Aemon Targaryen

R + L = J .... but so what?

134 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

9 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

So many alligable brides but not many with dragons, dragonglass and army. Also Dany is the first one to fall in love or to really admire. You should voice your criticism at her for this. :cool4:

I mean... I can't really argue with that point... 

All I can do is whine and throw a tantrum that I want Daenerys to fall from Drogon in an epic battle and die a heroic death after saving Jon's ass so she can join Drogo and their baby in the Night Lands where they repeatedly tell the great stallion to go fuck himself together.

Oh well... at least there are dragons and horse surfing Dothraki and stuff burns and it's so awesome. 

1 hour ago, WeKnowNothing said:

Dany is the best one politically for him, and Jon is the best politically for her as well. If they need to be allies, this marriage will have to go through and for the sake of plot demanding it. And if they fall in love with each other, well it is allright for both who are Targearyens after all (1 more point to prove for r+l=j)

I know :( 

Edited by RhaenysB

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16 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

So Rhaegar wasn't disinherited, there's just a theory that he was. That's all about that. 

I don't buy it, this is very important information and would have been straight out mentioned, because people would know. 

I know Aerys was mad, but who on god's earth would disinherit their ONLY grown up son? Viserys is still a kid and - as I found out from the useful links you provided - Aerys was pretty paranoid about his health and making sure he lived to adulthood (after so many dead babies). Why the hell would he name a child his heir over his living grown up son? Nah. Absolutely not buying this. 

 

I agree with you.

I quoted those links so you could see for yourself just how longstanding that particular false idea has been around.

And refuted again and again.

I hadn't even thought to question it til you did!

Fandom is a strange and twisty little beastie.

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2 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

I mean... I can't really argue with that point... 

All I can do is whine and throw a tantrum that I want Daenerys to fall from Drogon in an epic battle and die a heroic death after saving Jon's ass so she can join Drogo and their baby in the Night Lands where they repeatedly tell the great stallion to go fuck himself together.

Oh well... at least there are dragons and horse surfing Dothraki and stuff burns and it's so awesome. 

I know :( 

Put it this way. No matter how moody, grumpy and depressed Jon is ... he's still a good guy in his heart. If there is anyone decent, good political ally and someone you can count on, it's Jon Snow. Same goes for Dany because she'll risk her own life to save him, that shows a lot.

This idea of Dany joining Drogo and Rhaego in the Night Lands is nice but like Jon has said, there is only darness in the afterlife. It might just were for Jon or Beric because their work is not done in the world of men, but it can also means that this idea of afterlife is just an idea.

House of the Undying vision can be expalined many ways. I was dissapointed like many others with show version at first, but then start to appreciate it a bit more. They could not reveal that much and still added few things we can recognize, and Jason Momoa as a bonus.

House of the Undying vision can mean hat Dany might join Drogo and Rhaego in the afterlife, but also can mean that she will find that she lost Beyond the Wall, where Jon was at that time. Or that Jon, Aemon are her family but probably mainly directed at Jon who she will meet. Its not as clear just like Red Keep being burned or destroyed by with wildfire or dragons. It probably will be by wildfire becaise Cersei is capable of that, Dany won't attack it because people would die.

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22 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

THE funniest would be to actually see some of those happen.  But why am I putting that past the show? 

No, no. D&D wrote that, I'm just repeating it. 

HARR!!

The one with Bronn was my favorite.

How would it be for the common folk to live under that tri-archy?

My guess:  Not so bad, depending on who the two women were, one of whom I assume would be Tyene.

I don't see Bronn himself as a bad guy, just very dangerously morally..neutral.  The ultimate mercenary.  Still, though, I believe if he was a tri-arch, he would be a generally good ruler, spending most of his time pursuing hedonistic pleasures, and causing FAR less harm than many of the other possible candidates for the job.

Who would the "good girl" be, though???  Tough to say in ASOIAF/GOT, there really aren't too many "good girls," I don't think.

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On 5/31/2017 at 8:52 PM, HuntingMolly said:

Not so tin-foily

 

Ned doesn't need warg powers in my theory.  Bran needs the two powers we already know he has -- warging and time travel.  

