US Politics: Mueller....Mueller....Mueller...

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

18 minutes ago, WinterFox said:

I thought you no longer identified with that crowd.

Regardless.  You aren't "crazy" for believing in limited government.

[The Wedge]

My brother is a reporter / columnist for a newspaper  in a mid-sized conservative midwestern city.  It's amazing the abuse he puts up with from readers for simply doing his job reporting on events.  The letters and phone messages are filled with vitriol.  He takes it all in stride and is frankly thankful that anyone is reading a newspaper these days.

It is disturbing and worrying to me, though.  I wish I had his chutzpah to ask the hard questions to his local reps, as well as to civic leaders and the local major university's president (a former governor of the state).  It's thankless, but I'm thankful he does it.

That said, screw anyone who thinks a reporter asking questions is deserving of assault and battery.  I hope it becomes a millstone around Gianforte's time in Washington and he becomes ineffectual for it.  He's up again in 2018, right?

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Altherion said:

Yes, of course. Freedom of the press is not a license to constantly insult someone and find fault with their actions no matter what they do. I have not heard of this Montana politician prior to the scuffle, but the press is doing the same thing to certain national politicians and they're pretty blatant about it. I suspect the same thing was going on in Montana. Here's a quote from a CNN article:

This is not to say that I agree with the action -- Gianforte definitely should not have done it -- but I understand why he did it and why many people support him.

Now this is hilariously funny.

One of the things the right has complained about, lately, is the left’s intrusions into free speech. At times, believe it or not, I’ve been inclined to agree with the right on this matter. I’m no fan of some of the post-modernist nonsense that seemingly guides some on the left’s of view of free speech.

But, if the right is serious about free speech and is not being just utterly cynical here, then surely that means the right and Republicans and conservatives must be willing to take criticism. And a heavy dose of it.

They can’t have it both ways. They can't on one hand complain about the left’s intrusions into free speech, imagined or real, and then on the other hand start whining when people start asking them questions and are critical of their policy positions.

That reporter did nothing wrong by asking Gianforte a question about that fucked up healthcare bill. He did his job.

You're excuse making for Gianforte here is utter horseshit.

[Zorral]

4 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Now this is hilariously funny.

One of the things the right has complained about, lately, is the left’s intrusions into free speech. At times, believe it or not, I’ve been inclined to agree with the right on this matter. I’m no fan of some of the post-modernist nonsense that seemingly guides some on the left’s of view of free speech.

But, if the right is serious about free speech and is not being just utterly cynical here, then surely that means the right and Republicans and conservatives must be willing to take criticism. And a heavy dose of it.

They can’t have it both ways. They have not right on one hand to complain about the left’s intrusions into free speech, imagined or real, and then on the other hand start whining when people start asking them questions and are critical of their policy positions.

That reporter did nothing wrong by asking Gianforte a question about that fucked up healthcare bill. He did his job.

You're excuse making for Gianforte here is utter horseshit.

[Kalbear]

15 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Regardless.  You aren't "crazy" for believing in limited government.

You are, however, for believing that it is more important that people hold on to their property than it is to fund social programs on a moral level. Similarly, you are for thinking that it's far worse of a crime to be taxed than it is to let people die for lack of food or clothing.

[denstorebog]

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott showed off his target sheet at a gun range and appeared to joke about shooting reporters, saying "I’m gonna carry this around in case I see any reporters."

That's right, Gianforte has just shown Republicans that promoting one of the central steps towards a fascist state is an effective way to curry favor with the voters. This is gonna be a new norm.

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, denstorebog said:

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott showed off his target sheet at a gun range and appeared to joke about shooting reporters, saying "I’m gonna carry this around in case I see any reporters."

That's right, Gianforte has just shown Republicans that promoting one of the central steps towards a fascist state is an effective way to curry favor with the voters. This is gonna be a new norm.

And we have another Ted Nugent, it would seem.  Another Republican "tough guy" whose probably just a coward.

Somebody should have ask this clown will he shoot at reporters so long as they aren't capable of shooting back? And if they are will he crap his pants too?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

37 minutes ago, Altherion said:

That's pretty funny. For some reason, I get more Planned Parenthood ads than anything else. Looks like the ad algorithms need some tuning for sites with diverse points of view.

Yes, of course. Freedom of the press is not a license to constantly insult someone and find fault with their actions no matter what they do. I have not heard of this Montana politician prior to the scuffle, but the press is doing the same thing to certain national politicians and they're pretty blatant about it. I suspect the same thing was going on in Montana. Here's a quote from a CNN article:

This is not to say that I agree with the action -- Gianforte definitely should not have done it -- but I understand why he did it and why many people support him.

But see, what you're describing is not what's actually happening. It's one thing to say that you understand why Peter Thiel  made it his mission to destroy Gawker, but it's another to say you can understand why Republicans approve of a candidate for Congress beating up a reporter after he asked a benign question.

And that person's quote is a perfect encapsulation of why this country is doomed. "I believe it, therefore it's true." 

