direwolf was the only white one among the litter.Rhaegar's hair is white. Ghost is the only direwolf among his siblings to have red eyes. Rhaegar wore red rubies. Ghost is the only direwolf that is quiet. The other direwolves are noisy and howl. It feels like there is a human spirit living within Ghost. Ghost was found later on further away from the rest of the puppies when originally discovered by their dead wolf mother. 

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42 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

Viserys is dead now so it would still make Rhaegar's heir next in line. 

He named Dany in the books or she simply follows him. Either Dany is the next in line. Besides the obvious will to take it, army that Jon doesn't have. Claim can only take you so far.

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1 hour ago, RhaenysB said:

I don't even remember Aerys disinheriting Rhaegar in the books. 

There is SO much information about SO many diverse characters!

And then, HBO vs GRRM.

Let me check where I found that information:

Hmmm.

Here's the wiki http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Viserys_Targaryen

Quote

When his brother Rhaegar was killed at the Battle of the Trident, Viserys was named his father's heir, passing over Rhaegar's infant son Aegon.

No mention of what I claimed, still, Viserys is named Aerys' heir, but AFTER Rhaegar's defeat at the Trident.

Let's keep looking:

Hmmm.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/136031-rhaegar-was-disinherited/

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/5qhtwt/did_aerys_the_mad_king_make_viserys_his_heir/

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/3atoe0/spoilers_all_aeryss_heir/

https://www.quora.com/Did-Aerys-The-Mad-King-make-Viserys-his-heir-before-or-after-Rhaegars-death

 

Thanks for questioning me-I learned how carefully one must check and re-check the sources of one's claims!

 

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47 minutes ago, Wolfgirly said:

No. If anything,Ghost is the spirit guide of Jon's father Rhaegar. The direwolf was the only white one among the litter.Rhaegar's hair is white. Ghost is the only direwolf among his siblings to have red eyes. Rhaegar wore red rubies. Ghost is the only direwolf that is quiet. The other direwolves are noisy and howl. It feels like there is a human spirit living within Ghost. Ghost was found later on further away from the rest of the puppies when originally discovered by their dead wolf mother. 

That's an interesting thought about the rubies.

Yes, Rhaegar wore rubies.

Yet Jon wears garnets, in the form of the eyes of the wolf carved into the pommel of Longclaw..

And Lord Tywin wanted rubies, not garnets, to embellish the two swords forged from Ice.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said:

There is SO much information about SO many diverse characters!

And then, HBO vs GRRM.

Let me check where I found that information:

Hmmm.

Here's the wiki http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Viserys_Targaryen

No mention of what I claimed, still, Viserys is named Aerys' heir, but AFTER Rhaegar's defeat at the Trident.

Let's keep looking:

Hmmm.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/136031-rhaegar-was-disinherited/

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/5qhtwt/did_aerys_the_mad_king_make_viserys_his_heir/

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/3atoe0/spoilers_all_aeryss_heir/

https://www.quora.com/Did-Aerys-The-Mad-King-make-Viserys-his-heir-before-or-after-Rhaegars-death

 

Thanks for questioning me-I learned how carefully one must check and re-check the sources of one's claims!

 

So Rhaegar wasn't disinherited, there's just a theory that he was. That's all about that. 

I don't buy it, this is very important information and would have been straight out mentioned, because people would know. 

I know Aerys was mad, but who on god's earth would disinherit their ONLY grown up son? Viserys is still a kid and - as I found out from the useful links you provided - Aerys was pretty paranoid about his health and making sure he lived to adulthood (after so many dead babies). Why the hell would he name a child his heir over his living grown up son? Nah. Absolutely not buying this. 

 

Edited by RhaenysB

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On 5/29/2017 at 3:32 PM, snow is the man said:

In this scenario jon would be KING IN THE NORTH!

That works, and would be fine with me, but I've got a feeling the power over all 7 kingdoms will be divided 3 ways.

Jon MIGHT be one of the tri-archs, but it would kind of surprise me.

Still...maybe.

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On 5/29/2017 at 7:42 PM, Aemon Targaryen said:

 Why would Tyrion be ruling a separate part of the 7 kingdoms to Dany?  Doesn't seem likely at present.

I'd be very interested if you could give some quotes or citations of Tyrion's triarchy talk.

I'm not saying Tyrion would be ruling a separate part of Westeros, I'm saying three rulers (a "tri-arch") for ALL of Westeros.

I'd love to be able to give exact quotes, but it's not really convenient.  In ADWD, though, while Tyrion is sailing on the ship down the river, these issues are discussed.  You should be able to find it by Googling, or whatever.  Basically, a fair amount of time is given to the discussion of 3 civilizations which came together and were governed by a "tri-archy," as I strongly recall.  Three, co-equal rulers.  As I understand it, they vote if they disagree, and 2 out of 3 wins.