 

If Bran travels back, wargs into Ned, then takes on one of the white ravens that is nearby Ned when he is beheaded, then he could safely travel to the north where Ghost is.  Thus, Ghost being alive before Neds death is a requirement of the theory.  Ghost isn't a reincarnation of Ned, it is physically Ned himself, put there by Bran because of the knowledge he has on RLJ and the promise to Lyanna.

No, that's quite tin-foily. Trust me, the showrunners have never had such an idea cross their minds. And George Martin in particular wouldn't let Bran get so overly powerful.

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16 hours ago, WeKnowNothing said:

Dany is the best one politically for him, and Jon is the best politically for her as well. If they need to be allies, this marriage will have to go through and for the sake of plot demanding it. And if they fall in love with each other, well it is allright for both who are Targearyens after all (1 more point to prove for r+l=j)

I tend to think they will fall in love and sleep together before learning they are related, which Jon at least will have a problem with since he wasn't raised to expect an incestuous marriage like Dany was.

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18 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said:

I agree with you.

I quoted those links so you could see for yourself just how longstanding that particular false idea has been around.

And refuted again and again.

I hadn't even thought to question it til you did!

Fandom is a strange and twisty little beastie.

I can't quote it but the part where Aerys names Viserys as his heir is in the World of Ice and Fire. Need to check but I'm not sure if it was before or after the Trident, so at the very least he put Viserys ahead of Baby Aegon in the line of succession, and possibly Rhaegar too depending on the timing.

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On 6/3/2017 at 0:48 PM, Lord Friendzone said:

He named Viserys his heir over Rhaegar because he thought that Rhargar was plotting against him. Not sure about disinheriting Rhaegar and his kids but for sure he made his decision on who his heir should be. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Show will make Jon legit and heir over Dany, even if it makes not much of a sense.

I thought this, too. But it's just not actually the case.

Here's the wiki source http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Viserys_Targaryen

This really surprised me!

43 minutes ago, maudisdottir said:

I can't quote it but the part where Aerys names Viserys as his heir is in the World of Ice and Fire. Need to check but I'm not sure if it was before or after the Trident, so at the very least he put Viserys ahead of Baby Aegon in the line of succession, and possibly Rhaegar too depending on the timing.

That would be interesting.

Would World trump Wiki or vice versa?

Wiki is clear on the subject:

Here's the wiki http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Viserys_Targaryen

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6 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

I tend to think they will fall in love and sleep together before learning they are related, which Jon at least will have a problem with since he wasn't raised to expect an incestuous marriage like Dany was.

Yes I think this would have to be the case. So I'm assuming Jon won't meet Bran, Howland and (maybe) Benjen before having a sex with Dany or something. These are the only people alive who would be to tell him the truth about his parentage.

 And at least the Jon/Dany pairing is better than Jon/Arya, which was the original plan GRRM had for the end of the series. 

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2 hours ago, maudisdottir said:

I can't quote it but the part where Aerys names Viserys as his heir is in the World of Ice and Fire. Need to check but I'm not sure if it was before or after the Trident, so at the very least he put Viserys ahead of Baby Aegon in the line of succession, and possibly Rhaegar too depending on the timing.

Aerys never went through with the plan though. He thought of making Viserys his heir whilst Rhaegar was still alive, but in the end he never went through with it. After Rhaegar's death, baby Aegon was the heir, until the sack of Kings Landing (where both Aegon and Aerys were killed). And only then was Viserys named heir, but that was by the loyalists with him at the time - not by Aerys himself. Obviously the three kingsguard at the tower of joy didn't consider Viserys the King/heir, as they stayed guarding Lyanna's son. 

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33 minutes ago, Prof. Cecily said:

I thought this, too. But it's just not actually the case.

Here's the wiki source http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Viserys_Targaryen

This really surprised me!

That would be interesting.

Would World trump Wiki or vice versa?