[Altherion]

10 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

One of the things the right has complained about, lately, is the left’s intrusions into free speech. At times, believe it or not, I’ve been inclined to agree with the right on this matter. I’m no fan of some of the post-modernist nonsense that seemingly guides some on the left’s of view of free speech.

But, if the right is serious about free speech and is not being just utterly cynical here, then surely that means the right and Republicans and conservatives must be willing to take criticism. And a heavy dose of it.

They can’t have it both ways. They can't on one hand complain about the left’s intrusions into free speech, imagined or real, and then on the other hand start whining when people start asking them questions and are critical of their policy positions.

I think we're past the stage where people genuinely care about free speech. It's obvious that the elites will not protect it in some instances so the masses are not going to be too upset when it is violated in others. The moral landscape is simplifying itself...

[Fez]

26 minutes ago, denstorebog said:

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott showed off his target sheet at a gun range and appeared to joke about shooting reporters, saying "I’m gonna carry this around in case I see any reporters."

That's right, Gianforte has just shown Republicans that promoting one of the central steps towards a fascist state is an effective way to curry favor with the voters. This is gonna be a new norm.

Considering Gianforte did quite a bit worse among election day voters than among early voters, that's probably the wrong message for Republicans to be taking. Though I agree that some will . Abbott's always been an idiot though.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

8 minutes ago, Altherion said:

I think we're past the stage where people genuinely care about free speech. It's obvious that the elites will not protect it in some instances so the masses are not going to be too upset when it is violated in others. The moral landscape is simplifying itself...

Simplifying itself? When truth you don't like is called Fake? When you can somehow justify assault because you were asked a question you didn't care for? The moral landscape is eating itself. 

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Altherion said:

I think we're past the stage where people genuinely care about free speech. It's obvious that the elites will not protect it in some instances so the masses are not going to be too upset when it is violated in others. The moral landscape is simplifying itself...

Um maybe that's how you feel, but not me. I do care about free speech. And I believe others do as well.

Also, even if you're right, and I hope you're not, at a minimum, this would seem to demonstrate just a tad bit of hypocrisy by the right on this issue.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

23 minutes ago, Fez said:

Considering Gianforte did quite a bit worse among election day voters than among early voters, that's probably the wrong message for Republicans to be taking. Though I agree that some will . Abbott's always been an idiot though.

Idk. I suspect it was popular with the base, and in modern Republican politics, that's all that matters. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

Idk. I suspect it was popular with the base, and in modern Republican politics, that's all that matters. 

We have officially entered the age of WWE politics...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMKFIHRpe7I

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

4 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

We have officially entered the age of WWE politics...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMKFIHRpe7I

 

We've been there for a few years... sadly.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

4 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

We've been there for a few years... sadly.

Nothing like this though. We're ramping up to Wrestlemania 2018 baby! It's gonna be YUGE. Bigly even. Much Winning.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

14 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

We have officially entered the age of WWE politics...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMKFIHRpe7I

 

Idiocracy's premise is happening sooner than expected. 

ETA:

And if we're going to have pro wrestling in our politics, can it at least be the fun kind? I know many of us here in MN had fun with the old"Our Governor can beat up your Governor"  bit.

[Sivin]

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Regardless.  You aren't "crazy" for believing in limited government.

I didn't say they were. 

I suggested they had a mental disability.

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

You are, however, for believing that it is more important that people hold on to their property than it is to fund social programs on a moral level. Similarly, you are for thinking that it's far worse of a crime to be taxed than it is to let people die for lack of food or clothing.

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

In 2015, a crack commando unit was formed by an insane New York Real-Estate Developer and undercover Orangutan in an effort to get himself elected President of the United States of America. These men promptly colluded with a contentious foreign government, and proceeded to occupy the White House. Today, still wanted by the very government they are supposed to serve, they survive by lying, subverting the Free Press, and conning rubes. If you have a problem, and no one else can help, you can go fuck yourself, cause these guys couldn't give a hairy rat's ass about you. Seriously, you really have no business wanting to hire THE A-TEAM...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/26/steve-bannon-to-head-trumps-russia-war-room-legal-team-street-fighters-and-surrogates.html?ICID=ref_fark

[Altherion]

45 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Um maybe that's how you feel, but not me. I do care about free speech. And I believe others do as well.

Also, even if you're right, and I hope you're not, at a minimum, this would seem to demonstrate just a tad bit of hypocrisy by the right on this issue.

Some people still care, yes, but the left and right no longer do and the middle is being hollowed out. And yes, the people who support Gianforte's actions while criticizing the attacks on conservative speakers at universities are just as hypocritical as the people who are attacking Gianforte now but supported the punching of Spencer. Logical consistency doesn't have much value anymore beyond one's side being right and the opposite side being wrong.

46 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Simplifying itself? When truth you don't like is called Fake? When you can somehow justify assault because you were asked a question you didn't care for? The moral landscape is eating itself. 

You can call it that too. My point was that tribalism is taking over and all of these niceties matter less and less.

20 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

We have officially entered the age of WWE politics...

To be fair, quite a few Presidents were wrestlers. The most famous one is Abraham Lincoln.