Aemon Targaryen

R + L = J .... but so what?

134 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

:dunno: if they can pull that off, go ahead. I just don't think that's going to be a compelling storyline. 

no idea what he will do, but whatever he does, I'm positive he'll never finish the story. I hope I'm mistaken, but that's just what I think. 

Hmm, that really depends on how jealous Bronn is, and he doesn't come off as a jealous type. Also, if Bronn tried to keep Tyene off Pod, Tyene would immediately break their alliance because he wouldn't suffer a man putting boundaries to her freedom. This would result in a bloody war between Dorne and the Crown. Does Bronn want that? They probably wouldn't have enough books for the war. 

Ohhhh!!!!! So you think Tyene would get her way, and have BOTH Bronn and Pod, then???

Maybe.

Maybe.

Perhaps Bronn and Pod could share Tyene.  Have you ever seen the movie "Savages"?

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Just now, Cron said:

Ohhhh!!!!! So you think Tyene would get her way, and have BOTH Bronn and Pod, then???

Maybe.

Maybe.

Perhaps Bronn and Pod could share Tyene.  Have you ever seen the movie "Savages"?

Tyene would have whoever she likes without anybody's consent. Tyene is a free spirit. 

nope, I haven't. 

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6 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Jaime and Brienne just fighting together will be awesome.

We are on the same page here but i don't blame George for it. Without him and his beautiful there will be no story like this.

I think it can happen!

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R+L=J will matter in the show, as its painfully obvious that Dany won't survive the war that's coming with the dead. Jon will end up as king, and this will be at lest D&D's idea of a bittersweet ending: Dany gets it all, but ends up being dead in the end, Jon who  doesn't want to end up king,  ends up as one and probably marries someone out of duty and not love in the end.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Nocturne said:

R+L=J will matter in the show, as its painfully obvious that Dany won't survive the war that's coming with the dead. Jon will end up as king, and this will be at lest D&D's idea of a bittersweet ending: Dany gets it all, but ends up being dead in the end, Jon who  doesn't want to end up king,  ends up as one and probably marries someone out of duty and not love in the end.

 

 

I can totally see this going down, and frankly, it would be the best possible ending the show can offer. 

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59 minutes ago, Nocturne said:

R+L=J will matter in the show, as its painfully obvious that Dany won't survive the war that's coming with the dead. Jon will end up as king, and this will be at lest D&D's idea of a bittersweet ending: Dany gets it all, but ends up being dead in the end, Jon who  doesn't want to end up king,  ends up as one and probably marries someone out of duty and not love in the end.

I can see this happening but that goes for other scenarios.

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On 6/11/2017 at 3:13 PM, RhaenysB said:

Tyene would have whoever she likes without anybody's consent. Tyene is a free spirit. 

nope, I haven't. 

Nice!!!

I like the way you think!!

You should watch the movie "Savages."  It's a great film, with substantial parallels to what we are discussing.

Blake Lively is in it (not sure if you know who she is or not)

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9 hours ago, Cron said:

Nice!!!

I like the way you think!!

You should watch the movie "Savages."  It's a great film, with substantial parallels to what we are discussing.

Blake Lively is in it (not sure if you know who she is or not)

That must be an interesting concept :lol: I checked it out in IMDb when you mentioned it, on the first blink it looked kinda like The Counsellor. I might be totally wrong. 

Yeah, I know, gossip girl, Ryan Reynolds and some obscure shark movie. 

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On 6/13/2017 at 3:40 AM, RhaenysB said:

That must be an interesting concept :lol: I checked it out in IMDb when you mentioned it, on the first blink it looked kinda like The Counsellor. I might be totally wrong. 

Yeah, I know, gossip girl, Ryan Reynolds and some obscure shark movie. 

Yeah, the connection to what we were discussing with Tyene, Bronn and Pod is that in the movie "Savages," Blake Lively's character has two guys.

She loves them both, and they are very different, but they are very good friends themselves (in fact, the two guys are BEST friends, and they share Blake Lively's character knowingly and gladly she is not cheating on either of them)

Together, the two guys make "the perfect man" for her, and frankly that's how I'd see a three-way relationship between Tyene, Bronn and Pod, although to be honest, I'm not sure Tyene could handle both Bronn and Pod (unless Tyene is a nymphomaniac, I guess).

If you decide to watch the movie, let me know, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it, even by personal message if you so choose (since for us to get deeply into that would get well off-topic from these GOT discussion boards).  I loved the movie, gave it an A+ (it's got some really good twists at the end)

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18 minutes ago, Cron said:

Yeah, the connection to what we were discussing with Tyene, Bronn and Pod is that in the movie "Savages," Blake Lively's character has two guys.