Wiki is clear on the subject:

Here's the wiki http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Viserys_Targaryen

It was in TWOIAF. I thought he was named before Rhaegar's death because Aerys grew to think that Rhaegar was going to remove him from the iron throne and tbh Rhaegar planned some changes. Just before he left King's Landing, he spoke to Jaime about certain changes that will be made. Aerys in his paranoia state may have had some legitimacy in his thoughts. i'm pretty sure Aerys did not disinherited Rhaegar or his kids. I have to re-read TWOIAF again because I am not sure Aerys did it before and not after Rhaegar's death but since he skipped past Aegon, that says a lot.

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23 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said:

I agree with you.

I quoted those links so you could see for yourself just how longstanding that particular false idea has been around.

And refuted again and again.

I hadn't even thought to question it til you did!

Fandom is a strange and twisty little beastie.

Yeah, it's interesting how people tend to take these theories for fact. 

20 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Put it this way. No matter how moody, grumpy and depressed Jon is ... he's still a good guy in his heart. If there is anyone decent, good political ally and someone you can count on, it's Jon Snow. Same goes for Dany because she'll risk her own life to save him, that shows a lot.

This idea of Dany joining Drogo and Rhaego in the Night Lands is nice but like Jon has said, there is only darness in the afterlife. It might just were for Jon or Beric because their work is not done in the world of men, but it can also means that this idea of afterlife is just an idea.

House of the Undying vision can be expalined many ways. I was dissapointed like many others with show version at first, but then start to appreciate it a bit more. They could not reveal that much and still added few things we can recognize, and Jason Momoa as a bonus.

House of the Undying vision can mean hat Dany might join Drogo and Rhaego in the afterlife, but also can mean that she will find that she lost Beyond the Wall, where Jon was at that time. Or that Jon, Aemon are her family but probably mainly directed at Jon who she will meet. Its not as clear just like Red Keep being burned or destroyed by with wildfire or dragons. It probably will be by wildfire becaise Cersei is capable of that, Dany won't attack it because people would die.

Yes Jon is a good guy. I didn't say he isn't, but just because he's a good guy Daenerys doesn't have to fall or him. I know this is stupid and irrational, but I just can't subscribe to the idea of a Jon and Daenerys romance. 

Any afterlife is a question of belief. And what Jon or Beric saw or didn't see at the other end is is debate in its own right. Let's just not hop into the is there life after death discussion here. 

While I was counting on some Rhaegar/Lyanna visions, the Jason Momoa cameo was the best thing they could have done and it got me squalling like kid with a lollipop. But that's just me and my undying Jason's momoa crush, cough cough. 

The House of the Undying visions can be interpreted in many many ways and I'm not entirely sure the writers knew how it was to be interpreted back when they wrote it. It would make sense that her passed family would bring Daenerys beyond the wall where her living family is. Which is fine, it is great. But she still doesn't have to fall in love his nephew just because she is happy to find family. Awww just bring back Drogo, just for two minutes :bawl: (and yes I'm that insufferable fan who actually signs up to the whole west east, mountains seas prophecy shit even though it's totally crackpot) 

16 hours ago, Cron said:

HARR!!

The one with Bronn was my favorite.

How would it be for the common folk to live under that tri-archy?

My guess:  Not so bad, depending on who the two women were, one of whom I assume would be Tyene.

I don't see Bronn himself as a bad guy, just very dangerously morally..neutral.  The ultimate mercenary.  Still, though, I believe if he was a tri-arch, he would be a generally good ruler, spending most of his time pursuing hedonistic pleasures, and causing FAR less harm than many of the other possible candidates for the job.

Who would the "good girl" be, though???  Tough to say in ASOIAF/GOT, there really aren't too many "good girls," I don't think.

I imagine that Bronn would sit on the iron throne and clean his fingernails on the blades all day when he isn't impregnating mountains with Ten Goodmen (the younger brother of Ser Twenty Goodmen who helped Ramsay destroy Stannis's army). Tyrion would be his hand and throw books at their enemies when the political situation so required. 