My understanding is that it is a very primitive form of representative gov't, something between a monarchy (one rule) and a true democracy or representative Republic.    In my opinion, there is NO REASON for GRRM to write about all that unless he planned to incorporate it into the future of Westeros.  Tyrion knows about it, and he is a highly influential advisor to Dany, who has the most raw power (dragons and armies)

In my opinion, it is very likely Tyrion is going to talk Dany into cutting up the power 3 ways, into a tri-archy, with Dany and Tyrion being two fo the three...and the third much more difficult to identify.

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20 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

The possibilities are countless: 

A. Tyrion, Jon, Daenerys  

B. Arya, Gendry, Lyanna Mormont 

C. Sweetrobin, Pod, Hot Pie 

D. Sallador Saan Old Nan and Jhiqui 

E. Kinvara, Melisandre and Thoros 

F. Cersei and two large mirrors 

G. Ser Pounce, Daenerys' silver, Ramsay's hound 

H. Brienne, Jaime, the horse named Honor

I. Bronn, a good girl, a bad pussy 

J. Sam, Gilly, little Sam 

IF Rhaegar and Lyanna were married. 

HARRR!!!!

Great stuff, very creative, and some of the funniest stuff I've ever read here!! (Maybe THE funniest)

I think you are are a naughty girl yourself for writing some of that...

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17 minutes ago, Cron said:

HARRR!!!!

Great stuff, very creative, and some of the funniest stuff I've ever read here!! (Maybe THE funniest)

I think you are are a naughty girl yourself for writing some of that...

THE funniest would be to actually see some of those happen.  But why am I putting that past the show? 

No, no. D&D wrote that, I'm just repeating it. 

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I was under the impression that Aerys was mistrustful of Rhaegar and felt that he should disinherit him, but in the end Aerys never went through with it. He felt Rhaegar was loyal enough to him that he sent him to command the army at the trident. If he absolutely hated his son he wouldn't have given him such a big opportunity fighting in the rebellion. 

1 hour ago, RhaenysB said:

So Rhaegar wasn't disinherited, there's just a theory that he was. That's all about that. 

I don't buy it, this is very important information and would have been straight out mentioned, because people would know. 

I know Aerys was mad, but who on god's earth would disinherit their ONLY grown up son? Viserys is still a kid and - as I found out from the useful links you provided - Aerys was pretty paranoid about his health and making sure he lived to adulthood (after so many dead babies). Why the hell would he name a child his heir over his living grown up son? Nah. Absolutely not buying this. 

 

I was under the impression before this that Aerys only considered disinheriting Rhaegar, which even mad Aerys realised he couldn't do.

Aerys couldn't have just disinherited Rhaegar anyway. Rhaegar and all his legitimate sons would have to be dead, and only then could Viserys to become heir

Rhaegar was Aerys heir till his death at the trident. After the trident, baby Aegon would then become heir. This would be until Tywin sacked the city and his head was smashed against the wall (I am not counting fAegon here). It's only after this, would the Targearyn loyalists consider Viserys as heir. This would only be because they did not know about the birth of Jon in Dorne, if they had known they would have rallied  behind a very wee baby Jon. 

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8 minutes ago, WeKnowNothing said:

I was under the impression that Aerys was mistrustful of Rhaegar and felt that he should disinherit him, but in the end Aerys never went through with it. He felt Rhaegar was loyal enough to him that he sent him to command the army at the trident. If he absolutely hated his son he wouldn't have given him such a big opportunity fighting in the rebellion. 

I was under the impression before this that Aerys only considered disinheriting Rhaegar, which even mad Aerys realised he couldn't do.

Aerys couldn't have just disinherited Rhaegar anyway. Rhaegar and all his legitimate sons would have to be dead, and only then could Viserys to become heir

Rhaegar was Aerys heir till his death at the trident. After the trident, baby Aegon would then become heir. This would be until Tywin sacked the city and his head was smashed against the wall (I am not counting fAegon here). It's only after this, would the Targearyn loyalists consider Viserys as heir. This would only be because they did not know about the birth of Jon in Dorne, if they had known they would have rallied  behind a very wee baby Jon. 

Yes that's pretty much what I think, except for the part about wee baby Jon. 

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20 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

Yes that's pretty much what I think, except for the part about wee baby Jon. 

You gotta go let of that hate. Next season Jon is going to steal Dany's heart. ^_^

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1 hour ago, Lord Friendzone said:

You gotta go let of that hate. Next season Jon is going to steal Dany's heart. ^_^

There are so many alligable brides, can't he steal someone else's heart? 

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2 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

There are so many alligable brides, can't he steal someone else's heart? 

So many alligable brides but not many with dragons, dragonglass and army. Also Dany is the first one to fall in love or to really admire. You should voice your criticism at her for this. :cool4:

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10 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

There are so many alligable brides, can't he steal someone else's heart? 

Dany is the best one politically for him, and Jon is the best politically for her as well. If they need to be allies, this marriage will have to go through and for the sake of plot demanding it. And if they fall in love with each other, well it is allright for both who are Targearyens after all (1 more point to prove for r+l=j)

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