She loves them both, and they are very different, but they are very good friends themselves (in fact, the two guys are BEST friends, and they share Blake Lively's character knowingly and gladly she is not cheating on either of them)

Together, the two guys make "the perfect man" for her, and frankly that's how I'd see a three-way relationship between Tyene, Bronn and Pod, although to be honest, I'm not sure Tyene could handle both Bronn and Pod (unless Tyene is a nymphomaniac, I guess).

If you decide to watch the movie, let me know, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it, even by personal message if you so choose (since for us to get deeply into that would get well off-topic from these GOT discussion boards).  I loved the movie, gave it an A+ (it's got some really good twists at the end)

I'll put that movie on the never ending Need to watch list. 

Sp Tyene gets Bronn and Pod, but what about Bronn? He needs two women to make the perfect woman too. how will he ever find peace and settle down without a good girl to complement Tyene? Or is that going to be Brienne? And Bronn will be the center of two love triangles? We need a spinoff about this. 

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Posted (edited)

22 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

I'll put that movie on the never ending Need to watch list. 

Sp Tyene gets Bronn and Pod, but what about Bronn? He needs two women to make the perfect woman too. how will he ever find peace and settle down without a good girl to complement Tyene? Or is that going to be Brienne? And Bronn will be the center of two love triangles? We need a spinoff about this. 

Hmmmm....great stuff, you are very spicy. and have brought the conversation full circle (since we were talking at some point about a tri-archy of Bronn, a good girl, and a bad "girl")!!!

Interestingly enough, we DO have evidence that Bronn is sexually attracted to Brienne. In fact, he DIRECTLY TELLS Pod that h would have sex with her (although in different words, HARR!!  That was the scene where Jaime and Brienne were meeting in the tent, and Bronn snuck up behind Pod, and asked him if he thought Jaime and Brienne were having sex).   So maybe you're right, maybe Bronn and Brienne would be a good match, too.  I'm not sure she would have sex with him, though.  Maybe, if Jaime was already dead.  What do you think?

Edited by Cron

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On Friday, June 02, 2017 at 3:06 AM, snow is the man said:

This still makes no sense. The white walkers have been portrayed as the big evil. Are we know supposed to believe they are just poor misunderstood creatures who just want a hug? The numbers of white walkers is very small in comparison to the dead they raise. I think what will happen is the night king is killed and then the dead that make up the bulk of the army die (well permenately) and then they finish up the white walkers with dragon glass,valyrian steel,and fire.

Please, never did I suggest that the Others are poor misunderstood creatures. I suggested that people won't be able to kill their way out of this one. I believe the Others are simply too big to kill and therefore a truce must be negotiated.

 

One way of doing this is to bond fire and ice in the form of Jon and Dany's child being offered to the Night King. Motherhood is such a massive theme in Dany's story and there has to be more to it. And then you have Jon with a Targaryen dad no one has the time to care about this late in the game. We know they will hook up and give birth to a "fire" baby. Add to this the weird plotline in Craster's Keep where babies were offered for the Night King in order to mantain peace. I can't help to think that there's a connection here and the story will end with the themes of ice and fire combining in the way it was implied in Craster's keep.

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6 hours ago, MakeThemBurn said:

Please, never did I suggest that the Others are poor misunderstood creatures. I suggested that people won't be able to kill their way out of this one. I believe the Others are simply too big to kill and therefore a truce must be negotiated.

 

One way of doing this is to bond fire and ice in the form of Jon and Dany's child being offered to the Night King. Motherhood is such a massive theme in Dany's story and there has to be more to it. And then you have Jon with a Targaryen dad no one has the time to care about this late in the game. We know they will hook up and give birth to a "fire" baby. Add to this the weird plotline in Craster's Keep where babies were offered for the Night King in order to mantain peace. I can't help to think that there's a connection here and the story will end with the themes of ice and fire combining in the way it was implied in Craster's keep.

I think this is impossible. Whenever we hear of the others all we see and hear is them killing people not trying to talk. I think there will be some secret thing that comes up and ends up causing them to go back into hibernation or whatever they did for 10000 years again.

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On Invalid Date at 9:14 AM, Nocturne said:

R+L=J will matter in the show, as its painfully obvious that Dany won't survive the war that's coming with the dead. Jon will end up as king, and this will be at lest D&D's idea of a bittersweet ending: Dany gets it all, but ends up being dead in the end, Jon who  doesn't want to end up king,  ends up as one and probably marries someone out of duty and not love in the end.

 

 

It was GRRM who said the ending was bittersweet.  D&D have said the ending was one of three shocking moments for them when GRRM told them how it would all end.

The ending in the show will be very close to that of the books.

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Posted (edited)

Well, how is Jon going to be able to prove to anyone who he is at this point? Even if we know it to be true, he looks like a Stark and unless Bran can somehow (if he survives) gathers enough lords together, joins hands, touches a heart tree and replays the whole back story of Rheagar and Lyanna, then how would it affect the potential owner/sitter of the Iron Throne when this is all done. Also, I have doubts of the survival of all major players on this show with the exception of the Imp, the showrunners love him too much to kill him.