The first co-ruler, Good Queen Brienne would bring knowledge and safety to the realm by passing on her supernatural tracking skills so that anybody, anywhere, anytime could find their enemies and protégés, be they in the middle of a battlefield, the randomest of inns or practicing swordsmanship on a rock. No question that Jaime would be her faithful hand to wave her goodbye whenever she rowed away for a lecture. 

The second co-ruler, Bad Queen Tyene would bring liberty and love to the realm, she would teach young and old of the ways of seduction, flirt and love So anyone, anywhere, anytime could bind the heart or crotch of their men and women be they in prison, on a pier or on the deck of a ship. Need I even say that Podrick would be her Hand and other things when passing on her skills required demonstration. 

And they lived happily ever after in piece and prosperity. 

Damn, I need to write a book, right? 

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4 hours ago, WeKnowNothing said:

Aerys never went through with the plan though. He thought of making Viserys his heir whilst Rhaegar was still alive, but in the end he never went through with it. After Rhaegar's death, baby Aegon was the heir, until the sack of Kings Landing (where both Aegon and Aerys were killed). And only then was Viserys named heir, but that was by the loyalists with him at the time - not by Aerys himself. Obviously the three kingsguard at the tower of joy didn't consider Viserys the King/heir, as they stayed guarding Lyanna's son. 

Not according to the World Book:

Quote

Birds flew and couriers raced to bear word of the victory at the Ruby Ford. When the news reached the Red Keep, it was said that Aerys cursed the Dornish, certain that Lewyn had betrayed Rhaegar. He sent his pregnant queen, Rhaella, and his younger son and new heir, Viserys, away to Dragonstone, but Princess Elia was forced to remain in King's Landing with Rhaegar's children

Aegon was still alive when Aerys named Viserys his heir.

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11 hours ago, WeKnowNothing said:

Yes I think this would have to be the case. So I'm assuming Jon won't meet Bran, Howland and (maybe) Benjen before having a sex with Dany or something. These are the only people alive who would be to tell him the truth about his parentage.

 And at least the Jon/Dany pairing is better than Jon/Arya, which was the original plan GRRM had for the end of the series. 

That, or Bran keeps his cards close to the chest about that, since (a) he can't prove it, and (b) he can't be certain of Jon's reaction or how it might impact his mental preparedness to fight and rule.

Aunt/nephew is actually a closer relation than cousins, but Jon/Arya would feel icky to me, too.

Even if Mad King Aerys did name Viserys his heir, the normal rules of succession would be assumed to reassert themselves after the deaths of both Aerys and Viserys. Especially with his having been mad.

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9 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

Yes Jon is a good guy. I didn't say he isn't, but just because he's a good guy Daenerys doesn't have to fall or him. I know this is stupid and irrational, but I just can't subscribe to the idea of a Jon and Daenerys romance. 

Why is that? I mean, not like books did not showed us many hints, foreshadowings of their eventual union, did they? I have to say Jon being a decent guy, who is honest, straightforward, brave but also inspires people to join his cause is someone Dany should avoid? Do you want her to be happy at least for some time before the war? It might be her best shot to be truly happy before the face the white walkers. I don't see other characters that can make her happy, understand her in a way Jon can.

Quote

Any afterlife is a question of belief. And what Jon or Beric saw or didn't see at the other end is is debate in its own right. Let's just not hop into the is there life after death discussion here. 

The idea of afterlife might be about belief but we were being shown that there is no afterlife for them, unless it was a specific case for Jon. This is just plain a simple fact. Just because we have vague visions which are by no means precise, in the show invented that it will be this way. This is not really a vision but it is about the death. Much like Jon said to Ygritte that they'll go back to the cave but it's unlikely to happen. Ygritte and Drogo were important parts of their journeys to evolve as characters, experience love, bond with Wildlings and Dothraki.

Quote

While I was counting on some Rhaegar/Lyanna visions, the Jason Momoa cameo was the best thing they could have done and it got me squalling like kid with a lollipop. But that's just me and my undying Jason's momoa crush, cough cough. 

Rhaegar or something else should have been included along with Jason. Not too obvious but something to hint at her future or what is really important to her.

