Castlevania on Netflix

[Pliskin]

It was a good introduction to the story. Do you need everything in the first 70 minutes of the show?

Plenty happened actually and set the stage for the hunt.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

9 hours ago, Pliskin said:

It was a good introduction to the story. Do you need everything in the first 70 minutes of the show?

Plenty happened actually and set the stage for the hunt.

I think this is precisely the problem. Plenty happened to set the stage. This is a good setup episode--like an extra long intro episode or something. If we had more episodes coming in a week by week, then yeah, this might be exciting and fun. But to call this a new series? No way. This is an extended pilot. And the music needs some serious work.

And babies in monsters mouth. Really edgy. It needs some work. Trevor is fun, Alucard seems well portrayed, and Sypha is interesting, but the writer has this huge online diatribe about how dumb Grant DaNasty (from the third game) is and why he wouldn't use that character because he's a pirate with a dumb name. It's kind of embarrassing for this writer as the name, likely, is a poor translation from Japanese to American in the 80s, and is probably Danesti--one of the great historic houses of Wallachia. It's not a stoooopid name, it's historic. On top of that, he's not a pirate, he's a Romani caricature--it's up to him to update that art style.

Whatever. This show has potential--but I feel like they made a long pilot and wanted to rush it out for some reason. It has eight more episodes ordered, I hear. It really needs those right away.

[Pliskin]

Good animation is very expensive, I can't personally hold it against Netflix to gauge the field with a few episodes to see if people are interested. It's not your usual kid friendly animated show. Or adult comedy. This is a usually a niche audience, something that is rarely done in the west. Netflix probably noticed that their anime are quite successful and said why not do the same in America, but still weren't sure it would work.

I'm just confused as to why you first criticized the show for being bad, then admitting that it's good, but that there should be more episodes. That's two different things entirely.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

3 hours ago, Pliskin said:

Good animation is very expensive, I can't personally hold it against Netflix to gauge the field with a few episodes to see if people are interested. It's not your usual kid friendly animated show. Or adult comedy. This is a usually a niche audience, something that is rarely done in the west. Netflix probably noticed that their anime are quite successful and said why not do the same in America, but still weren't sure it would work.

I'm just confused as to why you first criticized the show for being bad, then admitting that it's good, but that there should be more episodes. That's two different things entirely.

I criticized it for nothing happening--and to be precise--nothing happened in terms of a show labeled as the first season of a new show. This is a pilot. Nothing more. If it had been labeled as such, "Hey we're releasing the pilot six months early to gauge interest," then I wouldn't have watched. I would have waited. Because that's never going to be satisfying for me. 

Plus: no werewolves, Grim Reaper, etc. Plus no classic music. Plus ridiculous gore being thought of as "adult."

[The Marquis de Leech]

From what I understand, the next season will be eight episodes.

Personally, I was fine with this. 

[Centrist Simon Steele]

1 hour ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

From what I understand, the next season will be eight episodes.

Personally, I was fine with this. 

I heard this too--but it won't be released until 2018? I really feel like this is a strange way to go. The first four episodes should have been held for those, in my opinion. But what else can I say? People seem pleased. I have always loved Castlevania. I'm disappointed this is the first Castlevania themed media that not only bored me but didn't leave me wanting more. I remember Lords of Shadow and it's ending being a cliff hanger. I loved it. I suppose that's because I felt like the story had a full arc and was setting up something bigger. I haven't given up on this--it is Castlevania. But I was really let down--and I wasn't even expecting much.

[Liver and Onions]

I'll admit I haven't kept up with Castlevania lore much after Symphony of the Night, but this seems to be based on Castlevania III from what I can tell (?).

I enjoyed this. Loved the voice acting (Trevor is great), and I appreciate that they used their animation budget wisely for the fight scenes. I agree it felt like the first volume of an old-school anime OVA than a TV season. It's enough to get you invested in the series. I'd say that I hope they get more out before 2018, but it's not all that far away, is it... dang, how time flies.