Edited by A Ghost of Someone

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On 25/05/2017 at 4:42 AM, Aemon Targaryen said:

In the trailer, Jon and LF are in the WF crypts.  

The last time LF was there, he and Sansa spoke of Lyanna.  LF's reaction to Sansa telling the kidnap story seemed to indicate he knew that story was false.  That means he might know or suspect that Jon is Lyanna's son and perhaps not by rape. Ie LF knows RLJ.

Now we see Jon getting emotional with LF in front of Lyanna's statue -- perhaps LF first tells Jon that Ned is not his father ... before telling him about RLJ.

My first reaction, if this is true - what a letdown!  Wouldn't that somehow 'besmirch' R+L=J.  LF would merely be using RLJ to split Sansa and Jon, and perhaps undermine Jon being KitN.

But then ... what if that was GRRM's plan all along, or at least his plan from aCoK onwards --- that this great reveal is really nothing on the show?  I always took "you know nothing" to indirectly allude to RLJ ... but what if it is RLJ that is really nothing.  And just like Jon has already had a potentially shattering revelation about death and what lies on the other side ... and just like that, it's like so what - it's nothing.

The irony would be strong: the one person who is the rightful heir to the iron throne rejects his heritage, rejects the whole concept of heritage and rejects the throne, but saves the kingdom anyhow.

That is the ultimate f you to the whole feudal patriarchal primogeniture thing.  Jon chooses to define himself by his experiences and his actions.  He will always be a bastard, in his own mind, and always be Ned Stark's son.  The adopting parent is the real parent, not the birth parents.  I mean he has already died, before even learning about this.

(Also, if RLJ is so underplayed like this, it seems to increase the chance that AJT becomes the bigger dramatic reveal -- which relatively few people will know about or believe in ... which, in turn, makes me think that Tyrion is the ultimate "winner" of the whole series, who finally becomes the wise king at the end ... after Jon and Dany and the dragons (and many others) die.  Re-reading aCoK and Tyrion's time as hand, one can see Tyrion trying to be a wise, pragmatic ruler who is also subtly honourable and merciful ... better really than anyone else so far on the show).

Jon snow is not the rightful heir, he is not even a targaryen, he's a bastard even if Rhaegar was his father, because Rhaegar was already married at that point.

On 29/05/2017 at 5:44 PM, Lady Sansa's Direwolf said:

The reason R+L=J is important is because, it makes Jon the legitimate Tarygaryen heir, not Dany. But Jon will never identify with his Targ ancestry, he is a Stark in coloring and temperament. He is just as much a Stark as any of Ned and Cat's children, perhaps more so because it is the only name he identifies with.

It also makes Jon and Dany aunt and nephew, which reinforces the theory of the Targ line being reestablished. 

The question isn't about who Jon is, the question is, will Bran and Sam tell Jon once they discover the truth? With everything that is happening, I could see them withholding that information until the Great War is completed. Who knows, he might be the only one left standing who has even a remote claim to the title.

Jon is a bastard, Dany is the heir since she's a true born Targaryen and daughter of the king.

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1 hour ago, Yucef Menaerys said:

Jon snow is not the rightful heir, he is not even a targaryen, he's a bastard even if Rhaegar was his father, because Rhaegar was already married at that point.

Jon is a bastard, Dany is the heir since she's a true born Targaryen and daughter of the king.

Targs like poligamy... Besides, we have no idea if rhaegar or aerys have some kind of will for example.

But I don t think that the rightful heir will be important in the books or show because I can 't see danny Aegon or cersei giving a crap about the legitimacy of their claim. They simply want the throne and will discredit anyone with a better claim...

To me his parents will be important in order to have acces to some targ abilities/magic and to unify westeros because even if danny conquers westeros taking into account that Aegon already has the targ loyalists in his side and that danny has the allies with the worst fame possible nobody will like her.

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29 minutes ago, divica said:

Targs like poligamy... Besides, we have no idea if rhaegar or aerys have some kind of will for example.

But I don t think that the rightful heir will be important in the books or show because I can 't see danny Aegon or cersei giving a crap about the legitimacy of their claim. They simply want the throne and will discredit anyone with a better claim...

To me his parents will be important in order to have acces to some targ abilities/magic and to unify westeros because even if danny conquers westeros taking into account that Aegon already has the targ loyalists in his side and that danny has the allies with the worst fame possible nobody will like her.

Rhaegar has no authority to practice polygamy without the permission of the king, Prince Daemon Targaryen also wanted to practice polygamy so he asked the his brother the king Viserys I for permission and was refused, he didn't engage in polygamy afterwards. Polygamy isn't that common even in the Targaryen family, the last Targaryen to practice polygamy was Maegor and that was near the beginning of Targaryen rule and he faced difficulty even then.