Quote

The House of the Undying visions can be interpreted in many many ways and I'm not entirely sure the writers knew how it was to be interpreted back when they wrote it. It would make sense that her passed family would bring Daenerys beyond the wall where her living family is. Which is fine, it is great. But she still doesn't have to fall in love his nephew just because she is happy to find family. Awww just bring back Drogo, just for two minutes :bawl: (and yes I'm that insufferable fan who actually signs up to the whole west east, mountains seas prophecy shit even though it's totally crackpot) 

I think they had a pretty decent idea but couldn't reveal too much because the book version is too spoilery wth Red Wedding, FAegon is not on the show, Dany won't meet Stannis and they must've knew that or at least thought about it.

I really don't understand why are you so against Jon and Dany and yet you love Drogo and Dany. I must admit Jaspn is pretty cool but there is more to it, like whatit means for the characters. The man Jon is now would not be compatible with Ygritte, same with Dany and Drogo. Jon and Dany are two different people and in fact perfect for ech other, I would not say this about Jon from season 1 or Dany because at that time they weren't the right partners for each other.

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18 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

That, or Bran keeps his cards close to the chest about that, since (a) he can't prove it, and (b) he can't be certain of Jon's reaction or how it might impact his mental preparedness to fight and rule.

Aunt/nephew is actually a closer relation than cousins, but Jon/Arya would feel icky to me, too.

Even if Mad King Aerys did name Viserys his heir, the normal rules of succession would be assumed to reassert themselves after the deaths of both Aerys and Viserys. Especially with his having been mad.

I'm not really sure how Bran would be able to prove it either. By the way, if Bran's powers are meant to be getting even better, do you think he'll be able to prove it then? I read a theory on what if Bran's powers became stronger and because of this, he would be able to give other people his visions. Sort of like how in the books, Bloodraven has enough powers to give characters like Jaime and Bran (after his accident) visions and dreams of the future or the past. Though ive not seen other evidence for this, just an idea I read about which maybe relevant here.

Dany and Jon do not have any sort of relationship or bond together, so it would not feel so wrong if they are going to go all swooony over each other. Ok I know they are blood related, but they're not emotionally family. So technically the first type of relationship they have together as mature adults would be of lovers. It would be miles better than Jon/Arya. 

Yeah Aerys could choose his own heir, but there is no garuntee that every Lord and every kingsguard would follow this command. Everyone hated Mad Aerys and considered him a bad King anyway. Sort of like how Robert (who was a better King than Aerys) had set out orders in his will, saying Ned should be Joffery's Lord protecter. But as soon as Robert died, it was clear no one was going to follow this order and the will was turned into shreds.

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8 hours ago, WeKnowNothing said:

I'm not really sure how Bran would be able to prove it either. By the way, if Bran's powers are meant to be getting even better, do you think he'll be able to prove it then? I read a theory on what if Bran's powers became stronger and because of this, he would be able to give other people his visions. Sort of like how in the books, Bloodraven has enough powers to give characters like Jaime and Bran (after his accident) visions and dreams of the future or the past. Though ive not seen other evidence for this, just an idea I read about which maybe relevant here.

Maybe, we'll see.

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On 2017. 06. 05. at 11:14 PM, Lord Friendzone said:

Why is that? I mean, not like books did not showed us many hints, foreshadowings of their eventual union, did they? I have to say Jon being a decent guy, who is honest, straightforward, brave but also inspires people to join his cause is someone Dany should avoid? Do you want her to be happy at least for some time before the war? It might be her best shot to be truly happy before the face the white walkers. I don't see other characters that can make her happy, understand her in a way Jon can.

The idea of afterlife might be about belief but we were being shown that there is no afterlife for them, unless it was a specific case for Jon. This is just plain a simple fact. Just because we have vague visions which are by no means precise, in the show invented that it will be this way. This is not really a vision but it is about the death. Much like Jon said to Ygritte that they'll go back to the cave but it's unlikely to happen. Ygritte and Drogo were important parts of their journeys to evolve as characters, experience love, bond with Wildlings and Dothraki.

Rhaegar or something else should have been included along with Jason. Not too obvious but something to hint at her future or what is really important to her.