(and if I may put on my feminist critic hat for a moment  )  a HUGE thank you for an overall lack of sexual violence against female characters, something that features all too much in the supernatural fantasy scene in older anime productions. (I know this isn't technically anime, but...) I didn't really expect it here, but this production reminded me a lot of Vampire Hunter D and other stuff from the 80s/early 90s era of anime released in the US. So I was mired in nostalgia while remembering how annoying and unnecessary the sexualized violence was in those. 

And I agree, when I realized Warren Ellis was writing, I thought, "most of this show is going to take place in a pub, right?"  

[red snow]

should really wait until I've seen all 4 episodes but I enjoyed ep2 more than ep1 but I guess each episode was focusing on different leads so a potentially interesting structure (but maybe not for a 4 episode show) and a case of me warming to Belmont moreso than Dracula. Again that's probably intentional.

The animation is good (except for what looks like bad lip syncing) with surprisingly inventive and detailed levels of gore. Pretty good voice acting as well which is maybe to be expected given the actors they chose. But still weird and distracting with the lip movement. I would have put it down to the animation being done overseas but this seems to be a genuine North American production.

I don't know anything about the game other than it looked cool but I never got my hands on the SNES version. Seems like a good game to adapt though.

 

[Week]

On 7/8/2017 at 2:17 PM, Simon Steele said:

I criticized it for nothing happening--and to be precise--nothing happened in terms of a show labeled as the first season of a new show. This is a pilot. Nothing more. If it had been labeled as such, "Hey we're releasing the pilot six months early to gauge interest," then I wouldn't have watched. I would have waited. Because that's never going to be satisfying for me. 

Plus: no werewolves, Grim Reaper, etc. Plus no classic music. Plus ridiculous gore being thought of as "adult."

I hadn't really followed the announcement or buzz around the show and found myself shocked that it ended after episode 4. It seems like enough had happened that the story could get interesting ... but then it ended. Would have liked to see a bit more -- or less frankly. I'd rather get less at the start and have them course-correct (if necessary) and deliver the rest of the season sooner.

[red snow]

2 hours ago, Week said:

I hadn't really followed the announcement or buzz around the show and found myself shocked that it ended after episode 4. It seems like enough had happened that the story could get interesting ... but then it ended. Would have liked to see a bit more -- or less frankly. I'd rather get less at the start and have them course-correct (if necessary) and deliver the rest of the season sooner.

The release style is a tricky one given Netflix's image. People expect whole seasons.This could have worked as part of the "amazon pilot" scheme and there'd have been less resistance.

I guess when they have shows like "Death Note" and "Attack on Titan" they perform well for licensed shows but maybe not well enough for it to be risk free funding a non-japanese animated show? So I can understand them doing a pilot run. Maybe they could have maintained their image by doing this as a "Netflix Original Movie" or series of movies but then they'd have to play with the format.

The fact they ordered the next 8 means the initial reception must have been good. 2018 isn't too long a turn around if they have to make all 8 episodes.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

1 hour ago, Triskan said:

GQ is not impressed.

" I am sorry to say that it does not. If I had hopes for Netflix’s Castlevania, that's only because it seemed like such an easy layup. Drop a whip-wielding dude (or lady!) named Belmont in a big maze-like castle. Spend four episodes with said Belmont dueling monsters and having cryptic conversations with Alucard and Death and Charon and the rest of Castlevania’s grab-bag of characters from mythology and weird fiction. Set the whole thing to a badass metal soundtrack—at least get the rights to “Vampire Killer”—and end it all with a big fight with a gloriously hammy Dracula, who loses and disappears with his castle, to reemerge in 100 years and fight a different Belmont for Season Two."

I mean it seems so simple. These are exactly my issues with it.

"Anyway, like you said, Castlevania doesn't even begin to feel complete. It's like if I invited you over for a barbecue, handed you a hot dog I cooked on the stove, and then promptly went for a nap, telling you to come back in a year for some actual grilling. It's such a strangely frivolous tease. Are we being negged by a cartoon?"

Haha, this is exactly the problem. Here's your hot dog, we'll cook it next year.

[Martini Sigil]

I would love to see this live action... i watched it, and liked it, although I'm not a big animation fan...  But this could be an epic show if it were done correctly

[red snow]

finished it. I thought it was ok. I think Armitage added a lot to Belmont as I preferred it when he was the focus.