Offcourse it's important, it will be a huge boost to any claimant if he/she can prove that he/she is the rightfull king/queen.

Sadly it seems Jon snow has not inherited any Targaryen magic ability although he has inherit the Stark first men gene for warging, if he had inherited any Targaryen magic blood we'd have noticed, he doesn't have any dragon dreams, prophetic dreams, isn't obsessed about dragons, does not seem to have any special affinity or tolerance to heat/fire etc it's as if he doesn't have any Targaryen blood. How will he unify Westeros because of his Targ blood? He's a bastard, unless if he would be legitimised by queen Daenerys as Jon Targaryen, besides I don't think Jon has any interest in ruling Westeros.

 

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27 minutes ago, Yucef Menaerys said:

Rhaegar has no authority to practice polygamy without the permission of the king, Prince Daemon Targaryen also wanted to practice polygamy so he asked the his brother the king Viserys I for permission and was refused, he didn't engage in polygamy afterwards. Polygamy isn't that common even in the Targaryen family, the last Targaryen to practice polygamy was Maegor and that was near the beginning of Targaryen rule and he faced difficulty even then.

Offcourse it's important, it will be a huge boost to any claimant if he/she can prove that he/she is the rightfull king/queen.

Sadly it seems Jon snow has not inherited any Targaryen magic ability although he has inherit the Stark first men gene for warging, if he had inherited any Targaryen magic blood we'd have noticed, he doesn't have any dragon dreams, prophetic dreams, isn't obsessed about dragons, does not seem to have any special affinity or tolerance to heat/fire etc it's as if he doesn't have any Targaryen blood. How will he unify Westeros because of his Targ blood? He's a bastard, unless if he would be legitimised by queen Daenerys as Jon Targaryen, besides I don't think Jon has any interest in ruling Westeros.

 

And if rhaegar found someone to marry him to lyanna or asked permission from aerys? we simply don t know and even if jon could prove it the other candidates to the throne will say it is fake or ilegal...

In regards to the targaryen magic he has had prophetic dreams. Right now I only remember the crypts dream that he has A LOT!! and the dream about using a flaming sword to kill wights... Besides this his spurts of super force might be related to his targ side... we haven t seen any other stark with that abilities...

To me he will unify westeros because he is in a position that can put him with good relations with several kingdoms (north, vale, wildlings and even the riverlands) and he can use those relations by stabilising westeros by becoming king, marrying danny or suporting her claim (any of these would serve)

 

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Posted (edited)

On 04/07/2017 at 4:00 PM, divica said:

And if rhaegar found someone to marry him to lyanna or asked permission from aerys? we simply don t know and even if jon could prove it the other candidates to the throne will say it is fake or ilegal...

In regards to the targaryen magic he has had prophetic dreams. Right now I only remember the crypts dream that he has A LOT!! and the dream about using a flaming sword to kill wights... Besides this his spurts of super force might be related to his targ side... we haven t seen any other stark with that abilities...

To me he will unify westeros because he is in a position that can put him with good relations with several kingdoms (north, vale, wildlings and even the riverlands) and he can use those relations by stabilising westeros by becoming king, marrying danny or suporting her claim (any of these would serve)

 

It's very unlikely that Rhaegar would have found someone that would marry him, only a Septon can get him married, since the targaryens technically follow the seven gods, and polygamy is forbidden on the faith of the seven, even if somehow some Septon went against the rules of his religion and married him that marriage would not be recognised by anyone, Aegon IV also had a mock marriage with a blacksmith's wife before he became king, and no one recognised that marriage either. You are taking leaps if you say Aerys might have permitted him, aerys as the king permitting him to do that would have to come out in public and declare it, besides at that point Aerys clearly didn't trust Rhaegar, why would he do something like that for him?

Not every prophetic dream is equivalent to targaryen prophetic dreams, targaryen ones are on a whole another level, many characters also have prophetic dreams even though they are not Targaryens like tyrion and the girl in Dorne from the arriane chapter (I can't remember her name) and the ghost of high heart, all of these clearly aren't targaryens. Targaryen prophetic dreams are more precise or clear and  in some cases involve dragons, remember the dreams of Daeron targaryen and Daemon Blackfyre from dunk and egg series, if you don't remember them go and re-read them.

I'm sorry but I know you are trying to make Jon into this heroic messianic figure that will unite Westeros and basically do whatever he likes, this isn't how GRRM writes stories, he isin't Tolkien or Brandon Sanderson. Jon is isn't in any position to unite the 7K, sue he has the north but he doesn't have the support of the Vale or any other region for that matter, many of the powerful houses would never unite behind a mere bastard and follow him.

Edited by Yucef Menaerys

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