I think they had a pretty decent idea but couldn't reveal too much because the book version is too spoilery wth Red Wedding, FAegon is not on the show, Dany won't meet Stannis and they must've knew that or at least thought about it.

I really don't understand why are you so against Jon and Dany and yet you love Drogo and Dany. I must admit Jaspn is pretty cool but there is more to it, like whatit means for the characters. The man Jon is now would not be compatible with Ygritte, same with Dany and Drogo. Jon and Dany are two different people and in fact perfect for ech other, I would not say this about Jon from season 1 or Dany because at that time they weren't the right partners for each other.

I didn't say Jon isn't a decent guy, but just because he's a decent guy Daenerys doesn't have to fall in love with him. But if that's her heats' desire, so be it, being aunt and nephew is kinda within normal for GoT anyways. I'm just a Daenerys and Drogo fan and I don't like Jon that very much. 

And yeah I understand that Drogo (and Ygritte) was the first pancake and the purpose of their union was to make Daenerys/Jon open minded and accustomed with living/cooperating with foreign cultures, but I'm a frail and small minded human being who loved Jason's six pack and thought they were the cutest (let's not go into that debate, if possible). As for the afterlife, obviously there isn't one in asoiaf because GRRM doesn't believe there is one and that's okay of course. 

And I guess the above answer the question about why I love Daenerys and Drogo but not Jon. But I'm fine with Daenerys and Jon too, just make something happen and finish the story, That's all I want. Or whatever. Whaterver is fine with me. 

 

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1 hour ago, RhaenysB said:

I didn't say Jon isn't a decent guy, but just because he's a decent guy Daenerys doesn't have to fall in love with him. But if that's her heats' desire, so be it, being aunt and nephew is kinda within normal for GoT anyways. I'm just a Daenerys and Drogo fan and I don't like Jon that very much. 

And yeah I understand that Drogo (and Ygritte) was the first pancake and the purpose of their union was to make Daenerys/Jon open minded and accustomed with living/cooperating with foreign cultures, but I'm a frail and small minded human being who loved Jason's six pack and thought they were the cutest (let's not go into that debate, if possible). As for the afterlife, obviously there isn't one in asoiaf because GRRM doesn't believe there is one and that's okay of course. 

And I guess the above answer the question about why I love Daenerys and Drogo but not Jon. But I'm fine with Daenerys and Jon too, just make something happen and finish the story, That's all I want. Or whatever. Whaterver is fine with me. 

 

Not very common thing around here being Drogo and Dany fan.

I have loved his whole presence. Surely Jason was pretty damn awesome casting choice for Khal Drogo but while he was really important to her and still is - certain bastard from the North is a not a bad choice. When you think about it,Drogo was Jon's uncle at one point. GRRM is not the biggest believer of the afterlife in A Song of Ice and Fire saga and D&D might took a page out of his book so to speak. I don't blame Dany for thinking abou the afterlife or Drogo but unlikely given what we know from Jon or Beric, how author sees this thing to explore.

As long as it makes sense because even Jon and Dany has to make sense within the story narrative, which is why I would be against them earlier in the story. 

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51 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Not very common thing around here being Drogo and Dany fan.

I have loved his whole presence. Surely Jason was pretty damn awesome casting choice for Khal Drogo but while he was really important to her and still is - certain bastard from the North is a not a bad choice. When you think about it,Drogo was Jon's uncle at one point. GRRM is not the biggest believer of the afterlife in A Song of Ice and Fire saga and D&D might took a page out of his book so to speak. I don't blame Dany for thinking abou the afterlife or Drogo but unlikely given what we know from Jon or Beric, how author sees this thing to explore.

As long as it makes sense because even Jon and Dany has to make sense within the story narrative, which is why I would be against them earlier in the story. 

What is even around here? No, I know it's not very common, certainly not as common as being a fan of Jon or Cersei, huh? :lol: 

it's pretty obvious that Daenerys won't join Drogo in the afterlife that doesn't exist in asoiaf. It was just a random thought I explored. 

Whatever suits them, just finish the damn story already. 

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