I guess some elements relied on familiarity with the games as wasn't really sure about dracula's son - especially from his initial appearance.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

On 7/13/2017 at 10:34 PM, Triskan said:

Wired on the show and a bit about video game adaptations.

It just occurred to me that I think that I have a Playstation 1 with Symphony of the Night tucked away somewhere and want to break it out.  But I really wish that I had a regular Nintendo with the 1st three games.  It's been so long, but I think I beat III one time and that it was one of the hardest games I've ever beaten in my life and never beat I.  II is not all that difficult in my opinion.

ETA:  Beating I was a huge challenge which I never pulled off. I often made it to the Grim Reaper but rarely won which, to me, added some serious gravitas to the game.  I think that I only once made it to Dracula and obviously didn't win.  

For those that played III, did you go with Grant, Sypha, or Alucard (or stick with Belmont)?

The second was always my favorite because it caught my imagination, so when part 3 went back to "basics" (of course much expanded from the first), I was always bummed. I kind of wonder if this is why I never beat it. I tried to beat it with all three additional characters at different points but found the game terribly difficult. I suppose I never beat the Grim Reaper in the first one either, now that you mention it.

Sypha was cool because of her magic, and Grant always was fun because he could crawl on ceilings. Alucard felt useless--so when he comes back as such as badass in Symphony of the Night I was shocked.

My head-cannon, for years, always said that Alucard betrayed you in the end of the game (if you got that far), so that's why I used him the least. I think I got this from Captain N--when Alucard showed up as a skateboarding, bad attitude teenager who betrayed the team.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

10 hours ago, Triskan said:

Yeah, Alucard sucks in III if you ask me.  Sypha's special weapons (magics) are so good that she's tough just on that account.  Grant's attacks are pretty weak, but his improved mobility is really great in that it addresses one of the great flaws of these first three Castlevania games for NES:  that the controls suck.  Seriously, the threat of accidental death by falling is so great is a really unfortunate flaw.  

I swear that many years ago in 1 I actually got to Dracula but got absolutely owned.  

2 is pretty fun in the way it's open-ended and has the day-night contrast and all of that.  It's a little more Zelda-esque even though it's still technically side-to-side.  

 

ETA:  Per your comment upthread, the Castlevania games really do tend to have great music, and that's another flaw of the show.  It really ought to have good music.  I mean, Symphony of the Night, right?  

YES! Symphony

 of

the

Night!

And Bloody Tears and all its iterations: 1, 2, 3

That's a lot of fun. 

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

I've sadly never played the game in my entire life. Shameful.

But the show was reasonable, maybe there is some potential inside of it, but it these 4 episodes were grindingly slow, and didn't really need to spend all that time setting things up. Trevor Belmont is an obvious reluctant hero and there doesn't seem to be much else about him.

The swearing seemed a little off as well, didn't seem to suit the show.

[Liver and Onions]

On 7/15/2017 at 0:48 AM, Simon Steele said:

My head-cannon, for years, always said that Alucard betrayed you in the end of the game (if you got that far), so that's why I used him the least. I think I got this from Captain N--when Alucard showed up as a skateboarding, bad attitude teenager who betrayed the team.

I suppose even if this show isn't one's cup of tea, it is at least an improvement over Simon Belmont's appearance in Captain N. 

[Liver and Onions]

On 7/15/2017 at 11:57 AM, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

I've sadly never played the game in my entire life. Shameful.

But the show was reasonable, maybe there is some potential inside of it, but it these 4 episodes were grindingly slow, and didn't really need to spend all that time setting things up. Trevor Belmont is an obvious reluctant hero and there doesn't seem to be much else about him.

The swearing seemed a little off as well, didn't seem to suit the show.

I rewatched the four episodes with friends who are also familiar with Warren Ellis' work, and every swear had them saying, "Yep, sounds like Ellis." It also reminds me of 90's anime dubs of more "adult" oriented stuff where they'd throw in curse words all over the place because, I suppose, they could (although the cursing here felt more natural than those older shows, which are kind of hilarious especially when compared with the original Japanese dialogue.)